Anonymous wrote:How is tenure and/or length of service calculated for the purposes of a federal RIF? Say I only have 1 year at my current job in the excepted service (so on probation) but have over 4 years preexisting service in the competitive service? Does that prior service count for anything or am I bottom of heap?

Anonymous wrote:How is tenure and/or length of service calculated for the purposes of a federal RIF? Say I only have 1 year at my current job in the excepted service (so on probation) but have over 4 years preexisting service in the competitive service? Does that prior service count for anything or am I bottom of heap?

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Anonymous wrote:then, the possibility is the division will be left with a few older folks, losing younger high performers. is that what the managers want? is government efficiency achieved?

We got plenty of young low performers and older high performers. Age alone is not the only factor. And that’s how the process works. If you want older workers out, the Fork offer is as good as it gets.

It’s not though. The older workers get more severance with a RIF due to more time in service and being older.

Out of 8 taking the fork in my office, all 8 would have survived if we had a RIF instead because they are older workers with many years of experience.

My point was that if you're going to be without a job, older workers get more money from being RIFed and getting the severance than they would if they had taken the Fork.

if you are retirement eligible you get no severance with rif but with fork you get 8 months of pay regardless and can retire right after

A federal judge paused fork and may rule that it is illegal on Monday. No money has been appropriated for Fork buyouts and I highly doubt that the Republicans will fund Fork in March when they try to pass a budget through cloture.

Think about the immorality of what you are doing by lying.

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Anonymous wrote:The RIP regs will give more retention credits for those who've been in federal service longer, so seniority almost always wins in general

But will senority matter much if they target specific parts of an agency to cut rather than doing an agency wide cut? Can they just say, hey, let's cut all of the training dept, RIF them all, couldn't they do this to get rid of a lot of people at one time?

Those folks who got cut will have bumping rights in many cases. And that’s where things get complicated

what are 'bumping rights'?

If I am a 801 getting RIF but also have 10 years of prior experience in 1301 series and if you are in 1301 series but only has 5 years of experience, I could bump you out of your slot even though we are currently in different series

So....bumping to KEEP the job. Are there bumping rights toward getting the RIF and severance?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The RIP regs will give more retention credits for those who've been in federal service longer, so seniority almost always wins in general

But will senority matter much if they target specific parts of an agency to cut rather than doing an agency wide cut? Can they just say, hey, let's cut all of the training dept, RIF them all, couldn't they do this to get rid of a lot of people at one time?

Those folks who got cut will have bumping rights in many cases. And that’s where things get complicated

what are 'bumping rights'?

If I am a 801 getting RIF but also have 10 years of prior experience in 1301 series and if you are in 1301 series but only has 5 years of experience, I could bump you out of your slot even though we are currently in different series

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The RIP regs will give more retention credits for those who've been in federal service longer, so seniority almost always wins in general

But will senority matter much if they target specific parts of an agency to cut rather than doing an agency wide cut? Can they just say, hey, let's cut all of the training dept, RIF them all, couldn't they do this to get rid of a lot of people at one time?

Those folks who got cut will have bumping rights in many cases. And that’s where things get complicated

what are 'bumping rights'?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:then, the possibility is the division will be left with a few older folks, losing younger high performers. is that what the managers want? is government efficiency achieved?

We got plenty of young low performers and older high performers. Age alone is not the only factor. And that’s how the process works. If you want older workers out, the Fork offer is as good as it gets.

It’s not though. The older workers get more severance with a RIF due to more time in service and being older.

Out of 8 taking the fork in my office, all 8 would have survived if we had a RIF instead because they are older workers with many years of experience.

Ok and...are you one of Mao's band of college students that want to eat (literally, yes they did) the older and experienced?

But anyway...would even these 8 survive if a RIF eliminated an entire dept? Can't an agency just say RIF a particular area and say all the people in it are gone, given that agency didn't designate a number of people to retain?

I don’t know what you mean. I am one of 8. I survived one RIF many years ago. Your bottom question was answered up thread- they have bumping rights so they will bump out younger workers providing folks have the same job series.

Yes...my point was, what if the agency gets rid of the entire job series?

Then they are RIF unless they have prior experience in other job series. Like I said with all the bumping and retreating rights, it gets confusing and complicated. Good luck

But with a hiring freeze, where are they supposed to go?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:then, the possibility is the division will be left with a few older folks, losing younger high performers. is that what the managers want? is government efficiency achieved?

We got plenty of young low performers and older high performers. Age alone is not the only factor. And that’s how the process works. If you want older workers out, the Fork offer is as good as it gets.

It’s not though. The older workers get more severance with a RIF due to more time in service and being older.

Out of 8 taking the fork in my office, all 8 would have survived if we had a RIF instead because they are older workers with many years of experience.

My point was that if you're going to be without a job, older workers get more money from being RIFed and getting the severance than they would if they had taken the Fork.

if you are retirement eligible you get no severance with rif but with fork you get 8 months of pay regardless and can retire right after

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:then, the possibility is the division will be left with a few older folks, losing younger high performers. is that what the managers want? is government efficiency achieved?

We got plenty of young low performers and older high performers. Age alone is not the only factor. And that’s how the process works. If you want older workers out, the Fork offer is as good as it gets.

It’s not though. The older workers get more severance with a RIF due to more time in service and being older.

Out of 8 taking the fork in my office, all 8 would have survived if we had a RIF instead because they are older workers with many years of experience.

My point was that if you're going to be without a job, older workers get more money from being RIFed and getting the severance than they would if they had taken the Fork.

if you are retirement eligible you get no severance with rif but with fork you get 8 months of pay regardless and can retire right after

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:then, the possibility is the division will be left with a few older folks, losing younger high performers. is that what the managers want? is government efficiency achieved?

We got plenty of young low performers and older high performers. Age alone is not the only factor. And that’s how the process works. If you want older workers out, the Fork offer is as good as it gets.

It’s not though. The older workers get more severance with a RIF due to more time in service and being older.

Out of 8 taking the fork in my office, all 8 would have survived if we had a RIF instead because they are older workers with many years of experience.

My point was that if you're going to be without a job, older workers get more money from being RIFed and getting the severance than they would if they had taken the Fork.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The RIP regs will give more retention credits for those who've been in federal service longer, so seniority almost always wins in general

But will senority matter much if they target specific parts of an agency to cut rather than doing an agency wide cut? Can they just say, hey, let's cut all of the training dept, RIF them all, couldn't they do this to get rid of a lot of people at one time?

Those folks who got cut will have bumping rights in many cases. And that’s where things get complicated

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:then, the possibility is the division will be left with a few older folks, losing younger high performers. is that what the managers want? is government efficiency achieved?

We got plenty of young low performers and older high performers. Age alone is not the only factor. And that’s how the process works. If you want older workers out, the Fork offer is as good as it gets.

It’s not though. The older workers get more severance with a RIF due to more time in service and being older.

Out of 8 taking the fork in my office, all 8 would have survived if we had a RIF instead because they are older workers with many years of experience.