Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a s/o of the Duke vs Northwestern post below.

Here is what I've noticed at our selective NYC public:

--Top 10% or high stats + hook: HYP + Columbia + Penn (Wharton, VIPER or Engineering) .
--High stats, missing national level ECs or hook: Duke, Georgetown, Northwestern, Brown, Penn
--High stats + normal ECs OR some flaw on their record (like a bad grade or two) - Cornell, Chicago, JHU - these kids do very well with ED to the latter two.
--Mid to lower stats + no hook - public school or T50 possibly with merit. Most parents won't pay full for that level.

S and M are rare (most commonly high stats URM); no one gets into Dart or Vandy, for whatever reason

Curious if this is similar to other selective/feeder schools.

Top Boston day school:
The tiers are almost exactly the same as above.
Columbia is much easier than the above , move it down and add Stanford to the top and MIT but MIT lately only takes minorities.
Add Dartmouth to the cornell chicago jhu group, they love our school.

We have a lot of athletes that get recruited to ivies and they are excluded from the scatterplots so no one knows their stats but they do not take the hardest courses usually.

UCLA and UCB and Michigan and UVA OOS take kids who are above average but not top 10% as well as top kids and are used as targets for top kids.

BC and Wake and NYU love our school and below average kids get in all the time. These are considered safeties for the top kids.

Our school is a test-in private day school which has a 25th-75th SAT range on the profile as 1400-1510. In other words a quarter of the school is 1510+.

Below average at that school is quite impressive overall; not surprising they do well. Interesting TJ has similar to higher SAT distribution and yet does not do nearly as well as your Boston private as far as admissions go. Some schools are just feeders it is what it is.

duke again disgustingly overrated on here

BC is a safety at our school but it's a jesuit HS and BC loves our kids. Some college lists for top kids are HYP and BC or ND or Georgetown. And nothing else. And the HS is fine with that list.

test-in private .. that's interesting

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a s/o of the Duke vs Northwestern post below.

Here is what I've noticed at our selective NYC public:

--Top 10% or high stats + hook: HYP + Columbia + Penn (Wharton, VIPER or Engineering) .
--High stats, missing national level ECs or hook: Duke, Georgetown, Northwestern, Brown, Penn
--High stats + normal ECs OR some flaw on their record (like a bad grade or two) - Cornell, Chicago, JHU - these kids do very well with ED to the latter two.
--Mid to lower stats + no hook - public school or T50 possibly with merit. Most parents won't pay full for that level.

S and M are rare (most commonly high stats URM); no one gets into Dart or Vandy, for whatever reason

Curious if this is similar to other selective/feeder schools.

Top Boston day school:
The tiers are almost exactly the same as above.
Columbia is much easier than the above , move it down and add Stanford to the top and MIT but MIT lately only takes minorities.
Add Dartmouth to the cornell chicago jhu group, they love our school.

We have a lot of athletes that get recruited to ivies and they are excluded from the scatterplots so no one knows their stats but they do not take the hardest courses usually.

UCLA and UCB and Michigan and UVA OOS take kids who are above average but not top 10% as well as top kids and are used as targets for top kids.

BC and Wake and NYU love our school and below average kids get in all the time. These are considered safeties for the top kids.

Our school is a test-in private day school which has a 25th-75th SAT range on the profile as 1400-1510. In other words a quarter of the school is 1510+.

Let me guess: your kid is going to Wake.

Anonymous wrote:The part about edited scattergrams - that depends on school. We see it all. QuestBridge kids can get in with a bit lower scores, but GPA is always up there. It's the athletes that are the outliers. A 3.6 and a 1350 to Princeton, etc. You actually have other pinch out the Scattergram to see their dot way over there. (we have few enough of both QB and athletes, the kids know which is which. our school isn't that big)

Interesting that someone said Dartmouth takes nobody from their school. Same! As a result, they get very few apps from our school so it could be chicken-egg.

And Columbia ED is a much easier admit than in first post. It's not top level as far as admissions. (these are all great schools of course. just talking admissions stats)

++

Anonymous wrote:This is a s/o of the Duke vs Northwestern post below.

Here is what I've noticed at our selective NYC public:

--Top 10% or high stats + hook: HYP + Columbia + Penn (Wharton, VIPER or Engineering) .
--High stats, missing national level ECs or hook: Duke, Georgetown, Northwestern, Brown, Penn
--High stats + normal ECs OR some flaw on their record (like a bad grade or two) - Cornell, Chicago, JHU - these kids do very well with ED to the latter two.
--Mid to lower stats + no hook - public school or T50 possibly with merit. Most parents won't pay full for that level.

S and M are rare (most commonly high stats URM); no one gets into Dart or Vandy, for whatever reason

Curious if this is similar to other selective/feeder schools.

Top Boston day school:
The tiers are almost exactly the same as above.
Columbia is much easier than the above , move it down and add Stanford to the top and MIT but MIT lately only takes minorities.
Add Dartmouth to the cornell chicago jhu group, they love our school.

We have a lot of athletes that get recruited to ivies and they are excluded from the scatterplots so no one knows their stats but they do not take the hardest courses usually.

UCLA and UCB and Michigan and UVA OOS take kids who are above average but not top 10% as well as top kids and are used as targets for top kids.

BC and Wake and NYU love our school and below average kids get in all the time. These are considered safeties for the top kids.

Our school is a test-in private day school which has a 25th-75th SAT range on the profile as 1400-1510. In other words a quarter of the school is 1510+.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At DC’s private school, over the past couple of years:

Top 10 percent: Harvard, Yale, Duke, Chicago, etc.
Next decile: Stanford, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Vanderbilt, Chicago, etc.
Next decile: Michigan, UVA, BC, etc.

Chicago ED belongs in thr 3rd or below decile, Duke in the second and Stanford in the first.

Even if the schools don't technically rank, we all know these insights are off. The kids outside the top 10%, even at the top DC schools, are not regularly getting admitted to almost any of the schools in the next decile without a real hook (there are plenty of threads where parents complain about it).

At our private just outside of DC, the second decile kids (known because they announce two different groups for cum lade, top 10% and next 10%), absolutely get in to Chicago ED as well as Northwestern, Vandy , Duke ED, Penn CAS ED, Brown ED, Dartmouth ED all UN-Hooked. EVERY year at least a couple of these. Do more come from the top decile yes of course but the second decile gets them in if they have top rigor. Vandy ED has taken unhookeds from 3rd decile too, as did one of the Columbia-GS overseas programs one year, and as did WashU too, ED.
3rd decile regularly gets into UVA in state. The top 25% of our school has a 1450+. It is not a typical school. The OP probably has a similar school.

The only people at our non dmv highly ranked private that get into Stanford are nationally ranked athletes who are also significantly above the norm on academics- ie 1 or 2 levels past Bc calc

The part about edited scattergrams - that depends on school. We see it all. QuestBridge kids can get in with a bit lower scores, but GPA is always up there. It's the athletes that are the outliers. A 3.6 and a 1350 to Princeton, etc. You actually have other pinch out the Scattergram to see their dot way over there. (we have few enough of both QB and athletes, the kids know which is which. our school isn't that big)

Interesting that someone said Dartmouth takes nobody from their school. Same! As a result, they get very few apps from our school so it could be chicken-egg.

And Columbia ED is a much easier admit than in first post. It's not top level as far as admissions. (these are all great schools of course. just talking admissions stats)

GPA and SAT scores - we all have that data

Hook - we *usually* have.

Quality of story or personal hook - harder to know, although at my kids nyc private, the kids sometimes review and edit each other's essays. So in that case, they know it all.

I had a kid at an American boarding school abroad and it was shocking what stats got in places. My oldest was in states for process at a private. Lesson I learned is that it varies considerably between schools beyond what I could have imagined until seeing it with my own eyes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Define “mid stats”?

I’m seeing a lot of kids with 1500+ SATs and almost perfect grades headed for Emory/Wash U/Tufts…

How on earth would you know their SAT scores and grades?

DP. Many schools let you look at SCOIR or naviance for each graduating class. one kid gets into a certain ivy and it is easy to see their "dot" then find it for every other school. When you have 3 kids you get to know many parents and the school sends out notices for everything, top PSAT scorers in 10th, top 10% end of junior year and then top20% fall of senior year. they all discuss GPAs, students and parents. cutoffs are easy to figure out.

for the PP question the mid-stats are published on the profile: WGPA 3.8 and SAT 1320, average APs taken is 6. These mid-kids on scattergrams get into VT in state but almost never WM or UVA, UC-Davis, UCSB, UGA, NYU, Clemson, as well as W&L , Uof R, Bates, Colby and other LACs around 20-30.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a s/o of the Duke vs Northwestern post below.

Here is what I've noticed at our selective NYC public:

--Top 10% or high stats + hook: HYP + Columbia + Penn (Wharton, VIPER or Engineering) .
--High stats, missing national level ECs or hook: Duke, Georgetown, Northwestern, Brown, Penn
--High stats + normal ECs OR some flaw on their record (like a bad grade or two) - Cornell, Chicago, JHU - these kids do very well with ED to the latter two.
--Mid to lower stats + no hook - public school or T50 possibly with merit. Most parents won't pay full for that level.

S and M are rare (most commonly high stats URM); no one gets into Dart or Vandy, for whatever reason

Curious if this is similar to other selective/feeder schools.

Pretty accurate for DMV but would probably put Columbia down a notch and put Duke up a notch to the top tier. Might also put Vandy on the same level as JHU, Chicago etc.

yes same at ours!

Anonymous wrote:This is a s/o of the Duke vs Northwestern post below.

Here is what I've noticed at our selective NYC public:

--Top 10% or high stats + hook: HYP + Columbia + Penn (Wharton, VIPER or Engineering) .
--High stats, missing national level ECs or hook: Duke, Georgetown, Northwestern, Brown, Penn
--High stats + normal ECs OR some flaw on their record (like a bad grade or two) - Cornell, Chicago, JHU - these kids do very well with ED to the latter two.
--Mid to lower stats + no hook - public school or T50 possibly with merit. Most parents won't pay full for that level.

S and M are rare (most commonly high stats URM); no one gets into Dart or Vandy, for whatever reason

Curious if this is similar to other selective/feeder schools.

Similar at our non-DMV private but more like:

-Val/sal , no hooks plus max stats and crazy ECs for HYP , Penn(M&T, VIPER, Engineering, Wharton), Duke, Stanford all in RD or REA. These programs never have unhooked RD admits outside the very top top kids and the ones who do not get in usually get WL more than reject in RD at these schools. They all have very intense ECs that are known by peers.

-top10%, but not at the very top of class, and high stats and good but don't need crazy ECs for Penn ED (any program), Duke ED, Columbia ED or RD, Brown RD, Dartmouth RD, Cornell RD and Northwestern RD take from this group, and Chicago ED, Penn RD for CAS (ie non engineering non wharton) takes from this group some years

-HOOKED non-athletes (legacy, QBridge, FGLI, URM) on border or barely in top10%, max rigor not needed, will still get HYP and Penn or columbia or Brown in RD--ivies love hooks more than rigor. 20% of the private school is on financial scholarship and QB is pushed by the school the last few cycles. The school will exclude all of these hooks from the data during the family meeting discussing the college lists but they do not let parents walk out with printed details. They just pull up scattergrams then show a bunch of dots disappear to leave the unhooked so you can see where your unhooked kid fits.

-unhooked high stats TOP rigor but borderline/just outside top10% gpa can get into Chicago ED easily, JHU ED, Northwestern ED, Vanderbilt ED, and Cornell RD if not engineering.

-Hooked recruited athletes can be as low as 1220 SAT/middle of the pack GPA/only a few APs and still get into all of the above schools easily but are never allowed by the recruiting school to pick Engineering for any school that has it, nor Wharton for Penn, per real parents and students who have been told that

The athletic recruits are by far the biggest hook!