Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bowdoin’s working peer group is the very top of the LAC category:

https://www.sixcolleges.org/

Carleton is an interesting choice for this "peer" group.

Those 6 are also consistently top 10 USNWR LACs while the others OP asked about are not.

Oh, really? Since 2000, Carleton has ranked higher than Middlebury in USNews eight times. They've tied six times. Middlebury has ranked higher than Carleton 12 times.

The statement you are trying to refute is factually correct. None of the six colleges have been outside of the top 10 since 2000. Middlebury has, including each of the last three years. Middlebury is a great school but you are trying to pick a fight needlessly by challenging statements that are in fact true.

This is the statement that the PP made: "Those 6 are also consistently top 10 USNWR LACs while the others OP asked about are not."

With the exception of the past three years, Middlebury has consistently been in the top 10 (and even top 5). It fell when the rankings started focusing more on social mobility. In 2023 and 2024, it was ranked 11. Last year, 19.

The 6% increase (5% to 11%) increase in weighting that pertains to Pell grant graduation rates is not the sole reason for Middlebury’s drop.

Of note, the last year Middlebury ranked in the T10 (2022) it ranked 7th for financial resources. It now ranks 45th. This category currently counts for 8%, down from 10% (to the benefit of Middlebury.) The 2025 methodology explicitly states spending not related to academics does not count; the 2022 does not say the same.

Middlebury also has gone from 8/1 to 9/1 in student to faculty ratio. Fortunately for Middlebury, that metric now only counts for 4% while in 2022 it counted for 8%.

Back to Pell grant grad rates, I personally think the 11% is defensible considering 1/3 of students nationally receive federal aid and all students on campus benefit when the less financially fortunate are not dropping out more than the rest.

I happen to think Middlebury is a fantastic school. But the constant moaning about how it dropped just because of social mobility is not only misleading but also counterproductive in reversing the perception its community should do more to help its less financially privileged students.

Anonymous wrote:Bowdoin is best, Middlebury next as far as best academics, peers, faculty.
Bates and Colby are more about social life athletics and fun than studying or being academically driven.

Inane generalization. 🙄

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bowdoin’s working peer group is the very top of the LAC category:

https://www.sixcolleges.org/

Carleton is an interesting choice for this "peer" group.

Those 6 are also consistently top 10 USNWR LACs while the others OP asked about are not.

Oh, really? Since 2000, Carleton has ranked higher than Middlebury in USNews eight times. They've tied six times. Middlebury has ranked higher than Carleton 12 times.

The statement you are trying to refute is factually correct. None of the six colleges have been outside of the top 10 since 2000. Middlebury has, including each of the last three years. Middlebury is a great school but you are trying to pick a fight needlessly by challenging statements that are in fact true.

This is the statement that the PP made: "Those 6 are also consistently top 10 USNWR LACs while the others OP asked about are not."

With the exception of the past three years, Middlebury has consistently been in the top 10 (and even top 5). It fell when the rankings started focusing more on social mobility. In 2023 and 2024, it was ranked 11. Last year, 19.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bowdoin’s working peer group is the very top of the LAC category:

https://www.sixcolleges.org/

Carleton is an interesting choice for this "peer" group.

Those 6 are also consistently top 10 USNWR LACs while the others OP asked about are not.

Oh, really? Since 2000, Carleton has ranked higher than Middlebury in USNews eight times. They've tied six times. Middlebury has ranked higher than Carleton 12 times.

However, this comparison doesn't appear to be relevant to ths post to which you responded, in that the referent assertion pertained to top-10 consistency.

Okay top 10 since 2000:
Carleton: 26 times
Middlebury: 22 times

Top 5 since 2000:
Carleton: 7 times
Middlebury: 12 times

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bowdoin’s working peer group is the very top of the LAC category:

https://www.sixcolleges.org/

Carleton is an interesting choice for this "peer" group.

Those 6 are also consistently top 10 USNWR LACs while the others OP asked about are not.

Oh, really? Since 2000, Carleton has ranked higher than Middlebury in USNews eight times. They've tied six times. Middlebury has ranked higher than Carleton 12 times.

The statement you are trying to refute is factually correct. None of the six colleges have been outside of the top 10 since 2000. Middlebury has, including each of the last three years. Middlebury is a great school but you are trying to pick a fight needlessly by challenging statements that are in fact true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bowdoin’s working peer group is the very top of the LAC category:

https://www.sixcolleges.org/

Carleton is an interesting choice for this "peer" group.

It’s at or above the grad school (PhD, MD, and JD) matriculation/acceptance rate of the rest of the group. MBA data is noisier since typically started much later.

Carleton is a powerhouse for producing PhDs. That much I'll give you. But ...

Carlton's med school acceptance rate is 82% over the past five years.
https://www.carleton.edu/pre-health/medicine/

Middlebury's med school acceptance rate is 90% over the past five years.
https://www.middlebury.edu/teaching-learning-research/student-resources/health-professions/prospective-students

Bowdoin is 87%, Bates is 75%, Colby is 68%.

For law school, Both Carleton and Middlebury have acceptance rates of 89%.

You don't want to include MBAs because Middlebury far exceeds all the others.

This says Bowdoin med school acceptance rate is 80%:

https://www.bowdoin.edu/health-professions/about/facts-and-statistics/index.html

Amherst 75-80%:

https://careers.amherst.edu/blog/2022/12/12/the-medical-school-doctor-is-in/

Pomona 85%

https://careers.amherst.edu/blog/2022/12/12/the-medical-school-doctor-is-in/

Swarthmore 84%:

https://www.swarthmore.edu/health-sciences-office/admissions-outlook

Couldn’t find on Williams’ site.

For PhDs, Middlebury isn’t in the top 60 while the “six colleges” group are all in the top 20 (except Bowdoin at 38.)

https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/institutional-effectiveness-research-assessment/Doct%20Rates%20Top%20100%20Tot%20Sci%20Rankings%20-Summary%20to%202022.pdf

I don’t think any of them post MBA rates, including Middlebury, so you are just making noise on that. MBAs are largely a function of work experience so it makes sense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bowdoin’s working peer group is the very top of the LAC category:

https://www.sixcolleges.org/

Carleton is an interesting choice for this "peer" group.

Those 6 are also consistently top 10 USNWR LACs while the others OP asked about are not.

Oh, really? Since 2000, Carleton has ranked higher than Middlebury in USNews eight times. They've tied six times. Middlebury has ranked higher than Carleton 12 times.

However, this comparison doesn't appear to be relevant to ths post to which you responded, in that the referent assertion pertained to top-10 consistency.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bowdoin’s working peer group is the very top of the LAC category:

https://www.sixcolleges.org/

Carleton is an interesting choice for this "peer" group.

Those 6 are also consistently top 10 USNWR LACs while the others OP asked about are not.

Oh, really? Since 2000, Carleton has ranked higher than Middlebury in USNews eight times. They've tied six times. Middlebury has ranked higher than Carleton 12 times.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bowdoin’s working peer group is the very top of the LAC category:

https://www.sixcolleges.org/

Carleton is an interesting choice for this "peer" group.

It’s at or above the grad school (PhD, MD, and JD) matriculation/acceptance rate of the rest of the group. MBA data is noisier since typically started much later.

Carleton is a powerhouse for producing PhDs. That much I'll give you. But ...

Carlton's med school acceptance rate is 82% over the past five years.
https://www.carleton.edu/pre-health/medicine/

Middlebury's med school acceptance rate is 90% over the past five years.
https://www.middlebury.edu/teaching-learning-research/student-resources/health-professions/prospective-students

Bowdoin is 87%, Bates is 75%, Colby is 68%.

For law school, Both Carleton and Middlebury have acceptance rates of 89%.

You don't want to include MBAs because Middlebury far exceeds all the others.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bowdoin’s working peer group is the very top of the LAC category:

https://www.sixcolleges.org/

Carleton is an interesting choice for this "peer" group.

It’s at or above the grad school (PhD, MD, and JD) matriculation/acceptance rate of the rest of the group. MBA data is noisier since typically started much later. Those 6 are also consistently top 10 USNWR LACs while the others OP asked about are not. But the bigger point is those six actually do see enough overlap in their applicant pool that they do admissions events together. It is not the opinion of an anonymous forum poster or even a guide book but a conclusion of the colleges themselves.

Refer to the post above for the conclusion of the schools themselves.

Anonymous wrote:Bowdoin is best, Middlebury next as far as best academics, peers, faculty.
Bates and Colby are more about social life athletics and fun than studying or being academically driven.

How exactly are you measuring academics, peers, and faculty?

All four of these colleges listed each other as peers in their reporting to the US Dept of Education's Integrated Postsecondary Education Data System.

Williams listed Bowdoin and Middlebury as peers, but not Colby or Bates. Same with Swarthmore. Pomona didn't list any of the four as peers (interestingly though, they listed Trinity College, Wesleyan, and Oberlin). Amherst didn't list any peers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bowdoin’s working peer group is the very top of the LAC category:

https://www.sixcolleges.org/

Carleton is an interesting choice for this "peer" group.

It’s at or above the grad school (PhD, MD, and JD) matriculation/acceptance rate of the rest of the group. MBA data is noisier since typically started much later. Those 6 are also consistently top 10 USNWR LACs while the others OP asked about are not. But the bigger point is those six actually do see enough overlap in their applicant pool that they do admissions events together. It is not the opinion of an anonymous forum poster or even a guide book but a conclusion of the colleges themselves.

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, they all just blur together for me. Tiny schools, same type of students.

+100

Bowdoin is best, Middlebury next as far as best academics, peers, faculty.
Bates and Colby are more about social life athletics and fun than studying or being academically driven.

Anonymous wrote:I think Bowdoin is the best-regarded academically. It has the benefit of Brunswick (nice town) and Amtrak.

Middlebury is remote, pretty. Strengths in writing and languages.

I don't know much about Colby and Bates. I think of them as a little more preppy and less academic, but that might not be fair.

I'll point out that Middlebury also has Amtrak now.