Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Adding to my post above, for my medical kid, I'd do pretty much the same thing, except that I would have calculated what he needed to eat, and anything that didn't get eaten, I would have blended up and fed him through his feeding tube.

I say that, in part, because I get the fear that your kid won't eat enough and will be hungry. Not, "it's time for dinner" hungry but malnourished. I want to say that first of all, that's pretty rare. If you aren't seeing signs of trouble, like failure to grow, then I would try really hard to let go of the idea that the kid being hungry is either a bad thing, or your problem to solve. Your job is to provide healthy food within a structure, and their job is to problem solve their own hunger within that structure. It's really OK for a kid to go a few hours without food because they are pushing against the structure. Over time, the more consistent you are with the structure, the more they'll learn to anticipate their own hunger and eat accordingly, and the less often they'll be significantly hungry.

I am the PP and I just want to thank you for this and your last post -- really helpful. Admittedly we struggle with consistency at times especially on sort of the auxiliary issues of snacks and dessert (so much effort goes into being con

sistent and adopting the right attitude with regards to meals). But this is a good guide -- I really appreciate you taking the time to write it out.

Anonymous wrote:Adding to my post above, for my medical kid, I'd do pretty much the same thing, except that I would have calculated what he needed to eat, and anything that didn't get eaten, I would have blended up and fed him through his feeding tube.

I say that, in part, because I get the fear that your kid won't eat enough and will be hungry. Not, "it's time for dinner" hungry but malnourished. I want to say that first of all, that's pretty rare. If you aren't seeing signs of trouble, like failure to grow, then I would try really hard to let go of the idea that the kid being hungry is either a bad thing, or your problem to solve. Your job is to provide healthy food within a structure, and their job is to problem solve their own hunger within that structure. It's really OK for a kid to go a few hours without food because they are pushing against the structure. Over time, the more consistent you are with the structure, the more they'll learn to anticipate their own hunger and eat accordingly, and the less often they'll be significantly hungry.

Anonymous wrote:I’m another parent of a child with ARFID. My child used to vomit before she could even get the taste of a non preferred food in her mouth. Sometimes she vomited just from looking at food. We did many years of feeding therapy and now she can pass for a regular picky eater in many situations. The thing that continues to break my heart is how ashamed she is about her eating. She has another diagnosis she is very open about but she’s heard people rail against picky eaters her entire life. All she wants is to pass for normal. I promise you she is SO motivated to eat more. I am constantly trying to walk the line between protecting her privacy and making sure she can eat.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We do the “as many bites as you are old” rule (3 year old tries 3 bites), and one “safe” food that they reliably eat. So if dinner is pasta, they try 3 bites. But there’s also blueberries (favorite food) and a roll (super favorite food).

Yep, this means that dinner was often 3 bites of pasta, a handful of blueberries, and a roll. But we did find that some foods became foods they would reliably eat after like 10-20 meals.

How do you enforce it. Do they have to continue to sit at the table until they have consumed 3 bites of each item? Do they lose a privilege? Just wondering because my #2 would never have done it.

Anonymous wrote:I want to ask a specific question for the BTDT parents regarding the more extreme versions of picky eating.

How do you handle a child who is being served foods you know they will eat and have eaten recently (like for us we always have bread and butter and fruit on the table for meals) but they say they are not hungry, and then 30 minutes later ask for a snack food or dessert?

To give a very specific example: last night we had chicken tacos. Our picky eater won't eat combined foods and doesn't eat meat but will eat tortillas and shredded cheese so we made sure those were on the table separately. We also had apple slices and peanut butter on the table, which we often do when we know DC won't touch the protein we are eating.

DC ate maybe 3 bites of a tortilla, two bites of shredded cheese, and wouldn't touch the apples or peanut butter, and then said she wasn't really hungry. We said okay and excused her from the table.

Then an hour later she asked if she could have one of the holiday cookies our friends had brought over yesterday. I said no, I couldn't give her a cookie because she ate so little for dinner and I didn't want her to just have a cookie for dinner. I said if she was hungry she could have bread or a tortilla with some butter on it (something she is normally fine with). She declined that but asked if she could have crackers. Part of me wanted to relent just because she was hungry and I just want her to eat. But DH cut in and said no, we were offering several more healthy and filling options than crackers, which she normally eats, and we can't give her crackers instead because they aren't as healthy and won't fill her tummy up the same way.

It's really hard. I don't want her to be hungry. But DH is right if we give in and give her snack foods after a meal that was designed to meet her pickiness halfway, it just reinforces the idea that she can fill up on crackers instead of making the effort to eat the more healthy, higher variety foods we're serving.

Any advice on handling this specific situation? I have no trouble saying no to the cookie but it's hard to hold a firm line when you have a kid saying they are hungry and asking for food but refusing all the options you are offering which are already an accommodation from what was actually served for dinner (like we know she's not going to actually eat a chicken taco).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to ask a specific question for the BTDT parents regarding the more extreme versions of picky eating.

How do you handle a child who is being served foods you know they will eat and have eaten recently (like for us we always have bread and butter and fruit on the table for meals) but they say they are not hungry, and then 30 minutes later ask for a snack food or dessert?

To give a very specific example: last night we had chicken tacos. Our picky eater won't eat combined foods and doesn't eat meat but will eat tortillas and shredded cheese so we made sure those were on the table separately. We also had apple slices and peanut butter on the table, which we often do when we know DC won't touch the protein we are eating.

DC ate maybe 3 bites of a tortilla, two bites of shredded cheese, and wouldn't touch the apples or peanut butter, and then said she wasn't really hungry. We said okay and excused her from the table.

Then an hour later she asked if she could have one of the holiday cookies our friends had brought over yesterday. I said no, I couldn't give her a cookie because she ate so little for dinner and I didn't want her to just have a cookie for dinner. I said if she was hungry she could have bread or a tortilla with some butter on it (something she is normally fine with). She declined that but asked if she could have crackers. Part of me wanted to relent just because she was hungry and I just want her to eat. But DH cut in and said no, we were offering several more healthy and filling options than crackers, which she normally eats, and we can't give her crackers instead because they aren't as healthy and won't fill her tummy up the same way.

It's really hard. I don't want her to be hungry. But DH is right if we give in and give her snack foods after a meal that was designed to meet her pickiness halfway, it just reinforces the idea that she can fill up on crackers instead of making the effort to eat the more healthy, higher variety foods we're serving.

Any advice on handling this specific situation? I have no trouble saying no to the cookie but it's hard to hold a firm line when you have a kid saying they are hungry and asking for food but refusing all the options you are offering which are already an accommodation from what was actually served for dinner (like we know she's not going to actually eat a chicken taco).

For me, if she is asking for one holiday cookie when other children at home are having one, I’d say that’s fine. One small evening snack like a cookie or a few crackers is fine, to me. I would not let that child eat MORE dessert or evening snack than the rest of the family though. I’d do what you did, and offer more dinner or some fruit. Some kids are grazers or are not hungry at the family’s dinner time and that’s fine.
I am starving at 4pm and have just started eating my own dinner at 4pm as opposed to eating tons of snack food and then finally dinner at 7 when I’m not hungry anymore. As a bonus I’ve lost like 10lb with this approach.

Fair enough. I think I just have trouble getting over her not eating foods that we know she does eat sometimes (and that have been served specifically to ensure that there are foods on the table she can eat) and then letting her have a cookie essentially in lieu of an actual dinner.

Do you not worry about it becoming habit -- refusing the served food knowing they can have a cooking or some crackers later? This is my fear. That I'm giving her a way to get out of eating dinner and just eat dessert or snacks instead, thus making an end run around our careful efforts to try and encourage her to eat a varied, balanced diet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to ask a specific question for the BTDT parents regarding the more extreme versions of picky eating.

How do you handle a child who is being served foods you know they will eat and have eaten recently (like for us we always have bread and butter and fruit on the table for meals) but they say they are not hungry, and then 30 minutes later ask for a snack food or dessert?

To give a very specific example: last night we had chicken tacos. Our picky eater won't eat combined foods and doesn't eat meat but will eat tortillas and shredded cheese so we made sure those were on the table separately. We also had apple slices and peanut butter on the table, which we often do when we know DC won't touch the protein we are eating.

DC ate maybe 3 bites of a tortilla, two bites of shredded cheese, and wouldn't touch the apples or peanut butter, and then said she wasn't really hungry. We said okay and excused her from the table.

Then an hour later she asked if she could have one of the holiday cookies our friends had brought over yesterday. I said no, I couldn't give her a cookie because she ate so little for dinner and I didn't want her to just have a cookie for dinner. I said if she was hungry she could have bread or a tortilla with some butter on it (something she is normally fine with). She declined that but asked if she could have crackers. Part of me wanted to relent just because she was hungry and I just want her to eat. But DH cut in and said no, we were offering several more healthy and filling options than crackers, which she normally eats, and we can't give her crackers instead because they aren't as healthy and won't fill her tummy up the same way.

It's really hard. I don't want her to be hungry. But DH is right if we give in and give her snack foods after a meal that was designed to meet her pickiness halfway, it just reinforces the idea that she can fill up on crackers instead of making the effort to eat the more healthy, higher variety foods we're serving.

Any advice on handling this specific situation? I have no trouble saying no to the cookie but it's hard to hold a firm line when you have a kid saying they are hungry and asking for food but refusing all the options you are offering which are already an accommodation from what was actually served for dinner (like we know she's not going to actually eat a chicken taco).

For me, if she is asking for one holiday cookie when other children at home are having one, I’d say that’s fine. One small evening snack like a cookie or a few crackers is fine, to me. I would not let that child eat MORE dessert or evening snack than the rest of the family though. I’d do what you did, and offer more dinner or some fruit. Some kids are grazers or are not hungry at the family’s dinner time and that’s fine.
I am starving at 4pm and have just started eating my own dinner at 4pm as opposed to eating tons of snack food and then finally dinner at 7 when I’m not hungry anymore. As a bonus I’ve lost like 10lb with this approach.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to ask a specific question for the BTDT parents regarding the more extreme versions of picky eating.

How do you handle a child who is being served foods you know they will eat and have eaten recently (like for us we always have bread and butter and fruit on the table for meals) but they say they are not hungry, and then 30 minutes later ask for a snack food or dessert?

To give a very specific example: last night we had chicken tacos. Our picky eater won't eat combined foods and doesn't eat meat but will eat tortillas and shredded cheese so we made sure those were on the table separately. We also had apple slices and peanut butter on the table, which we often do when we know DC won't touch the protein we are eating.

DC ate maybe 3 bites of a tortilla, two bites of shredded cheese, and wouldn't touch the apples or peanut butter, and then said she wasn't really hungry. We said okay and excused her from the table.

Then an hour later she asked if she could have one of the holiday cookies our friends had brought over yesterday. I said no, I couldn't give her a cookie because she ate so little for dinner and I didn't want her to just have a cookie for dinner. I said if she was hungry she could have bread or a tortilla with some butter on it (something she is normally fine with). She declined that but asked if she could have crackers. Part of me wanted to relent just because she was hungry and I just want her to eat. But DH cut in and said no, we were offering several more healthy and filling options than crackers, which she normally eats, and we can't give her crackers instead because they aren't as healthy and won't fill her tummy up the same way.

It's really hard. I don't want her to be hungry. But DH is right if we give in and give her snack foods after a meal that was designed to meet her pickiness halfway, it just reinforces the idea that she can fill up on crackers instead of making the effort to eat the more healthy, higher variety foods we're serving.

Any advice on handling this specific situation? I have no trouble saying no to the cookie but it's hard to hold a firm line when you have a kid saying they are hungry and asking for food but refusing all the options you are offering which are already an accommodation from what was actually served for dinner (like we know she's not going to actually eat a chicken taco).

For me, if she is asking for one holiday cookie when other children at home are having one, I’d say that’s fine. One small evening snack like a cookie or a few crackers is fine, to me. I would not let that child eat MORE dessert or evening snack than the rest of the family though. I’d do what you did, and offer more dinner or some fruit. Some kids are grazers or are not hungry at the family’s dinner time and that’s fine.
I am starving at 4pm and have just started eating my own dinner at 4pm as opposed to eating tons of snack food and then finally dinner at 7 when I’m not hungry anymore. As a bonus I’ve lost like 10lb with this approach.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was that picky child and had two picky kids, to varying degrees. The first thing to accept is that she really isn't doing this to be difficult. When I was a child those foods really did taste awful to me, I would gag too. Think of the most disgusting food you can imagine and how it would feel if someone forced you to eat that.

We followed the Satter "division of responsibility" for food. That is we chose what to serve and when, the kids decide if they will eat and how much. Every meal included at least one thing they would eat, generally fruit and/or bread. And then we didn't focus during the meal on who is eating what. No cajoling, no no-thank-you bites, etc. It was really hard for my husband who grew up with a "clean your plate" mom and likely as a result has very poor food regulation instincts and has been overweight his whole adult life. He wanted to do the "one bite" thing but that turned every meal into an argument about how much = "one bite". It made every meal a misery and my sympathy was 100% with my kids so I put a stop to it.

If the kids said they didn't want/didn't like something I'd just say that's ok. Your taste buds change as you grow up so eventually you may like it. That's what happened to me.

As you are already doing, you limit snacks to a defined time and the kitchen is closed outside of that time. And this has to apply to all the kids. The picky one isn't getting punished. It's healthier for all to not be grazing all day.

This is NOT a quick fix. It was years. It finally started getting better in middle school. But my kids are 20 & 21 and now eat pretty much anything. One hold out so far is 20 year old still can't eat beans (black beans, kidney beans, etc). She keeps trying because she wishes she could eat them but they still make her gag.

With this approach, even when it seemed at times that they lived on breakfast cereal (only at breakfast), a daily multivitamin, and air, they kept growing appropriately. Our ped actually said she'd never seen kids track so precisely on their growth curves. So, it is important to keep an eye on that and if they were to fall off the curve then you'd want to consult an eating specialist.

You can learn more about the Satter "eating competence" approach here https://www.ellynsatterinstitute.org/satter-eating-competence-model/

Thank you for this. We are in the thick of it with our 7 year old now and I related so much to what you wrote about your DH coming from a "clean plate" household and really struggling with the hands off approach. We follow Satter with some modifications (one thing we've discovered is that some recommendations for picky eaters are harder to implement in a family with one child because of how meals work and because you can't lean on consistency across siblings to normalize certain behaviors around food) but it's still hard and consumes a lot of my energy. It's crazy how much effort I still have to put into being chill about what my child chooses to eat or not eat at a meal!

But it's really good to hear that it got better for your kids and that they have normal food preferences now. My number one fear is that my kid will struggle in life and as an adult because limited food preferences will limit her in other ways. I am always relieved to hear about kids with severe picky eating who out grow it even if it doesn't happen until the tween or teen years.

Anonymous wrote:I want to ask a specific question for the BTDT parents regarding the more extreme versions of picky eating.

How do you handle a child who is being served foods you know they will eat and have eaten recently (like for us we always have bread and butter and fruit on the table for meals) but they say they are not hungry, and then 30 minutes later ask for a snack food or dessert?

To give a very specific example: last night we had chicken tacos. Our picky eater won't eat combined foods and doesn't eat meat but will eat tortillas and shredded cheese so we made sure those were on the table separately. We also had apple slices and peanut butter on the table, which we often do when we know DC won't touch the protein we are eating.

DC ate maybe 3 bites of a tortilla, two bites of shredded cheese, and wouldn't touch the apples or peanut butter, and then said she wasn't really hungry. We said okay and excused her from the table.

Then an hour later she asked if she could have one of the holiday cookies our friends had brought over yesterday. I said no, I couldn't give her a cookie because she ate so little for dinner and I didn't want her to just have a cookie for dinner. I said if she was hungry she could have bread or a tortilla with some butter on it (something she is normally fine with). She declined that but asked if she could have crackers. Part of me wanted to relent just because she was hungry and I just want her to eat. But DH cut in and said no, we were offering several more healthy and filling options than crackers, which she normally eats, and we can't give her crackers instead because they aren't as healthy and won't fill her tummy up the same way.

It's really hard. I don't want her to be hungry. But DH is right if we give in and give her snack foods after a meal that was designed to meet her pickiness halfway, it just reinforces the idea that she can fill up on crackers instead of making the effort to eat the more healthy, higher variety foods we're serving.

Any advice on handling this specific situation? I have no trouble saying no to the cookie but it's hard to hold a firm line when you have a kid saying they are hungry and asking for food but refusing all the options you are offering which are already an accommodation from what was actually served for dinner (like we know she's not going to actually eat a chicken taco).

Anonymous wrote:I want to ask a specific question for the BTDT parents regarding the more extreme versions of picky eating.

How do you handle a child who is being served foods you know they will eat and have eaten recently (like for us we always have bread and butter and fruit on the table for meals) but they say they are not hungry, and then 30 minutes later ask for a snack food or dessert?

To give a very specific example: last night we had chicken tacos. Our picky eater won't eat combined foods and doesn't eat meat but will eat tortillas and shredded cheese so we made sure those were on the table separately. We also had apple slices and peanut butter on the table, which we often do when we know DC won't touch the protein we are eating.

DC ate maybe 3 bites of a tortilla, two bites of shredded cheese, and wouldn't touch the apples or peanut butter, and then said she wasn't really hungry. We said okay and excused her from the table.

Then an hour later she asked if she could have one of the holiday cookies our friends had brought over yesterday. I said no, I couldn't give her a cookie because she ate so little for dinner and I didn't want her to just have a cookie for dinner. I said if she was hungry she could have bread or a tortilla with some butter on it (something she is normally fine with). She declined that but asked if she could have crackers. Part of me wanted to relent just because she was hungry and I just want her to eat. But DH cut in and said no, we were offering several more healthy and filling options than crackers, which she normally eats, and we can't give her crackers instead because they aren't as healthy and won't fill her tummy up the same way.

It's really hard. I don't want her to be hungry. But DH is right if we give in and give her snack foods after a meal that was designed to meet her pickiness halfway, it just reinforces the idea that she can fill up on crackers instead of making the effort to eat the more healthy, higher variety foods we're serving.

Any advice on handling this specific situation? I have no trouble saying no to the cookie but it's hard to hold a firm line when you have a kid saying they are hungry and asking for food but refusing all the options you are offering which are already an accommodation from what was actually served for dinner (like we know she's not going to actually eat a chicken taco).

Anonymous wrote:I was that picky child and had two picky kids, to varying degrees. The first thing to accept is that she really isn't doing this to be difficult. When I was a child those foods really did taste awful to me, I would gag too. Think of the most disgusting food you can imagine and how it would feel if someone forced you to eat that.

We followed the Satter "division of responsibility" for food. That is we chose what to serve and when, the kids decide if they will eat and how much. Every meal included at least one thing they would eat, generally fruit and/or bread. And then we didn't focus during the meal on who is eating what. No cajoling, no no-thank-you bites, etc. It was really hard for my husband who grew up with a "clean your plate" mom and likely as a result has very poor food regulation instincts and has been overweight his whole adult life. He wanted to do the "one bite" thing but that turned every meal into an argument about how much = "one bite". It made every meal a misery and my sympathy was 100% with my kids so I put a stop to it.

If the kids said they didn't want/didn't like something I'd just say that's ok. Your taste buds change as you grow up so eventually you may like it. That's what happened to me.

As you are already doing, you limit snacks to a defined time and the kitchen is closed outside of that time. And this has to apply to all the kids. The picky one isn't getting punished. It's healthier for all to not be grazing all day.

This is NOT a quick fix. It was years. It finally started getting better in middle school. But my kids are 20 & 21 and now eat pretty much anything. One hold out so far is 20 year old still can't eat beans (black beans, kidney beans, etc). She keeps trying because she wishes she could eat them but they still make her gag.

With this approach, even when it seemed at times that they lived on breakfast cereal (only at breakfast), a daily multivitamin, and air, they kept growing appropriately. Our ped actually said she'd never seen kids track so precisely on their growth curves. So, it is important to keep an eye on that and if they were to fall off the curve then you'd want to consult an eating specialist.

You can learn more about the Satter "eating competence" approach here https://www.ellynsatterinstitute.org/satter-eating-competence-model/