Anonymous
12/03/2024 13:49
Subject: Who is more responsible for this Democrat train wreck
Anonymous wrote:It really is a toss up. DNC lost 2 out of 3 elections to Trump. And Trump was actually a more compromised candidate in 2024 than 2016.
I do not think Americans wanted Trump more in 2024; a perfect storm of a feeble and delusional self righteous president and a party that cannot manage anything led to where we are today.
I disagree. If Americans didn't want Trump and viewed him as compromised, they had a perfect alternative: Nikki Haley in the Republican primaries. She's intelligent, qualified, sane, articulate, and in all ways a great conservative candidate. She, too, lost badly to Trump.
The narrative that any halfway decent candidate would have beaten Trump, but Harris/Biden/DNC messed up is an incorrect one. A lot of people very much wanted Trump.
Anonymous
12/03/2024 13:45
Subject: Who is more responsible for this Democrat train wreck
Anonymous wrote:The Democratic party is pulled in two directions:
- "moderates" who believe America should serve as the world's policeman/military spending and that the private enterprise should carry out most functions with govt subsidies (healthcare, auto and financial industry bailouts, incentives for chip manufacturers etc)
- "progressives" who focus on inclusion/DEI, green economy initiatives, and are in favor of increasing govt supports but don't want to make major overhauls to free markets.
The DNC keeps running the moderate candidates bc the fear the social policies/views of the Progressives are too much of a turn off. They are likely right. The problem is the policies of the moderates isn't working for most Americans (health outcomes in the US are terrible, grocery prices went up and are staying up, home ownership in unaffordable for many, college is crazy expensive, etc etc). What I think the Democrats need is a candidate that acknowledges the problems and isn't afraid to offer up new radical ideas to solve them. I think that is what people liked about Trump - they want change not moderation.
In terms of who to blame, there is plenty to go around. I think the DNC's decision in 2016 to back Hiliary and sideline Bernie was a misstake. Personally I liked Hiliary and would have voted for her in any case, but suppressing the appetite for Bernie's more radical ideas was like putting a lid on a boiling pot of water. And Biden choosing to run again and then endorsing Harris (again who I liked and voted for) prevented a primary race where more radical ideas could have at least gotten an airing.
This is why democrats keep putting up modest dems. This nothing else.
Anonymous
12/03/2024 13:41
Subject: Who is more responsible for this Democrat train wreck
Anonymous wrote:Americans are stupid OP. 54% have under a 6th grade literacy rate according to Gallup. Unfortunately, unless you live on a coast you are screwed.
I thought the dept of education was going to solve that.
Anonymous
12/03/2024 13:32
Subject: Who is more responsible for this Democrat train wreck
I blame Jill Biden.
She knew Joe was incapable of four more years. She should have intervened well in advance to allow him to bow out gracefully and retain his dignity.
Then the contenders could battle it out. Harris would have been rejected IMO. Not sure who would have emerged as the candidate.
She knew Joe was incapable of four more years. She should have intervened well in advance to allow him to bow out gracefully and retain his dignity.
Then the contenders could battle it out. Harris would have been rejected IMO. Not sure who would have emerged as the candidate.
Anonymous
12/03/2024 13:26
Subject: Who is more responsible for this Democrat train wreck
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I originally blamed the DNC for “anointing” HRC in 2016; then (basically) doing the same in 2020 for Biden. Not that the primary slate in 2020 was that great so I get why they promoted him.
And obviously he won. So DNC got it right.
Really, after the debate, Biden was defiant and pissed for a month or so then drops out. Biden basically dictating Harris as his replacement and DNC goes along with it, then DNC blows through all the money and loses.
The problem is Democrats haven't had an open primary since 2008. Even in 2008, the media stepped in and heavily favored Obama. Democrats can blame messaging all they like, but Democrats haven't had a real debate about issues in a generation. That's why they keep losing to a gross, grifting reality show host. Of course, to debate, Democrats would have to be willing to let their preferred classes (URMs, women, etc.) lose an argument. I don't think they're ready to go that far yet.
That is ridiculous
Seems on point to me. If the DNC had let Bernie win back in 2016, we would have had a very different last 8 years. I’m starting to think it wasn’t just that they perceived it to be “Hilary’s turn”. I also think the big donors knew they couldn’t control Bernie so he couldn’t be allowed to move forward.
If Bernie really wanted the democratic nomination, he could have, you know, registered to be a democrat.
Anonymous
12/03/2024 13:18
Subject: Who is more responsible for this Democrat train wreck
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The American people are to blame. We get the leaders we deserve. Do better.
Disagree. The voters have almost no control over the top Presidential candidates. I don’t think anyone I ever voted for in a primary was the final nominee, except Obama in 2008.
Trump should have never been legally allowed to run again. That’s a huge failure of the system, not the voters.
PP again. And saying voters are dumb, well they are dumb because of a failed education system and lack of standards for the media.
Aren’t the Democrats the party of education?
It’s not either party, just general defunding of education or inappropriate spending on things that don’t make a difference.
Anonymous
12/03/2024 13:14
Subject: Who is more responsible for this Democrat train wreck
I have been in President Biden's corner throughout much of this. I think the arrogance and nonsense of imagining that the DNC could "control" the sitting President of the United States is both odd and troubling -- the people empowered President Biden, not "the DNC", to be the Chief Executive and Commander-in-Chief. The decision whether or not to run for reelection belonged to President Biden and to him alone.
I don't like the keystone cops nature of the way the DNC freaked out after one lackluster debate performance and created an open-air brawl to cajole, guilt-trip, and strong-arm the sitting President into dropping out of the race. That was amateur hour from start to finish. You don't change horses midstream.
That said, while I've been a supporter through all of this, I can't stomach the absolute gall Biden had to pardon his son for ANY AND ALL CRIMES over a ten-year period. It's breathtakingly despotic. Yet another blow to our tattered democracy and people don't realize the pandora's box he just flung open. I'm speechless. I'm fed up. I'm sick and tired of politicians and elites who get away with anything and everything while the little guy always gets crushed by the system.
I don't like the keystone cops nature of the way the DNC freaked out after one lackluster debate performance and created an open-air brawl to cajole, guilt-trip, and strong-arm the sitting President into dropping out of the race. That was amateur hour from start to finish. You don't change horses midstream.
That said, while I've been a supporter through all of this, I can't stomach the absolute gall Biden had to pardon his son for ANY AND ALL CRIMES over a ten-year period. It's breathtakingly despotic. Yet another blow to our tattered democracy and people don't realize the pandora's box he just flung open. I'm speechless. I'm fed up. I'm sick and tired of politicians and elites who get away with anything and everything while the little guy always gets crushed by the system.
Anonymous
12/03/2024 13:11
Subject: Who is more responsible for this Democrat train wreck
Anonymous wrote:wAnonymous wrote:People get the government they deserve.
And its a good government coming on 1/20
LOL
Anonymous
12/03/2024 13:08
Subject: Re:Who is more responsible for this Democrat train wreck
Anonymous wrote:Democratic train wreck. A Republican wrote “democrat” train wreck
Came here to say this, and also that we aren't the party of train wrecks, just the party that lost to one.
Anonymous
12/03/2024 12:59
Subject: Who is more responsible for this Democrat train wreck
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The American people are to blame. We get the leaders we deserve. Do better.
Disagree. The voters have almost no control over the top Presidential candidates. I don’t think anyone I ever voted for in a primary was the final nominee, except Obama in 2008.
Trump should have never been legally allowed to run again. That’s a huge failure of the system, not the voters.
PP again. And saying voters are dumb, well they are dumb because of a failed education system and lack of standards for the media.
Aren’t the Democrats the party of education?
Anonymous
12/03/2024 12:57
Subject: Who is more responsible for this Democrat train wreck
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I originally blamed the DNC for “anointing” HRC in 2016; then (basically) doing the same in 2020 for Biden. Not that the primary slate in 2020 was that great so I get why they promoted him.
And obviously he won. So DNC got it right.
Really, after the debate, Biden was defiant and pissed for a month or so then drops out. Biden basically dictating Harris as his replacement and DNC goes along with it, then DNC blows through all the money and loses.
The problem is Democrats haven't had an open primary since 2008. Even in 2008, the media stepped in and heavily favored Obama. Democrats can blame messaging all they like, but Democrats haven't had a real debate about issues in a generation. That's why they keep losing to a gross, grifting reality show host. Of course, to debate, Democrats would have to be willing to let their preferred classes (URMs, women, etc.) lose an argument. I don't think they're ready to go that far yet.
That is ridiculous
Seems on point to me. If the DNC had let Bernie win back in 2016, we would have had a very different last 8 years. I’m starting to think it wasn’t just that they perceived it to be “Hilary’s turn”. I also think the big donors knew they couldn’t control Bernie so he couldn’t be allowed to move forward.
Did Bernie get more votes than Hillary in the 2016 primary?
Anonymous
12/03/2024 12:56
Subject: Who is more responsible for this Democrat train wreck
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I originally blamed the DNC for “anointing” HRC in 2016; then (basically) doing the same in 2020 for Biden. Not that the primary slate in 2020 was that great so I get why they promoted him.
And obviously he won. So DNC got it right.
Really, after the debate, Biden was defiant and pissed for a month or so then drops out. Biden basically dictating Harris as his replacement and DNC goes along with it, then DNC blows through all the money and loses.
The problem is Democrats haven't had an open primary since 2008. Even in 2008, the media stepped in and heavily favored Obama. Democrats can blame messaging all they like, but Democrats haven't had a real debate about issues in a generation. That's why they keep losing to a gross, grifting reality show host. Of course, to debate, Democrats would have to be willing to let their preferred classes (URMs, women, etc.) lose an argument. I don't think they're ready to go that far yet.
That is ridiculous
Seems on point to me. If the DNC had let Bernie win back in 2016, we would have had a very different last 8 years. I’m starting to think it wasn’t just that they perceived it to be “Hilary’s turn”. I also think the big donors knew they couldn’t control Bernie so he couldn’t be allowed to move forward.
Anonymous
12/03/2024 12:55
Subject: Who is more responsible for this Democrat train wreck
"Do better" Brilliant. That's the public discourse we need, the lessons of the Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
Anonymous
12/03/2024 12:54
Subject: Who is more responsible for this Democrat train wreck
Anonymous wrote:It really is a toss up. DNC lost 2 out of 3 elections to Trump. And Trump was actually a more compromised candidate in 2024 than 2016.
I do not think Americans wanted Trump more in 2024; a perfect storm of a feeble and delusional self righteous president and a party that cannot manage anything led to where we are today.
175,000 votes across three states and we would be in a right fueled civil war right now.
3,000 votes spread across 3 different congressional districts and the dems would hold the house come January.
The problem is the media eco-system and core messaging.
The media gets sucked into trumpmania and still doesn;t know how to cover him properly, or don't want to.
Anonymous
12/03/2024 12:53
Subject: Who is more responsible for this Democrat train wreck
Anonymous wrote:Do you blame the DNC more or Biden’s arrogance for this ongoing comedy of errors over the last 4 years?
I originally blamed the DNC for “anointing” HRC in 2016; then (basically) doing the same in 2020 for Biden. Not that the primary slate in 2020 was that great so I get why they promoted him.
And obviously he won. So DNC got it right.
Really, after the debate, Biden was defiant and pissed for a month or so then drops out. Biden basically dictating Harris as his replacement and DNC goes along with it, then DNC blows through all the money and loses.
Now this pardon thing for 11 years is kind over the top to me - for the crimes he was convicted for fine, but anything not even charged yet for over decade seems excessive.
I want to blame the DNC for not making sure Biden would not run again but now I think they could not control a sitting president who is (basically) an arrogant ass.
So frustrating that it is like a comedy of errors that somehow seems to be getting worse when there literally is no election or major events to screw up.
I now think the Biden name should be banned from the Democratic Party for life.
Interesting. I would think inciting an insurrection would get you banned from a political party.