Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, I will try to answer this. My DD's sport has been her passion since early ES. Now, in 9th grade, it is clear that she is good enough to play in college. She is also really smart and a straight A student so far (yes, it is early, but AAP middle school, Honors 9th grade, tests very well). But pretty much nobody gets into an ivy without a hook. So she is starting to realize, hey, maybe I can use my sport to get into an Ivy. Because yes, she loves her sport, and she has put in soooooo much work and missed out on so much over the years. But the one thing she has put above her sport is academics. And she has worked hard there, too. And she is not going to make a career out of her sport. Plus, she is not good enough to go to a top 10 (in her sport) school. But she is good enough to play at an Ivy, most of which are not very good in her sport. But in the end, she wants that degree. Not the one from an academically mediocre but amazing in her sport school. How does that not make sense to you??

Maybe your dc is different and certainly women’s college sports are different and typically not as competitive as men’s in terms of recruiting standards, but ime a kid who is a focused and talented athlete is not going to want a mediocre sports school. They will want a good school with a strong team in their sport

PP here. And yes, I agree there is a difference between men's and women's sports but there are plenty of "focused and talented athletes" that are great but not the very greatest. But I would bet even some of the very greatest are more interested in getting the best education they can get while also playing the sport they love.

I don’t know of any personally who would choose a very mediocre sports team because it had a brand name that typically are most important to parents. To me, it seems that many parents are pushing this stuff. I also find it interesting that you assume a school that has good sports is automatically a poor or as you say ‘mediocre’ education.

I don't assume. But the schools that at the very best in my DD's sport are not the very best academically. And college is the end of the line for her sport. I mean exists professionally, but it is not big and she has no interest in pursuing that.

I think it is other people who assume the reason kids do sports is some sort of trick to get into a “better” college than they “deserve”

Most of the athletes I know end up at a school that fits their athletic and academic profiles. Some Ivy, most not.

I will try to give you an answer that accounts for all the nuances...with my kid a recruited baseball player:

1. Any baseball player that has the potential to play for a Power 4 team will play for a Power 4 team. If you have a 4.0 and a 1600, you have options like Stanford, Duke, Vanderbilt, UCB, UCLA, UNC, UVA. Schools that will give you everything you want from an athletic or academic standpoint. It would be odd for say UNC to heavily recruit you athletically, yet for Duke to have no interest at all.

Would you perhaps pick University of Tennessee over Stanford? Maybe...if you are in the top 1% of the top 1% and believe you have a great chance of going high in the MLB draft. However, that group is also getting drafted direct out of HS...so maybe you are in the top 3% - 10% of the top 1%.

2. Once it's clear that a Power 4 school isn't in the cards, you think a little more clear-eyed about college. This is where Ivy schools take on outsized importance. They are still D1, but with the added benefit of having a great name on your resume and ideally a team and alumni network that will help you professionally. As an example...would you really play at Fordham or Farleigh Dickinson (two non-Power 4 D1s that popped into my head) just for a couple of $$$s vs. play at Harvard or Princeton? Probably not...may be different if either of those schools gives you a significant scholarship.

You may think it is silly, but a huge draw for basketball and baseball at an Ivy is you do get to compete for the National Championship and it's an automatic berth. Sure, the likelihood of winning is remote...but UPenn did almost win its Super Regional 2 years ago (they were the undefeated team going into to the championship)...they were one win away from going to Omaha for the College World Series.

Football is very different from the other sports because you will never play for a National Championship at the Ivy schools. It is rare and will become extinct that a Power 4 prospect will ever play for an Ivy in football mainly because of NIL $$$s. Also true in basketball these days...4 of the 5 kids that made last year's All Ivy basketball team transferred to other schools for NIL $$$s.

Outside of the revenue sports, the other draw of the Ivy schools is that their teams often are Nationally ranked. UPenn's soccer team is ranked #12 in the country...Harvard/Yale/Cornell hocket teams are usually ranked...usually multiple Ivy league teams are ranked in the Top 20 for LAX, crew, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe I’m alone in this- and also not really all that impressed or interested in Ivy for my dc- but whenever I see discussions of college recruiting for sports on here, the posters immediately jump to Ivy options and imply they are the ultimate victory. But for many truly athletic dc I know, Ivys are obviously not known as great for sports and they’re not the focus or ‘dream’ at all. It’s finding the school that is best for their sport, and also a good fit in other ways too obviously.

Where’s the disconnect?

Going to any Ivy can matter (or any other top school). Notice I said can. Does not have to. But there are more potential pathways and options and doors for kids than say Towson which is a good school. It is the education, the experiences, and the connections/relationships. Do you need an Ivy? No. There are studies on this -- UMC in particular. Could someone go and just not take advantage or have a bad experience -- yes that happens a lot. But it can be transformative. It also matters more than people on DCUM like to say.

You do not go the the Ivys to play the highest level of sports. If you are a top student -- Stanford, Duke, ND, BC are all places where it would be better to go. You go to an Ivy for sports because it is a high enough level of sports and it is an Ivy. It is a hook to get in.

Most UMC kids in this area are not going to go to the top sports school becasue the academics are not there. Sure the schools I listed above will work plus others. But they are not for the most part going to Alabama to play in the SEC if they could without the sport go somewhere better. A kid who can get into a top 25 and wants to be a doctor, lawyer, banker, is not going to want to play D1 at that level. Ivy is hard work but a little more understanding that you are there for school. Many go DIII for this reason.

So the answer to your question is that no kids even those who are great and love their sport do not go to the best sports school. They go to the best academic school where they can play sports at a level that they like. It is the academics driving the decision not the sport. This is overwhelmingly true in our area where there are lots of UMC families.

Did you just put BC in the same category with Duke Stanford?

Anonymous wrote:From what I’ve seen, DCUM posters tend to be coastals with status insecurity.

So yes, getting their kid into an ivy- by hook or by crook, as they say- is a focus for many

This is the answer

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ like in the other post in this forum on track. No mention of really great track schools like Oregon, as example. In fact, the schools mentioned aren’t really great for track at all. So what’s the point for a kid who is an athlete? Is this just a hook pushed by a parent who wants to see their dc get into an Ivy or similar?

There are probably 2-3 girls in the state of VA that would qualify for Oregon/Arkansas/LSU/USC/Florida/Kentucky and those girls have those schools on their recruiting radar. For everyone else- other rosters need to be filled and if a kid is interested in a college sport- they are going after whatever spot they can

‘Whatever spot they can’ is very different than what we are discussing here which is parents being hyper focused on sports as a hook for an Ivy or similar. See recent post on Ivy football as example.

Anonymous wrote:^ like in the other post in this forum on track. No mention of really great track schools like Oregon, as example. In fact, the schools mentioned aren’t really great for track at all. So what’s the point for a kid who is an athlete? Is this just a hook pushed by a parent who wants to see their dc get into an Ivy or similar?

There are probably 2-3 girls in the state of VA that would qualify for Oregon/Arkansas/LSU/USC/Florida/Kentucky and those girls have those schools on their recruiting radar. For everyone else- other rosters need to be filled and if a kid is interested in a college sport- they are going after whatever spot they can

Anonymous wrote:Maybe I’m alone in this- and also not really all that impressed or interested in Ivy for my dc- but whenever I see discussions of college recruiting for sports on here, the posters immediately jump to Ivy options and imply they are the ultimate victory. But for many truly athletic dc I know, Ivys are obviously not known as great for sports and they’re not the focus or ‘dream’ at all. It’s finding the school that is best for their sport, and also a good fit in other ways too obviously.

Where’s the disconnect?

Going to any Ivy can matter (or any other top school). Notice I said can. Does not have to. But there are more potential pathways and options and doors for kids than say Towson which is a good school. It is the education, the experiences, and the connections/relationships. Do you need an Ivy? No. There are studies on this -- UMC in particular. Could someone go and just not take advantage or have a bad experience -- yes that happens a lot. But it can be transformative. It also matters more than people on DCUM like to say.

You do not go the the Ivys to play the highest level of sports. If you are a top student -- Stanford, Duke, ND, BC are all places where it would be better to go. You go to an Ivy for sports because it is a high enough level of sports and it is an Ivy. It is a hook to get in.

Most UMC kids in this area are not going to go to the top sports school becasue the academics are not there. Sure the schools I listed above will work plus others. But they are not for the most part going to Alabama to play in the SEC if they could without the sport go somewhere better. A kid who can get into a top 25 and wants to be a doctor, lawyer, banker, is not going to want to play D1 at that level. Ivy is hard work but a little more understanding that you are there for school. Many go DIII for this reason.

So the answer to your question is that no kids even those who are great and love their sport do not go to the best sports school. They go to the best academic school where they can play sports at a level that they like. It is the academics driving the decision not the sport. This is overwhelmingly true in our area where there are lots of UMC families.

Anonymous wrote:Of course why do you think parents sign their kids up for rowing and fencing

I did crew because I couldn't do anything else (hadn't played sports before high school). Did I know kids who went on to row at top academic schools? Yes. Did my parents have any idea that Ivy recruiting for crew was a thing? No.

From what I’ve seen, DCUM posters tend to be coastals with status insecurity.

So yes, getting their kid into an ivy- by hook or by crook, as they say- is a focus for many

And like clockwork, there is a new post from a parent asking about football at an Ivy. Lol

Anonymous wrote:I push sport for health and knowing how to work as a team. In the world where kids are addicted to phones it’s a win.

This is a great reason. Totally agree.

Anonymous wrote:I push sport for health and knowing how to work as a team. In the world where kids are addicted to phones it’s a win.

+1 That's a really good point.

I push sport for health and knowing how to work as a team. In the world where kids are addicted to phones it’s a win.

Anonymous wrote:I was not a college athlete at my Ivy after being an average HS swimmer. I had a ton of trouble finding my friends, structuring my days, and staying focused on studying. I also had trouble finding a supportive group of trustworthy people I could study with, get academic advice from, and plan my career with.

DH attended the same Ivy as an athlete but he was not recruited and didn’t have a likely letter. His experience was so much better than mine. He was focused on his studies. He had a supportive group of career-oriented, hard-working teammates. They gave him advice on how to structure his course load, how to access to best classes, and what to consider after graduation. He had access to a world beyond campus when he competed and the perspective that comes from having adult mentors who aren’t professors- he’d go do chores at his coaches’ houses, or go to a BBQ, or babysitter the trainers’ kids. He went on trips and to international competitions with his team that would have been unaffordable for me as a regular student. Every job he’s ever had came from that sport and all of his closest adult friends, too. Some of mind, as well!

I think the structure of sports are really valuable in college, especially at
Ivies where you don’t declare a major upon applying. It can be a really unstructured environment and sports can keep students focused and obviously provide incredible opportunities for friendship and networking later.

So yeah, there are a lot of reasons those who have it as a hook should use it.

You don’t think all those supportive factors can play a role at any school?? Come on now, just cut it out. So ridiculous