Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/news/parents-sue-school-massachusetts-son-203004528.html

Seems like these parents are really doing their kid a disservice. He broke the rules but they are going scorched earth to try to bail him out. How are we going to maintain any public school standards when parents act like this? This is why we can’t keep good teachers.

He used AI. That's not breaking the rules if there isn't a rule.
What does this have to do with teacher retention? Stop being so dramatic.

if you don't want kids to use AI make a rule.

How is using AI not clearly and obviously cheating? It certainly is plagiarism, and that in itself is grounds for expulsion when kids get to college.

So are you saying that if the words "AI" aren't in the rules, then the rule doesn't need to be followed? So if a magical monkey wrote the child's paper, and the teacher says that's cheating/plagiarism, you're saying it doesn't count so long as the words "magical monkeys" aren't a part of what is outlined in the rules of sources you cannot copy from or make off as your own work?

That type of thinking is exactly in line with the parents in OP's article. Always trying to cut corners and game the system, and then wonders why no one wants to be involved in that type of system anymore. Absolutely no academic integrity AND passing it down to their kids. I'm surprised there aren't even more teachers quitting than there actually are.

I appreciate 03:10 posting about the details, that was informative. I agree they got off lightly.

I had a prof suspect plagiarism in college. He brought me in for a meeting to see whether I could explain and discuss what I'd written about. I could, because I hadn't plagiarized. Issue resolved.

I think if there's doubt about whether the student used AI, they should bring them in to discuss their paper, their ideas, their sources used, etc. If they can, fine. In this case, they couldn't have because the sources didn't exist.
In HS I'd also add an in-class writing and grammar assignment to the mix: if you wrote your own paper, you'll do fine there too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you dense? I'm in college and even the professors are having a hard time distinguishing from AI, some people have even been wrongfully accused of using AI because AI detectors flags it as AI even when it is not.

Yes most people posting are dense (mostly non technical women) and they do not understand AI.

They probably think the cloud is in the air.

Queue the fake MIT grad.

Well that's rich.

This is from the Memorandum and Order
https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/legaldocs/lbvgjjqnkpq/11212024ai_ma.pdf

"In December 2023, school officials at Hingham High School (“HHS”) determined that
RNH and another student, both of whom were juniors at the time, had cheated on an AP U.S.
History project by attempting to pass off, as their own work, material that they had taken from a generative artificial intelligence (“AI”) application. Although students were permitted to use AI to brainstorm topics and identify sources, in this instance the students had indiscriminately copied and pasted text from the AI application, including citations to nonexistent books (i.e., AI hallucinations). The students received failing grades on two parts of the multi-part project, but they were permitted to start from scratch, each working separately, to complete and submit the final project. By way of discipline, RNH was required to attend a Saturday detention, and in the spring of 2024, he was rejected from the school’s National Honor Society, although he was ultimately permitted to reapply and has since been admitted."

On page 3-4 a further explanation is given:

"The work in question was a script for a short documentary film, which RNH and his partner submitted for an AP U.S. History project assigned in conjunction with the National History Day organization.The evidence reflects that the pair did not simply use AI to help formulate research topics or identify sources to review. Instead, it seems they indiscriminately copied and pasted text that had been generated by Grammarly.com (“Grammarly”), a publicly available AI tool, into their draft script. Evidently, the pair did not even review the “sources” that Grammarly provided before lifting them. The very first footnote in the submission consists of a citation to a nonexistent book: “Lee, Robert. Hoop Dreams: A Century of Basketball. Los Angeles: Courtside Publications, 2018.” Docket No. 23-4, at 1. The third footnote also appears wholly factitious: “Doe, Jane. Muslim Pioneers: The Spiritual Journey of American Icons. Chicago: Windy City Publishers, 2017.” Id. Significantly, even though the script contained citations to various sources—some of which were real—there was no citation to Grammarly, and no acknowledgement that AI of any kind had been used."

More details on page 11
" Specifically, Ms. Petrie used the “Revision History” extension for Chrome, a tool used by some HHS teachers to determine “how many edits students made to their essays, how long students spent writing, and what portions of
the work were copied and pasted.” Id. ¶ 8. In doing so, Ms. Petrie discovered that large portions of the script had been copied and pasted into the document. Id. Ms. Petrie testified that the revision history showed that RNH had only spent approximately 52 minutes in the document, whereas other students spent between seven and nine hours. Ms. Petrie also ran the submission through “Draft Back” and “Chat Zero,” two additional AI detection tools, which also indicated that AI had been used to generate the document. Id"

I am amazed the parents who are named (Dale and Jennifer Harris) are willing to sue because their child is now identifiable. This is clearly plagiarism. The students got off pretty lightly.

I am impressed that the teachers are using technology that can help students who are wrongly flagged for using AI. Students can still get around some of these, but in this case it clearly showed he copied while other students spent 6-8 hours MORE time on this assignment. I hope he is rejected from all the top universities.

Oops--it was a C minus.

The other kid's parents were much smarter. AFAIK, his name isn't public.

While the kid whose parents are suing is technically anonymous, everyone knows his initials, his class year, the high school he attends and the names of his parents. If they lose the suit, the colleges will also know he got a C plus in AP History. It's going to be easy for colleges to figure out his identity. Not only will colleges know he cheated, they'll know that his parents are unreasonable and willing to condone his cheating.

I think that's going to hurt his chances of getting into college a lot more than one C plus would have.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The rule said no unauthorized use of AI. He used ai to do research on a research paper assignment. He didn’t cite the AI tool. It’s cheating and it’s explicitly against the rules.

You realize that’s no different than using google.

You people don’t even understand AI.

If you google and it leads you to a source then you need to cite the source or its plagiarism. He didn’t cite AI.

OMG you don't cite AI.

SMFH

You site the source, AI is not more the source than putting "library" as a source.

No, you for sure need to cite AI

*Source: AI, The World Wide Web. 2024

I hate those parents and wish like anything I could be on any jury if this goes to trial. The school and the teacher should have 100% support from the administration and the community. Good for the other cheater for not suing. This move by the parents is loathsome and is itself dishonest. I guess the rotten apple falls right next to the tree.
In no world is copying and pasting text without quotations and a citations permissible, AI or no AI. What douchebags.

"Levenson wrote that the evidence shows the students didn’t simply use AI to formulate research topics or identify potential sources. “Instead, it seems they indiscriminately copied and pasted text that had been generated by Grammarly.com.” The copied text included citations for non-existent books—which appears to be one of the things AI is best at generating—including a book supposedly written by the author Jane Doe."


So the question was, was it "cheating" or merely "digital illiteracy or stupidity" , and if it was just illiteracy, was the severity of grade deserved.

My kid did not use ai and it’s terribly unreliable. I was sitting next to him when he wrote it. Certain words got flagged. It was a nightmare. Kids can be wrongly accused too.

The court is ruling for the school and against family.

https://gizmodo.com/judge-rules-in-favor-of-school-that-gave-student-a-bad-grade-for-using-ai-2000528368