Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of abusers in this thread perfectly describing the abuser mindset and justification. If they lash out at their partner in any way it isn’t abuse because she or he did or didn’t do something that made them angry or frustrated and resentful and this led to them being unable to regulate their emotions so they took that anger or frustration or resentment out on their partner but it isn’t their fault and it isn’t abuse, because if he or she had just done or not done things to cause those emotions in the first place then they wouldn’t have had to have the dysregulated emotion taken out on them.

I feel like you have been legitimately abused, but that doesn’t mean everyone on this thread has.

I have an equal partner. If we were at the grocery store, he would be with me or near me, sharing the list. The list we made together. The meals we brainstormed together. If I had a spouse like the pp’s, who goes off and leaves her with 3 kids and the actual list to manage, buys food for just himself, cooks it for just himself without making sure the little ones are fed, and then doesn’t clean up…that would drive me crazy.

If you think that the person who is doing all the shopping for the family and then cleaning up after the person who just fended for themselves and didn’t even clean up after themselves expecting someone else to do it…you think they are the victim?? Because the person carrying the physical and mental load doesn’t do it without being upset??? You need to re-examine your life.

I meant…you think that the person fending for themselves and not cleaning up for themselves and expecting others to do so is the victim…

dp. I think the person who feels frustrated and who takes that frustration and nags, yells or otherwise berates another person is being abusive. If a person rises to the level of public yelling, that person is out of control of their emotions and not behaving in a healthy manner. The target of the yelling is a victim, as are the bystanders and witnesses to the unhinged fockery.

Yelling is an issue and not a healthy dynamic but this idea that it's abuse always is also a little much. Probably why so many people are dysfunctional. Most people are lazy and won't do their stuff without consequences. Most people would prefer someone yelling at them to clean up dirty dishes 15 minutes after asking them nicely to which the other person ignored and then moving on rather than holding a grudge and doing something mean behind their back like not cooking for them or leaving them because they don't know how to communicate and get the other person to cooperate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of abusers in this thread perfectly describing the abuser mindset and justification. If they lash out at their partner in any way it isn’t abuse because she or he did or didn’t do something that made them angry or frustrated and resentful and this led to them being unable to regulate their emotions so they took that anger or frustration or resentment out on their partner but it isn’t their fault and it isn’t abuse, because if he or she had just done or not done things to cause those emotions in the first place then they wouldn’t have had to have the dysregulated emotion taken out on them.

I feel like you have been legitimately abused, but that doesn’t mean everyone on this thread has.

I have an equal partner. If we were at the grocery store, he would be with me or near me, sharing the list. The list we made together. The meals we brainstormed together. If I had a spouse like the pp’s, who goes off and leaves her with 3 kids and the actual list to manage, buys food for just himself, cooks it for just himself without making sure the little ones are fed, and then doesn’t clean up…that would drive me crazy.

If you think that the person who is doing all the shopping for the family and then cleaning up after the person who just fended for themselves and didn’t even clean up after themselves expecting someone else to do it…you think they are the victim?? Because the person carrying the physical and mental load doesn’t do it without being upset??? You need to re-examine your life.

I meant…you think that the person fending for themselves and not cleaning up for themselves and expecting others to do so is the victim…

dp. I think the person who feels frustrated and who takes that frustration and nags, yells or otherwise berates another person is being abusive. If a person rises to the level of public yelling, that person is out of control of their emotions and not behaving in a healthy manner. The target of the yelling is a victim, as are the bystanders and witnesses to the unhinged fockery.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The resentment that builds up when the adult that is supposed to be your partner in all the work of life instead bumbles around like they're somehow incapable or not responsible for anything forcing you to take the leadership role in EVERY. SINGLE. THING. and manage them through it is real. And results in things like regularly snapping at someone to do something because for the love of god you don't understand why they're not already doing something to help take care of everything / everyone

Obviously it's an unhealthy dynamic and I have no idea if your parent situation is this - but its a two person dynamic, not one person having a "personality disorder"

As an example my husband may join our 3 very young kids and me at the grocery store. He wonders off without a care in the world while I'm managing the kids and shopping for everything we need for the week. He may wonder back over with the ingredients for a meal he decided to cook for himself that afternoon that no one else likes and will take hours and leave the kitchen a mess. So yes what someone else may see is me snapping "can you just get the f'ing carrots and milk at least?!"

Again obviously not a health dynamic for anyone involved but also not just a me problem

My mom is also awful to my father - and has been for 53 years! She would say the same thing as you that she “deserves” to yell and belittle him because he has been doing the same dumb stuff for decades and she can’t take it.
Except there are two sides to everything and I can 100% vouch that she often yells and calls him dumb or an idiot for things that are her fault or are not actually wrong. She just immediately assumes that he messed up or she forgets that just because she thought it, doesn’t mean she said it out loud and we can’t read her mind. I have never once heard her acknowledge or apologize if she is wrong - or express appreciation or gratitude when someone manages to do something to her expectations.

My husband is not perfect - none of us are - but if I spoke to him the way my mom speaks to my dad he would stop listening to ever trying to do anything helpful. Why even try if you will get yelled anyway?

I feel sorry for your husband and if I was at the grocery store with you I would probably wander off to get away from you too.

What the PP is saying -- and with which I agree -- is that your mom is wrong but also it's extremely unlikely that she independently decided to become a haranguing yelly wife despite having a totally reasonable partner.

It's a crap dynamic for which both of your parents are absolutely responsible but you only see your mom as "the bad guy" because her bad behavior is loud and highly visible while your dad's is silent and often invisible. You think you can assess who is right and wrong but you're biased by your own relationship with your parents. In marriages like this where the man is passive and non-participatory, most of the parenting then falls on the mother who is already struggling due to the unhealthy dynamic with her spouse. So I'm guessing you feel defensive of your dad in part because you identify with him, having no doubt been on the receiving end of your mom's anger and shouting more than once.

But if you take yourself outside that dynamic and think about it, consider: you are viewing your father not as an adult in a marriage but more like a sibling to you who you need to protect and defend. The fact that you see your dad that way is screwed up -- it should be the other way around -- and reflects what is likely to have been neglectful and passive parenting by him.

The whole situation sucks but the mom yelling is just a piece of it. Yes your mom should find better ways to communicate, no question. But I would also love to talk to her and find out what other ways she's tried communicating with your dad and how that went. I'd also be curious to know what her parents were like when she was growing up, what kind of agency she had in deciding when and how to marry and have kids, what kind of support she got from family or community, etc. Not because I want to excuse her behavior. But because in my experience when you see a family with a dynamic you describe, it's often the tip of a much larger and very dysfunctional iceberg. Your mom is not solely responsible for it and also she could stop yelling at your dad tomorrow and I bet there would still be a ton of issues.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of abusers in this thread perfectly describing the abuser mindset and justification. If they lash out at their partner in any way it isn’t abuse because she or he did or didn’t do something that made them angry or frustrated and resentful and this led to them being unable to regulate their emotions so they took that anger or frustration or resentment out on their partner but it isn’t their fault and it isn’t abuse, because if he or she had just done or not done things to cause those emotions in the first place then they wouldn’t have had to have the dysregulated emotion taken out on them.

I feel like you have been legitimately abused, but that doesn’t mean everyone on this thread has.

I have an equal partner. If we were at the grocery store, he would be with me or near me, sharing the list. The list we made together. The meals we brainstormed together. If I had a spouse like the pp’s, who goes off and leaves her with 3 kids and the actual list to manage, buys food for just himself, cooks it for just himself without making sure the little ones are fed, and then doesn’t clean up…that would drive me crazy.

If you think that the person who is doing all the shopping for the family and then cleaning up after the person who just fended for themselves and didn’t even clean up after themselves expecting someone else to do it…you think they are the victim?? Because the person carrying the physical and mental load doesn’t do it without being upset??? You need to re-examine your life.

Honest question, if you’re both brainstorming and coming up with this list together, why the hell can’t you alternate who shops solo and who stays home with the three kids? Why the hell are you dragging the whole family of 5 to the grocery store? That’s insane, to be honest. Clearly it’s not working out.

Well, I only have two kids. But if we are going to the store as a whole family it’s most likely because we are doing it on the way home from somewhere else. It’s sometimes a more efficient use of time. Also, I think it’s good for kids to see where food comes from and that we pay for it and that we have choices. My kids went through a picky phase as toddlers and we spent a lot of time looking at produce and picking new things to try. Now they’re not picky. If they ask for something, I ask how much it costs, and we have a discussion over whether or not it’s a wise purchase. My kids have plenty, but I want them to be wise consumers when they are on their own. The girl on the thread that spent $400 on Sephora clearly doesn’t have an idea of what things cost for a family.

But yeah, if my spouse was absent even while there, I couldn’t do it. My dh could take one to get milk and dairy while I had one with the produce, etc. We weren’t all just crowding the aisles. It just worked out for us. I am grateful. I feel bad for so many couples that aren’t on the same page.

Anonymous wrote:the person can deserve to be yelled at AND the yelling can be dysfunctional, both at the same time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of abusers in this thread perfectly describing the abuser mindset and justification. If they lash out at their partner in any way it isn’t abuse because she or he did or didn’t do something that made them angry or frustrated and resentful and this led to them being unable to regulate their emotions so they took that anger or frustration or resentment out on their partner but it isn’t their fault and it isn’t abuse, because if he or she had just done or not done things to cause those emotions in the first place then they wouldn’t have had to have the dysregulated emotion taken out on them.

I feel like you have been legitimately abused, but that doesn’t mean everyone on this thread has.

I have an equal partner. If we were at the grocery store, he would be with me or near me, sharing the list. The list we made together. The meals we brainstormed together. If I had a spouse like the pp’s, who goes off and leaves her with 3 kids and the actual list to manage, buys food for just himself, cooks it for just himself without making sure the little ones are fed, and then doesn’t clean up…that would drive me crazy.

If you think that the person who is doing all the shopping for the family and then cleaning up after the person who just fended for themselves and didn’t even clean up after themselves expecting someone else to do it…you think they are the victim?? Because the person carrying the physical and mental load doesn’t do it without being upset??? You need to re-examine your life.

I meant…you think that the person fending for themselves and not cleaning up for themselves and expecting others to do so is the victim…

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The resentment that builds up when the adult that is supposed to be your partner in all the work of life instead bumbles around like they're somehow incapable or not responsible for anything forcing you to take the leadership role in EVERY. SINGLE. THING. and manage them through it is real. And results in things like regularly snapping at someone to do something because for the love of god you don't understand why they're not already doing something to help take care of everything / everyone

Obviously it's an unhealthy dynamic and I have no idea if your parent situation is this - but its a two person dynamic, not one person having a "personality disorder"

As an example my husband may join our 3 very young kids and me at the grocery store. He wonders off without a care in the world while I'm managing the kids and shopping for everything we need for the week. He may wonder back over with the ingredients for a meal he decided to cook for himself that afternoon that no one else likes and will take hours and leave the kitchen a mess. So yes what someone else may see is me snapping "can you just get the f'ing carrots and milk at least?!"

Again obviously not a health dynamic for anyone involved but also not just a me problem

My mom is also awful to my father - and has been for 53 years! She would say the same thing as you that she “deserves” to yell and belittle him because he has been doing the same dumb stuff for decades and she can’t take it.
Except there are two sides to everything and I can 100% vouch that she often yells and calls him dumb or an idiot for things that are her fault or are not actually wrong. She just immediately assumes that he messed up or she forgets that just because she thought it, doesn’t mean she said it out loud and we can’t read her mind. I have never once heard her acknowledge or apologize if she is wrong - or express appreciation or gratitude when someone manages to do something to her expectations.

My husband is not perfect - none of us are - but if I spoke to him the way my mom speaks to my dad he would stop listening to ever trying to do anything helpful. Why even try if you will get yelled anyway?

I feel sorry for your husband and if I was at the grocery store with you I would probably wander off to get away from you too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of abusers in this thread perfectly describing the abuser mindset and justification. If they lash out at their partner in any way it isn’t abuse because she or he did or didn’t do something that made them angry or frustrated and resentful and this led to them being unable to regulate their emotions so they took that anger or frustration or resentment out on their partner but it isn’t their fault and it isn’t abuse, because if he or she had just done or not done things to cause those emotions in the first place then they wouldn’t have had to have the dysregulated emotion taken out on them.

I feel like you have been legitimately abused, but that doesn’t mean everyone on this thread has.

I have an equal partner. If we were at the grocery store, he would be with me or near me, sharing the list. The list we made together. The meals we brainstormed together. If I had a spouse like the pp’s, who goes off and leaves her with 3 kids and the actual list to manage, buys food for just himself, cooks it for just himself without making sure the little ones are fed, and then doesn’t clean up…that would drive me crazy.

If you think that the person who is doing all the shopping for the family and then cleaning up after the person who just fended for themselves and didn’t even clean up after themselves expecting someone else to do it…you think they are the victim?? Because the person carrying the physical and mental load doesn’t do it without being upset??? You need to re-examine your life.

Anonymous wrote:The resentment that builds up when the adult that is supposed to be your partner in all the work of life instead bumbles around like they're somehow incapable or not responsible for anything forcing you to take the leadership role in EVERY. SINGLE. THING. and manage them through it is real. And results in things like regularly snapping at someone to do something because for the love of god you don't understand why they're not already doing something to help take care of everything / everyone

Obviously it's an unhealthy dynamic and I have no idea if your parent situation is this - but its a two person dynamic, not one person having a "personality disorder"

As an example my husband may join our 3 very young kids and me at the grocery store. He wonders off without a care in the world while I'm managing the kids and shopping for everything we need for the week. He may wonder back over with the ingredients for a meal he decided to cook for himself that afternoon that no one else likes and will take hours and leave the kitchen a mess. So yes what someone else may see is me snapping "can you just get the f'ing carrots and milk at least?!"

Again obviously not a health dynamic for anyone involved but also not just a me problem

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The resentment that builds up when the adult that is supposed to be your partner in all the work of life instead bumbles around like they're somehow incapable or not responsible for anything forcing you to take the leadership role in EVERY. SINGLE. THING. and manage them through it is real. And results in things like regularly snapping at someone to do something because for the love of god you don't understand why they're not already doing something to help take care of everything / everyone

Obviously it's an unhealthy dynamic and I have no idea if your parent situation is this - but its a two person dynamic, not one person having a "personality disorder"

As an example my husband may join our 3 very young kids and me at the grocery store. He wonders off without a care in the world while I'm managing the kids and shopping for everything we need for the week. He may wonder back over with the ingredients for a meal he decided to cook for himself that afternoon that no one else likes and will take hours and leave the kitchen a mess. So yes what someone else may see is me snapping "can you just get the f'ing carrots and milk at least?!"

Again obviously not a health dynamic for anyone involved but also not just a me problem

Yell at yourself you had 3 kids with him and you knew he was like this. Sounds like ADHD and you two need marital counseling.

Anonymous wrote:The resentment that builds up when the adult that is supposed to be your partner in all the work of life instead bumbles around like they're somehow incapable or not responsible for anything forcing you to take the leadership role in EVERY. SINGLE. THING. and manage them through it is real. And results in things like regularly snapping at someone to do something because for the love of god you don't understand why they're not already doing something to help take care of everything / everyone

Obviously it's an unhealthy dynamic and I have no idea if your parent situation is this - but its a two person dynamic, not one person having a "personality disorder"

As an example my husband may join our 3 very young kids and me at the grocery store. He wonders off without a care in the world while I'm managing the kids and shopping for everything we need for the week. He may wonder back over with the ingredients for a meal he decided to cook for himself that afternoon that no one else likes and will take hours and leave the kitchen a mess. So yes what someone else may see is me snapping "can you just get the f'ing carrots and milk at least?!"

Again obviously not a health dynamic for anyone involved but also not just a me problem

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of abusers in this thread perfectly describing the abuser mindset and justification. If they lash out at their partner in any way it isn’t abuse because she or he did or didn’t do something that made them angry or frustrated and resentful and this led to them being unable to regulate their emotions so they took that anger or frustration or resentment out on their partner but it isn’t their fault and it isn’t abuse, because if he or she had just done or not done things to cause those emotions in the first place then they wouldn’t have had to have the dysregulated emotion taken out on them.

I feel like you have been legitimately abused, but that doesn’t mean everyone on this thread has.

I have an equal partner. If we were at the grocery store, he would be with me or near me, sharing the list. The list we made together. The meals we brainstormed together. If I had a spouse like the pp’s, who goes off and leaves her with 3 kids and the actual list to manage, buys food for just himself, cooks it for just himself without making sure the little ones are fed, and then doesn’t clean up…that would drive me crazy.

If you think that the person who is doing all the shopping for the family and then cleaning up after the person who just fended for themselves and didn’t even clean up after themselves expecting someone else to do it…you think they are the victim?? Because the person carrying the physical and mental load doesn’t do it without being upset??? You need to re-examine your life.

Honest question, if you’re both brainstorming and coming up with this list together, why the hell can’t you alternate who shops solo and who stays home with the three kids? Why the hell are you dragging the whole family of 5 to the grocery store? That’s insane, to be honest. Clearly it’s not working out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of abusers in this thread perfectly describing the abuser mindset and justification. If they lash out at their partner in any way it isn’t abuse because she or he did or didn’t do something that made them angry or frustrated and resentful and this led to them being unable to regulate their emotions so they took that anger or frustration or resentment out on their partner but it isn’t their fault and it isn’t abuse, because if he or she had just done or not done things to cause those emotions in the first place then they wouldn’t have had to have the dysregulated emotion taken out on them.

I feel like you have been legitimately abused, but that doesn’t mean everyone on this thread has.

I have an equal partner. If we were at the grocery store, he would be with me or near me, sharing the list. The list we made together. The meals we brainstormed together. If I had a spouse like the pp’s, who goes off and leaves her with 3 kids and the actual list to manage, buys food for just himself, cooks it for just himself without making sure the little ones are fed, and then doesn’t clean up…that would drive me crazy.

If you think that the person who is doing all the shopping for the family and then cleaning up after the person who just fended for themselves and didn’t even clean up after themselves expecting someone else to do it…you think they are the victim?? Because the person carrying the physical and mental load doesn’t do it without being upset??? You need to re-examine your life.

Honest question, if you’re both brainstorming and coming up with this list together, why the hell can’t you alternate who shops solo and who stays home with the three kids? Why the hell are you dragging the whole family of 5 to the grocery store? That’s insane, to be honest. Clearly it’s not working out.