Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m just amazed that they continue to present in the front of the BOE and the Superintendent without basic info that anyone would ask as a follow-up. Maybe they didn’t get the message that us in corporate got, that “Who, What, When, Where, and How/How much” are the basic components. It’s great to have flowery language and pitch a story but if you don’t have information to back it up (particularly since presenting to a board is all about Oversight/Accountability/Approval) it’s pointless.

This, but also the board needs to do better follow-up. I've watched a lot of board meetings, and they go like this:

MCPS staff: Long flowery story that only sort of touches on the topic of the day

BoE member: Slightly challenging question for the sake of clarity

MCPS staff: Word salad edu-speak from their mail order EdD program that does not answer the question or provide clarity at all

BoE member: Fantastic, no further questions

Definitely need better followup. They have a whole site dedicated to followup but as you can see it hasn’t been updated in quite some time. Major questions/clarification from the meeting and answers should be documented along with any additional information that folks needed to go back to provide. That’s the whole purpose of having Followup/Old Business/Unfinished business/Previous Action Items section in meetings.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/boe/meetings/memorandum/

MCPS lost its ombudsman, maybe that role played a key position in pushing for follow-ups? But the fact that there haven’t been follow-up documents posted in months is very telling about how thorough of a job they’re doing over there.

I don't think you need an ombudsman for this. It's kind of basic project management.

So, let's say the BoE puts a topic on the agenda like "New ELA Curriculum: Feedback After 1 Year" and invites the elementary ELA lead to come present.

If there's a specific question the elementary lead cannot answer, like percentage gains in literacy, that goes on the list for follow-up. Then a BoE staff member follows up with Central Office after one week, two weeks, etc, each time requesting the document that was promised. Now, maybe the numbers aren't ready yet, but CO still owes a BoE a response even if it's an update on timing for all of the MAP-R scores to be collected/collated.

If the document has not materialized by the next meeting and no response has come from the Central Office, it is name and shame time.

Rinse and repeat.

You're right. There is basic administrative follow-up and failure here that is pretty inexcusable, especially since the BOE did get an infusion of staff recently precisely to enable the kind of follow-up you're outlining.

And if they are getting the followups then publishing it out to the public should be easy enough as that is closure of that communication loop.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep. Such as a counselor telling first-time-parents-of middle-schoolers that they (counselor) can not answer questions about middle school and that questions will be answered when MS counselors visit the ES. Parents don't attend the counselor visit day to meet 5th graders, so when do parents' questions get answered, damn counselor?

The 6th grade parent meeting or Orientation. Or a call to the MS counselor.

Nope. 6th grade parent meeting is before courses registration. Parents may not have questions at that time. Orientation is few days before school starts. Parents may not have questions at that time. Call a MS counselor when you don't know which MS you kid is going to attend (decisions don't come out until a certain date, remember Cram and company?) BUT a student and student's family does have a ES counselor at the school they attend until they leave that school who SHOULD be ABLE to field calls or emails. Duh.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m just amazed that they continue to present in the front of the BOE and the Superintendent without basic info that anyone would ask as a follow-up. Maybe they didn’t get the message that us in corporate got, that “Who, What, When, Where, and How/How much” are the basic components. It’s great to have flowery language and pitch a story but if you don’t have information to back it up (particularly since presenting to a board is all about Oversight/Accountability/Approval) it’s pointless.

This, but also the board needs to do better follow-up. I've watched a lot of board meetings, and they go like this:

MCPS staff: Long flowery story that only sort of touches on the topic of the day

BoE member: Slightly challenging question for the sake of clarity

MCPS staff: Word salad edu-speak from their mail order EdD program that does not answer the question or provide clarity at all

BoE member: Fantastic, no further questions

Definitely need better followup. They have a whole site dedicated to followup but as you can see it hasn’t been updated in quite some time. Major questions/clarification from the meeting and answers should be documented along with any additional information that folks needed to go back to provide. That’s the whole purpose of having Followup/Old Business/Unfinished business/Previous Action Items section in meetings.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/boe/meetings/memorandum/

MCPS lost its ombudsman, maybe that role played a key position in pushing for follow-ups? But the fact that there haven’t been follow-up documents posted in months is very telling about how thorough of a job they’re doing over there.

I don't think you need an ombudsman for this. It's kind of basic project management.

So, let's say the BoE puts a topic on the agenda like "New ELA Curriculum: Feedback After 1 Year" and invites the elementary ELA lead to come present.

If there's a specific question the elementary lead cannot answer, like percentage gains in literacy, that goes on the list for follow-up. Then a BoE staff member follows up with Central Office after one week, two weeks, etc, each time requesting the document that was promised. Now, maybe the numbers aren't ready yet, but CO still owes a BoE a response even if it's an update on timing for all of the MAP-R scores to be collected/collated.

If the document has not materialized by the next meeting and no response has come from the Central Office, it is name and shame time.

Rinse and repeat.

You're right. There is basic administrative follow-up and failure here that is pretty inexcusable, especially since the BOE did get an infusion of staff recently precisely to enable the kind of follow-up you're outlining.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m just amazed that they continue to present in the front of the BOE and the Superintendent without basic info that anyone would ask as a follow-up. Maybe they didn’t get the message that us in corporate got, that “Who, What, When, Where, and How/How much” are the basic components. It’s great to have flowery language and pitch a story but if you don’t have information to back it up (particularly since presenting to a board is all about Oversight/Accountability/Approval) it’s pointless.

This, but also the board needs to do better follow-up. I've watched a lot of board meetings, and they go like this:

MCPS staff: Long flowery story that only sort of touches on the topic of the day

BoE member: Slightly challenging question for the sake of clarity

MCPS staff: Word salad edu-speak from their mail order EdD program that does not answer the question or provide clarity at all

BoE member: Fantastic, no further questions

Yes- mcps educator here and I can't stand not getting a direct answer to a direct question from an administrator and get the EdD word salad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m just amazed that they continue to present in the front of the BOE and the Superintendent without basic info that anyone would ask as a follow-up. Maybe they didn’t get the message that us in corporate got, that “Who, What, When, Where, and How/How much” are the basic components. It’s great to have flowery language and pitch a story but if you don’t have information to back it up (particularly since presenting to a board is all about Oversight/Accountability/Approval) it’s pointless.

This, but also the board needs to do better follow-up. I've watched a lot of board meetings, and they go like this:

MCPS staff: Long flowery story that only sort of touches on the topic of the day

BoE member: Slightly challenging question for the sake of clarity

MCPS staff: Word salad edu-speak from their mail order EdD program that does not answer the question or provide clarity at all

BoE member: Fantastic, no further questions

Definitely need better followup. They have a whole site dedicated to followup but as you can see it hasn’t been updated in quite some time. Major questions/clarification from the meeting and answers should be documented along with any additional information that folks needed to go back to provide. That’s the whole purpose of having Followup/Old Business/Unfinished business/Previous Action Items section in meetings.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/boe/meetings/memorandum/

MCPS lost its ombudsman, maybe that role played a key position in pushing for follow-ups? But the fact that there haven’t been follow-up documents posted in months is very telling about how thorough of a job they’re doing over there.

I don't think you need an ombudsman for this. It's kind of basic project management.

So, let's say the BoE puts a topic on the agenda like "New ELA Curriculum: Feedback After 1 Year" and invites the elementary ELA lead to come present.

If there's a specific question the elementary lead cannot answer, like percentage gains in literacy, that goes on the list for follow-up. Then a BoE staff member follows up with Central Office after one week, two weeks, etc, each time requesting the document that was promised. Now, maybe the numbers aren't ready yet, but CO still owes a BoE a response even if it's an update on timing for all of the MAP-R scores to be collected/collated.

If the document has not materialized by the next meeting and no response has come from the Central Office, it is name and shame time.

Rinse and repeat.

Correction, covering up rape reports gets admin promoted,- it's so weird that teachers get fired when we report violence and admin gets promoted from no following protocol - the legality of covering up rape reports is questionable.

They need skills to support teachers and punish students when violent out bursts, cheating, and other negative behavior occurs. The day in age when everything is blamed on poorly paid and supported teachers is over because no one wants to teach in a corrupt system anymore. Teachers no longer want to be exploited scapegoats for dysfunctional systems anymore. Honestly , there should be a class action lawsuit that holds admin accountable for such things like cover ups and firing teachers who have no support with violent students. They ruin many young teacher careers while they cover up tape reports etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m just amazed that they continue to present in the front of the BOE and the Superintendent without basic info that anyone would ask as a follow-up. Maybe they didn’t get the message that us in corporate got, that “Who, What, When, Where, and How/How much” are the basic components. It’s great to have flowery language and pitch a story but if you don’t have information to back it up (particularly since presenting to a board is all about Oversight/Accountability/Approval) it’s pointless.

This, but also the board needs to do better follow-up. I've watched a lot of board meetings, and they go like this:

MCPS staff: Long flowery story that only sort of touches on the topic of the day

BoE member: Slightly challenging question for the sake of clarity

MCPS staff: Word salad edu-speak from their mail order EdD program that does not answer the question or provide clarity at all

BoE member: Fantastic, no further questions

Definitely need better followup. They have a whole site dedicated to followup but as you can see it hasn’t been updated in quite some time. Major questions/clarification from the meeting and answers should be documented along with any additional information that folks needed to go back to provide. That’s the whole purpose of having Followup/Old Business/Unfinished business/Previous Action Items section in meetings.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/boe/meetings/memorandum/

MCPS lost its ombudsman, maybe that role played a key position in pushing for follow-ups? But the fact that there haven’t been follow-up documents posted in months is very telling about how thorough of a job they’re doing over there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m just amazed that they continue to present in the front of the BOE and the Superintendent without basic info that anyone would ask as a follow-up. Maybe they didn’t get the message that us in corporate got, that “Who, What, When, Where, and How/How much” are the basic components. It’s great to have flowery language and pitch a story but if you don’t have information to back it up (particularly since presenting to a board is all about Oversight/Accountability/Approval) it’s pointless.

This, but also the board needs to do better follow-up. I've watched a lot of board meetings, and they go like this:

MCPS staff: Long flowery story that only sort of touches on the topic of the day

BoE member: Slightly challenging question for the sake of clarity

MCPS staff: Word salad edu-speak from their mail order EdD program that does not answer the question or provide clarity at all

BoE member: Fantastic, no further questions

Definitely need better followup. They have a whole site dedicated to followup but as you can see it hasn’t been updated in quite some time. Major questions/clarification from the meeting and answers should be documented along with any additional information that folks needed to go back to provide. That’s the whole purpose of having Followup/Old Business/Unfinished business/Previous Action Items section in meetings.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/boe/meetings/memorandum/

Anonymous wrote:I’m just amazed that they continue to present in the front of the BOE and the Superintendent without basic info that anyone would ask as a follow-up. Maybe they didn’t get the message that us in corporate got, that “Who, What, When, Where, and How/How much” are the basic components. It’s great to have flowery language and pitch a story but if you don’t have information to back it up (particularly since presenting to a board is all about Oversight/Accountability/Approval) it’s pointless.

This, but also the board needs to do better follow-up. I've watched a lot of board meetings, and they go like this:

MCPS staff: Long flowery story that only sort of touches on the topic of the day

BoE member: Slightly challenging question for the sake of clarity

MCPS staff: Word salad edu-speak from their mail order EdD program that does not answer the question or provide clarity at all

BoE member: Fantastic, no further questions

I’m just amazed that they continue to present in the front of the BOE and the Superintendent without basic info that anyone would ask as a follow-up. Maybe they didn’t get the message that us in corporate got, that “Who, What, When, Where, and How/How much” are the basic components. It’s great to have flowery language and pitch a story but if you don’t have information to back it up (particularly since presenting to a board is all about Oversight/Accountability/Approval) it’s pointless.

Anonymous wrote:Yep. Such as a counselor telling first-time-parents-of middle-schoolers that they (counselor) can not answer questions about middle school and that questions will be answered when MS counselors visit the ES. Parents don't attend the counselor visit day to meet 5th graders, so when do parents' questions get answered, damn counselor?

The 6th grade parent meeting or Orientation. Or a call to the MS counselor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority are just not smart people.

The brutal, but honest truth of the matter. The level of incompetence that is tolerated and even celebrated in MCPS makes me feel like I'm existing in an alternate reality.

I could have written the exact same thing.
I'm regretful and embarrassed that we stayed in this school system. Every encounter I have with staff at the counselor or admin level is shockingly ....... stupid. I know that is a very harsh word but there is no other way to say it. Combine that with the apathy and it's just a sad place.

Agree. Our school does not have a class for my child for next year and the counselor and admin told me to figure it out.

Is this a math class and your child has finished the sequence offered at your local school?

I have, in general, had pretty good experiences with school-level administration. Maybe I don't get exactly what I want, but they are responsive within the confines of not being able to create a bespoke curriculum for one child.

Where I've seen much larger issues, and lack of accountability, is at the Central Office level. I'm guessing that's what the OP was talking about. They are just very very bad at if/then analysis in ways are are really harmful to students and families.

To take an easy example, look at the schools that lost Title I funding last year.

MCPS Central Office staff made a decision to tell the neediest schools in MCPS that they no longer needed to collect FARMS forms, since every kid would get free lunch instead. Instead, the district decided to rely on other indicators of poverty, such as Medicaid sign-ups.

Now, any person who has any familiarity with characteristics of poverty in Montgomery County, or any ability to look six months out into the future, could have told you the problem with that strategy. All it would have taken is one person in a position of authority to throw the brakes and ask some questions. Instead, we got a bad system that produced bad outcomes and led to a bunch of scrambling and the need to cover those costs from other budgets.

I'm not the OP, but when I talk about incompetence at the Central Office, this is the sort of thing I mean. Failure to think critically, failure to plan, failure to ask questions.

I work in the nonprofit direct service sector, and make a lot less money than the senior folks at MCPS making these plans, and I could have told them that relying on indicators of poverty that are explicitly linked to "having US citizenship" was going to produce a bad outcome. Moreover, if I made a mistake that cost my employer almost $1m and resulted in weeks of lost staff time, not to mention a loss of services for our most vulnerable clients, I would have lost my job.

+

Yep. Such as a counselor telling first-time-parents-of middle-schoolers that they (counselor) can not answer questions about middle school and that questions will be answered when MS counselors visit the ES. Parents don't attend the counselor visit day to meet 5th graders, so when do parents' questions get answered, damn counselor?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority are just not smart people.

The brutal, but honest truth of the matter. The level of incompetence that is tolerated and even celebrated in MCPS makes me feel like I'm existing in an alternate reality.

I could have written the exact same thing.
I'm regretful and embarrassed that we stayed in this school system. Every encounter I have with staff at the counselor or admin level is shockingly ....... stupid. I know that is a very harsh word but there is no other way to say it. Combine that with the apathy and it's just a sad place.

Agree. Our school does not have a class for my child for next year and the counselor and admin told me to figure it out.

Is this a math class and your child has finished the sequence offered at your local school?

I have, in general, had pretty good experiences with school-level administration. Maybe I don't get exactly what I want, but they are responsive within the confines of not being able to create a bespoke curriculum for one child.

Where I've seen much larger issues, and lack of accountability, is at the Central Office level. I'm guessing that's what the OP was talking about. They are just very very bad at if/then analysis in ways are are really harmful to students and families.

To take an easy example, look at the schools that lost Title I funding last year.

MCPS Central Office staff made a decision to tell the neediest schools in MCPS that they no longer needed to collect FARMS forms, since every kid would get free lunch instead. Instead, the district decided to rely on other indicators of poverty, such as Medicaid sign-ups.

Now, any person who has any familiarity with characteristics of poverty in Montgomery County, or any ability to look six months out into the future, could have told you the problem with that strategy. All it would have taken is one person in a position of authority to throw the brakes and ask some questions. Instead, we got a bad system that produced bad outcomes and led to a bunch of scrambling and the need to cover those costs from other budgets.

I'm not the OP, but when I talk about incompetence at the Central Office, this is the sort of thing I mean. Failure to think critically, failure to plan, failure to ask questions.

I work in the nonprofit direct service sector, and make a lot less money than the senior folks at MCPS making these plans, and I could have told them that relying on indicators of poverty that are explicitly linked to "having US citizenship" was going to produce a bad outcome. Moreover, if I made a mistake that cost my employer almost $1m and resulted in weeks of lost staff time, not to mention a loss of services for our most vulnerable clients, I would have lost my job.