Anonymous
Post 09/26/2024 14:39     Subject: Top universities are “top” essentially because of professional schools?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So I’ve noticed this thing with college rankings and it appears that the universities we consider to be “top” are top because of specifically business and law school rankings ( medical school is a different). With the exception of a handful of privates like Johns Hopkins or Rice, along with the ivies of Princeton and Brown, most universities derive their reputations primarily from just these two subjects. Take UVA for example. Historically, it is not well known in either stem or humanities quite frankly. Just compare their department rankings in economics or history to the more historically prestigious Michigan and Wisconsin. But, UVA is seen as comparable and even better than those two, based purely on business and law schools. Furthermore, undergraduate selectivity seems to be primarily generated through competitive pre law/pre-mba finance bros.


I don't know where yale would be without their law school


Would still be in a slum in New Haven.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2024 14:36     Subject: Top universities are “top” essentially because of professional schools?
Anonymous wrote:So I’ve noticed this thing with college rankings and it appears that the universities we consider to be “top” are top because of specifically business and law school rankings ( medical school is a different). With the exception of a handful of privates like Johns Hopkins or Rice, along with the ivies of Princeton and Brown, most universities derive their reputations primarily from just these two subjects. Take UVA for example. Historically, it is not well known in either stem or humanities quite frankly. Just compare their department rankings in economics or history to the more historically prestigious Michigan and Wisconsin. But, UVA is seen as comparable and even better than those two, based purely on business and law schools. Furthermore, undergraduate selectivity seems to be primarily generated through competitive pre law/pre-mba finance bros.


In economics, at my two schools, the same professors taught masters and undergrad courses (and were PhD dissertation advisors, of course). The undergrad had a business school, the econ profs were in the Arts and Science school but Business students could take econ as a major. At the PhD school, there was not a business school. But either way - the level of the post-grad program absolutely meant the undergrads were benefitting.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2024 14:29     Subject: Top universities are “top” essentially because of professional schools?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's T14 but not T4.


There is no top 4 only Top 6 for law schools and top 14. Top 6 has 7 schools--Yale Stanford Harvard Chicago Columbia NYU and now Penn is inching it's way up and some put it in there.

But you knew that?



Of course there is a top 4. See rankings here. Duke, Harvard, Penn UvA tied for 4.

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings



Duke and UVA at #4. Totally laughable.



and you know better? Also UVA was just ranked no 1 law school for best professors and teaching by Princeton review
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2024 14:27     Subject: Top universities are “top” essentially because of professional schools?
Anonymous wrote:So I’ve noticed this thing with college rankings and it appears that the universities we consider to be “top” are top because of specifically business and law school rankings ( medical school is a different). With the exception of a handful of privates like Johns Hopkins or Rice, along with the ivies of Princeton and Brown, most universities derive their reputations primarily from just these two subjects. Take UVA for example. Historically, it is not well known in either stem or humanities quite frankly. Just compare their department rankings in economics or history to the more historically prestigious Michigan and Wisconsin. But, UVA is seen as comparable and even better than those two, based purely on business and law schools. Furthermore, undergraduate selectivity seems to be primarily generated through competitive pre law/pre-mba finance bros.




Say what? Michigan and UVA undergrad are neck-and-neck at 21 and 24. Wisconsin is far below at 39. When you look at the rankings of our nation's top publics, again, you have Michigan and UVA neck-and-neck at 3 and 4 and Wisconsin way down the list. That's evaluated for undergrad performance. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2024 14:27     Subject: Top universities are “top” essentially because of professional schools?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's T14 but not T4.


There is no top 4 only Top 6 for law schools and top 14. Top 6 has 7 schools--Yale Stanford Harvard Chicago Columbia NYU and now Penn is inching it's way up and some put it in there.

But you knew that?



Of course there is a top 4. See rankings here. Duke, Harvard, Penn UvA tied for 4. https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings



Duke and UVA at #4. Totally laughable.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2024 14:19     Subject: Top universities are “top” essentially because of professional schools?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:All I knew was I went to GW for undergrad and law school students used to complain that the undergrad is holding back a higher ranking of the law school.


To be fair, all law schools have a tendency to produce more than their fair share of successful alumni for the institution. Harvard law produces more movers and shakers in world affairs (heads of state, senators, NGO), high finance, business, filmmakers, judiciary, etc... than Harvard undergrad ever does, to be honest. BUT that's just a function of trying to pick people when their 17 vs 23+ and at a different stage of life. With some notable exceptions, the "tech talent" is often doing PHD work. It doesn't mean that it rubs off on the undergrad rankings...it's just different.

I can't really imagine that UG and Professional school rankings feed off each other this way. Princeton is doing great, for example.



Disagree, and you seem to have forgotten all about the leaders coming out of the Kennedy School, which offers undergrads special courses in public policy and world affairs.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2024 14:14     Subject: Top universities are “top” essentially because of professional schools?
Anonymous wrote:All I knew was I went to GW for undergrad and law school students used to complain that the undergrad is holding back a higher ranking of the law school.



that makes no sense inasmuch as tgey are ranked separately.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2024 14:12     Subject: Top universities are “top” essentially because of professional schools?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's T14 but not T4.


There is no top 4 only Top 6 for law schools and top 14. Top 6 has 7 schools--Yale Stanford Harvard Chicago Columbia NYU and now Penn is inching it's way up and some put it in there.

But you knew that?



Of course there is a top 4. See rankings here. Duke, Harvard, Penn UvA tied for 4. https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2024 14:12     Subject: Top universities are “top” essentially because of professional schools?
No
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2024 14:09     Subject: Top universities are “top” essentially because of professional schools?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So I’ve noticed this thing with college rankings and it appears that the universities we consider to be “top” are top because of specifically business and law school rankings ( medical school is a different). With the exception of a handful of privates like Johns Hopkins or Rice, along with the ivies of Princeton and Brown, most universities derive their reputations primarily from just these two subjects. Take UVA for example. Historically, it is not well known in either stem or humanities quite frankly. Just compare their department rankings in economics or history to the more historically prestigious Michigan and Wisconsin. But, UVA is seen as comparable and even better than those two, based purely on business and law schools. Furthermore, undergraduate selectivity seems to be primarily generated through competitive pre law/pre-mba finance bros.



You're mistaken. Quite a few "elite" American universities don't have top tier business or law schools - Princeton, CalTech, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Brown, West Point, Annapolis, Williams, Amherst, Carnegie Mellon to name a few.

I'll grant you UVA though. Excellent law and business school.

And some are really well known in one graduate field and not the other. Or don't do it. Like Dartmouth and business. But no law school.


Duke currently has the #4 Law School and #12 business school according to U.S. News.



No one in law actually considers Duke a top 4 law school. harvard, yale, stanford, penn, chicago, northwestern, michigan, NYU, boalt, all out class it. This shows in the entering class stats as well.


People "in law" don't have intelligent opinions that are formed independent of US News. For as long as US News has been around, HLS has always had the absolute #1 Peer ratings (sometimes tied with Yale). But when US News changed the formula to heavily factor expenditure per student, they ensured that all smaller law schools would go up in rankings and HLS would go down. In the 1960s Yale made the curriculum kinder and gentler and thus started taking away many students who previously would have chosen Harvard. All of Yale's faculty stars are now at retirement age, and HLS is on the upswing again in terms of superb faculty quality, not to mention HLS' exceptional depth and breadth, and a general increase in quality of life (no grades). but it makes no difference until the USNEWS gods decide to change their bizarre quantitative weighting of various factors, which they will never do.

Duke is always regarded as a top law school by everyone. But a smart group of people might figure out that USNEWS is complete pile of crap. and should probably be ignored. This is DCUM, so unfortunately, this crowd will never figure it out.



But Harvard does have "grades" - it simply swapped out A,B,C D, fail for "dean's scholar, honirs, pass, low pass and fail"
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2024 14:00     Subject: Top universities are “top” essentially because of professional schools?
Anonymous wrote:What’s your basis for this claim? USNWR rankings are for undergraduate programs. Law schools have their own separate rankings. I don’t think a law school ranking directly correlates to the same school’s undergrad ranking or reputation. If someone didn’t go to law school, I don’t assume something about their undergrad degree based on that college’s law school program (that would make no sense).



+1. This. The undergrad, grad and professional schools are separately ranked
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2024 09:45     Subject: Top universities are “top” essentially because of professional schools?
The thread is idiotic because three of the top 10 schools don't have much in the way of professional schools (Princeton, MIT, CalTech). Yeah, MIT has Sloane MBA, but that's not really what anyone first associates with MIT.

Also, STEM is such a major component of schools these days for which there is no professional school, though of course PhD and other graduate programs.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2024 08:52     Subject: Top universities are “top” essentially because of professional schools?
Anonymous wrote:So I’ve noticed this thing with college rankings and it appears that the universities we consider to be “top” are top because of specifically business and law school rankings ( medical school is a different). With the exception of a handful of privates like Johns Hopkins or Rice, along with the ivies of Princeton and Brown, most universities derive their reputations primarily from just these two subjects. Take UVA for example. Historically, it is not well known in either stem or humanities quite frankly. Just compare their department rankings in economics or history to the more historically prestigious Michigan and Wisconsin. But, UVA is seen as comparable and even better than those two, based purely on business and law schools. Furthermore, undergraduate selectivity seems to be primarily generated through competitive pre law/pre-mba finance bros.


The ranking of undergraduate schools more closely correlates with "total endowment funds" and "endowment per student" than with any graduate program.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2024 08:50     Subject: Top universities are “top” essentially because of professional schools?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So I’ve noticed this thing with college rankings and it appears that the universities we consider to be “top” are top because of specifically business and law school rankings ( medical school is a different). With the exception of a handful of privates like Johns Hopkins or Rice, along with the ivies of Princeton and Brown, most universities derive their reputations primarily from just these two subjects. Take UVA for example. Historically, it is not well known in either stem or humanities quite frankly. Just compare their department rankings in economics or history to the more historically prestigious Michigan and Wisconsin. But, UVA is seen as comparable and even better than those two, based purely on business and law schools. Furthermore, undergraduate selectivity seems to be primarily generated through competitive pre law/pre-mba finance bros.



You're mistaken. Quite a few "elite" American universities don't have top tier business or law schools - Princeton, CalTech, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Brown, West Point, Annapolis, Williams, Amherst, Carnegie Mellon to name a few.

I'll grant you UVA though. Excellent law and business school.

And some are really well known in one graduate field and not the other. Or don't do it. Like Dartmouth and business. But no law school.


The service academies aren't really top of anything in terms of academics.


Military strategy ?
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2024 08:24     Subject: Top universities are “top” essentially because of professional schools?
This thread is so dumb.