Anonymous
09/17/2024 21:57
Subject: Pros/cons of quitting in HS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:From what I understand there are teams that require far fewer hours per week, at all levels. They don’t produce nearly as many top swimmers, but I wonder if this is the right path to avoid burnout. These more intense teams seem to require so much of these kids who already have so many demands on them. Why is swim culture like this?
There are clubs whose top groups do have fewer hours (probably equivalent number of workouts but fewer total hours per week). They still crank out collegiate swimmers but fewer D1. Take this with a grain of salt, but I’ve heard that some college coaches look for the kids that are fast without requiring that many hours. It means they probably still have room to improve in college when those hours are added in (they’re not maxing out their potential in high school). You still have to be pretty freaking fast to be considered at all, though … I’d love to hear a college swimming parent’s perspective on this.
My D1 kid is swimming a similar number of hours, if not less, than HS. Part of the reason is the NCAA limit which is 20h (or close to it I believe). Training is different, more weight training for example.
Anonymous
09/17/2024 21:52
Subject: Pros/cons of quitting in HS
Anonymous wrote:From what I understand there are teams that require far fewer hours per week, at all levels. They don’t produce nearly as many top swimmers, but I wonder if this is the right path to avoid burnout. These more intense teams seem to require so much of these kids who already have so many demands on them. Why is swim culture like this?
If you look at the top/comparable level HS swimmers at DMV clubs, I think that you would find their pool time is more similar than different.
I also think other sports at this level have kids training 2-3h/5-6d per week. One big difference is longer between season breaks. Swimmers get about 6w total off in 12m. And very few sports are doing the super early mornings. Those factors can contribute to burnout for sure. But not every kid who exits is burned out, sometimes they’re just growing out of it, moving on, want to spend time in a different way.
I have more than one kid who went through the exact same program. Only one swims in college. The one who does chose to balance academics in a different way in HS.
Anonymous
09/17/2024 21:40
Subject: Pros/cons of quitting in HS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t mean to hijack, but as a parent of an high level 12 U swimmer (think PVS Champs A finalist in multiple events), what do you all think has caused your kids to get to the point where they want to give up the sport? My swimmer right now wants to swim D1, and is on that trajectory, but I’m curious to know from others in that situation what changed their kids’ mindset?
OP here. My kid was all in for 5+ years. Swam NCSAs, Zones, Futures, etc. Most of her life revolved around the sport, including social life. But intensity and frequency of training in first year of HS made her rethink. As a PP described, kids at this level miss out on a lot of other activities because they have to go to bed early and wake up early and swim every day after school. I just think that routine for 3 more years was not what she wanted anymore.
Do you mind sharing what her training schedule was?
Also curious about this. And how old she was when she started year round swim.
DP but I am happy to outline our experience, which I will openly say was RMSC because each club has some differences.
Started club swimming in 1st grade (minis), 1h 2 evenings per week.
Advanced juniors at 9, 2 evenings, 1 weekend morning. I think these practices were 1:15 during the week, 1:30 for the weekend. Regularly continued at least one other sport/activity - soccer, basketball, chess club, etc.
Commitment picked up for advanced MS group - 4 weekday evenings (~2h), 1 weekend morning (2.5h). There was an early morning weekday available, but optional. Kids went to that practice if they missed a weeknight in general. My kids continued other sports, sometimes travel level, through MS. Our coaches were very supportive of this.
When they get to HS, the most advance group (NTG) trains every day after school (~2.5h) and Saturday mornings (2.5-3h). They are also expected to swim 1-2 early mornings before school for a total of 7-8 swims per week.
The next group (Advanced Seniors) has a similar schedule, with slightly shorter practices, and about 6 swims expected per week.
There is also a less intense group (Seniors) where kids swim fewer, shorter practices with a lot of flexibility.
OP here. We were same club, so same training schedule as this poster outlines in such good detail. DD started at AdJ level as a 9 and was in most advanced training group/schedule in first year of HS.
The jump from 2 weeknights and one morning to 4 weeknights and one morning is a big one. What age does that happen typically?
End of 5th grade/beginning of 6th at RMSC
But also IME, kids are adding a third weeknight if possible (and appear to be on that path) during 5th grade.
One of the things I loved about RMSC was more practices on schedule than required. For example, advanced juniors had 5 practices, with 3 expected/required. This allowed for some flexibility as well as adding this day as a transition.
Anonymous
09/17/2024 17:46
Subject: Pros/cons of quitting in HS
Anonymous wrote:From what I understand there are teams that require far fewer hours per week, at all levels. They don’t produce nearly as many top swimmers, but I wonder if this is the right path to avoid burnout. These more intense teams seem to require so much of these kids who already have so many demands on them. Why is swim culture like this?
There are clubs whose top groups do have fewer hours (probably equivalent number of workouts but fewer total hours per week). They still crank out collegiate swimmers but fewer D1. Take this with a grain of salt, but I’ve heard that some college coaches look for the kids that are fast without requiring that many hours. It means they probably still have room to improve in college when those hours are added in (they’re not maxing out their potential in high school). You still have to be pretty freaking fast to be considered at all, though … I’d love to hear a college swimming parent’s perspective on this.
Anonymous
09/17/2024 17:15
Subject: Pros/cons of quitting in HS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t mean to hijack, but as a parent of an high level 12 U swimmer (think PVS Champs A finalist in multiple events), what do you all think has caused your kids to get to the point where they want to give up the sport? My swimmer right now wants to swim D1, and is on that trajectory, but I’m curious to know from others in that situation what changed their kids’ mindset?
OP here. My kid was all in for 5+ years. Swam NCSAs, Zones, Futures, etc. Most of her life revolved around the sport, including social life. But intensity and frequency of training in first year of HS made her rethink. As a PP described, kids at this level miss out on a lot of other activities because they have to go to bed early and wake up early and swim every day after school. I just think that routine for 3 more years was not what she wanted anymore.
Do you mind sharing what her training schedule was?
Also curious about this. And how old she was when she started year round swim.
DP but I am happy to outline our experience, which I will openly say was RMSC because each club has some differences.
Started club swimming in 1st grade (minis), 1h 2 evenings per week.
Advanced juniors at 9, 2 evenings, 1 weekend morning. I think these practices were 1:15 during the week, 1:30 for the weekend. Regularly continued at least one other sport/activity - soccer, basketball, chess club, etc.
Commitment picked up for advanced MS group - 4 weekday evenings (~2h), 1 weekend morning (2.5h). There was an early morning weekday available, but optional. Kids went to that practice if they missed a weeknight in general. My kids continued other sports, sometimes travel level, through MS. Our coaches were very supportive of this.
When they get to HS, the most advance group (NTG) trains every day after school (~2.5h) and Saturday mornings (2.5-3h). They are also expected to swim 1-2 early mornings before school for a total of 7-8 swims per week.
The next group (Advanced Seniors) has a similar schedule, with slightly shorter practices, and about 6 swims expected per week.
There is also a less intense group (Seniors) where kids swim fewer, shorter practices with a lot of flexibility.
OP here. We were same club, so same training schedule as this poster outlines in such good detail. DD started at AdJ level as a 9 and was in most advanced training group/schedule in first year of HS.
The jump from 2 weeknights and one morning to 4 weeknights and one morning is a big one. What age does that happen typically?
Anonymous
09/17/2024 17:14
Subject: Pros/cons of quitting in HS
From what I understand there are teams that require far fewer hours per week, at all levels. They don’t produce nearly as many top swimmers, but I wonder if this is the right path to avoid burnout. These more intense teams seem to require so much of these kids who already have so many demands on them. Why is swim culture like this?
Anonymous
09/17/2024 14:58
Subject: Pros/cons of quitting in HS
Not uncommon for kids to burnout of year-round swimming and quit in high school.
The training is a time-consuming grind and usually involves getting up before dawn several days a week. This does not come naturally to the teenage body!
On top of that, in high school academics get harder and more time consuming and social opportunities (and pressures) multiply and magnify. In short, there are many more things competing for their time, and many of them are more appealing than a grueling training regimen.
At 12 they are happy to do year round because they see great improvement in their times and it makes for a more successful summer swim season at their community pool. As high school-age kids their times are likely to flatline or even get worse (bodies change in puberty). And summer swim doesn't have the pull it once did because by the high school years most of their friends who aren't super serious swimmers have dropped off the summer team and moved on to other things. Eyeball your summer team at a meet and you'll see that the vast majority of the kids are 12 and unders.
The training is a time-consuming grind and usually involves getting up before dawn several days a week. This does not come naturally to the teenage body!
On top of that, in high school academics get harder and more time consuming and social opportunities (and pressures) multiply and magnify. In short, there are many more things competing for their time, and many of them are more appealing than a grueling training regimen.
At 12 they are happy to do year round because they see great improvement in their times and it makes for a more successful summer swim season at their community pool. As high school-age kids their times are likely to flatline or even get worse (bodies change in puberty). And summer swim doesn't have the pull it once did because by the high school years most of their friends who aren't super serious swimmers have dropped off the summer team and moved on to other things. Eyeball your summer team at a meet and you'll see that the vast majority of the kids are 12 and unders.
Anonymous
09/17/2024 14:36
Subject: Pros/cons of quitting in HS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t mean to hijack, but as a parent of an high level 12 U swimmer (think PVS Champs A finalist in multiple events), what do you all think has caused your kids to get to the point where they want to give up the sport? My swimmer right now wants to swim D1, and is on that trajectory, but I’m curious to know from others in that situation what changed their kids’ mindset?
OP here. My kid was all in for 5+ years. Swam NCSAs, Zones, Futures, etc. Most of her life revolved around the sport, including social life. But intensity and frequency of training in first year of HS made her rethink. As a PP described, kids at this level miss out on a lot of other activities because they have to go to bed early and wake up early and swim every day after school. I just think that routine for 3 more years was not what she wanted anymore.
Do you mind sharing what her training schedule was?
Also curious about this. And how old she was when she started year round swim.
DP but I am happy to outline our experience, which I will openly say was RMSC because each club has some differences.
Started club swimming in 1st grade (minis), 1h 2 evenings per week.
Advanced juniors at 9, 2 evenings, 1 weekend morning. I think these practices were 1:15 during the week, 1:30 for the weekend. Regularly continued at least one other sport/activity - soccer, basketball, chess club, etc.
Commitment picked up for advanced MS group - 4 weekday evenings (~2h), 1 weekend morning (2.5h). There was an early morning weekday available, but optional. Kids went to that practice if they missed a weeknight in general. My kids continued other sports, sometimes travel level, through MS. Our coaches were very supportive of this.
When they get to HS, the most advance group (NTG) trains every day after school (~2.5h) and Saturday mornings (2.5-3h). They are also expected to swim 1-2 early mornings before school for a total of 7-8 swims per week.
The next group (Advanced Seniors) has a similar schedule, with slightly shorter practices, and about 6 swims expected per week.
There is also a less intense group (Seniors) where kids swim fewer, shorter practices with a lot of flexibility.
OP here. We were same club, so same training schedule as this poster outlines in such good detail. DD started at AdJ level as a 9 and was in most advanced training group/schedule in first year of HS.
Anonymous
09/17/2024 14:12
Subject: Pros/cons of quitting in HS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t mean to hijack, but as a parent of an high level 12 U swimmer (think PVS Champs A finalist in multiple events), what do you all think has caused your kids to get to the point where they want to give up the sport? My swimmer right now wants to swim D1, and is on that trajectory, but I’m curious to know from others in that situation what changed their kids’ mindset?
OP here. My kid was all in for 5+ years. Swam NCSAs, Zones, Futures, etc. Most of her life revolved around the sport, including social life. But intensity and frequency of training in first year of HS made her rethink. As a PP described, kids at this level miss out on a lot of other activities because they have to go to bed early and wake up early and swim every day after school. I just think that routine for 3 more years was not what she wanted anymore.
Do you mind sharing what her training schedule was?
Also curious about this. And how old she was when she started year round swim.
DP but I am happy to outline our experience, which I will openly say was RMSC because each club has some differences.
Started club swimming in 1st grade (minis), 1h 2 evenings per week.
Advanced juniors at 9, 2 evenings, 1 weekend morning. I think these practices were 1:15 during the week, 1:30 for the weekend. Regularly continued at least one other sport/activity - soccer, basketball, chess club, etc.
Commitment picked up for advanced MS group - 4 weekday evenings (~2h), 1 weekend morning (2.5h). There was an early morning weekday available, but optional. Kids went to that practice if they missed a weeknight in general. My kids continued other sports, sometimes travel level, through MS. Our coaches were very supportive of this.
When they get to HS, the most advance group (NTG) trains every day after school (~2.5h) and Saturday mornings (2.5-3h). They are also expected to swim 1-2 early mornings before school for a total of 7-8 swims per week.
The next group (Advanced Seniors) has a similar schedule, with slightly shorter practices, and about 6 swims expected per week.
There is also a less intense group (Seniors) where kids swim fewer, shorter practices with a lot of flexibility.
Anonymous
09/17/2024 13:52
Subject: Pros/cons of quitting in HS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t mean to hijack, but as a parent of an high level 12 U swimmer (think PVS Champs A finalist in multiple events), what do you all think has caused your kids to get to the point where they want to give up the sport? My swimmer right now wants to swim D1, and is on that trajectory, but I’m curious to know from others in that situation what changed their kids’ mindset?
Parent of a 13 year old club swimmer here. What are the pros and cons of swimming in HS? Seems like a lot to juggle between November and February right in the thick of the SC season in the lead up to champs. If his goal to swim in college (could be D3), do college coaches/teams care/pay attention to your HS times?
It can be a lot in January and February with so many meets, but on one hand the racing experience can be good since they generally don't race so often. HS meets are also much less swimming than club meets with entry limits and such. It also depends a bit on what level of club swimming the kid is doing. The highest level in our club, kids were practicing Saturday mornings before some meets, but that is not the case for every group.
The majority of HS teams around here (I cannot speak to VA expectations, but I'm referring to DC/MD public and private) do not expect club swimmers to practice with HS teams. There are different rules for MCPS teams vs. private school coaches, but in general, the kids are not swimming extra for HS coaches.
Anonymous
09/17/2024 13:44
Subject: Pros/cons of quitting in HS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t mean to hijack, but as a parent of an high level 12 U swimmer (think PVS Champs A finalist in multiple events), what do you all think has caused your kids to get to the point where they want to give up the sport? My swimmer right now wants to swim D1, and is on that trajectory, but I’m curious to know from others in that situation what changed their kids’ mindset?
OP here. My kid was all in for 5+ years. Swam NCSAs, Zones, Futures, etc. Most of her life revolved around the sport, including social life. But intensity and frequency of training in first year of HS made her rethink. As a PP described, kids at this level miss out on a lot of other activities because they have to go to bed early and wake up early and swim every day after school. I just think that routine for 3 more years was not what she wanted anymore.
Do you mind sharing what her training schedule was?
Also curious about this. And how old she was when she started year round swim.
Anonymous
09/17/2024 11:32
Subject: Pros/cons of quitting in HS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t mean to hijack, but as a parent of an high level 12 U swimmer (think PVS Champs A finalist in multiple events), what do you all think has caused your kids to get to the point where they want to give up the sport? My swimmer right now wants to swim D1, and is on that trajectory, but I’m curious to know from others in that situation what changed their kids’ mindset?
OP here. My kid was all in for 5+ years. Swam NCSAs, Zones, Futures, etc. Most of her life revolved around the sport, including social life. But intensity and frequency of training in first year of HS made her rethink. As a PP described, kids at this level miss out on a lot of other activities because they have to go to bed early and wake up early and swim every day after school. I just think that routine for 3 more years was not what she wanted anymore.
Do you mind sharing what her training schedule was?
Anonymous
09/17/2024 10:14
Subject: Re:Pros/cons of quitting in HS
Anonymous wrote:Did any parents of high level swimmers who quit have irrational worries or anxiety about it? Like, worries that your swimmer would lose all the obvious physical benefits of the sport such as fitness? Or the benefits of having a structured schedule that minimized potentially more risky activities like parties, etc.? How much did you guide your ex swimmer through the transition? What's ok to say and what's not?
I think this is very common. Often when a kid finally tells parent they want to quit, they've been thinking about it for a long time, etc., so it seems easy for the kid. But it's really hard on the parent to come to terms with. Don't feel bad about being anxious, etc. Totally normal, but you will adjust. And you'll feel better once you see your kid getting more sleep, trying new things, etc.
Anonymous
09/17/2024 05:28
Subject: Pros/cons of quitting in HS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t mean to hijack, but as a parent of an high level 12 U swimmer (think PVS Champs A finalist in multiple events), what do you all think has caused your kids to get to the point where they want to give up the sport? My swimmer right now wants to swim D1, and is on that trajectory, but I’m curious to know from others in that situation what changed their kids’ mindset?
Parent of a 13 year old club swimmer here. What are the pros and cons of swimming in HS? Seems like a lot to juggle between November and February right in the thick of the SC season in the lead up to champs. If his goal to swim in college (could be D3), do college coaches/teams care/pay attention to your HS times?
HS swim is totally different. It is a lot more fun because it is a team event not just an individual one. Plus it has relays which are always fun. And silly traditions.
Anonymous
09/16/2024 16:43
Subject: Re:Pros/cons of quitting in HS
Did any parents of high level swimmers who quit have irrational worries or anxiety about it? Like, worries that your swimmer would lose all the obvious physical benefits of the sport such as fitness? Or the benefits of having a structured schedule that minimized potentially more risky activities like parties, etc.? How much did you guide your ex swimmer through the transition? What's ok to say and what's not?