Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data on where kids who leave the TS schools go is fascinating. If you look at the pathways data there is no rhyme or reason. There is no single school where 10+ kids go. And lots of schools <10 where kids go. The story seems to be "anywhere but here".

a lot of them go back to PG county where they live.

Lots can be said about TR. This isn't one of their issues.

that’s not what I heard … most Hill charters in NE have MANY MD plates at drop-off because they are on the commuting route from PG …

But what percent of those involve co-parents where one lives in the district or are kids who live at least part time with a grandparent (where the grandparent lives in MD but custodial parent is in DC, or where the grandparent lives in DC and has custody of the child a significant amount of time). He really at least one of these things are true and none of these cases would be considered residency fraud because the child is a resident of DC at least some of the time.

There’s a lot of residency fraud.

I genuinely don't think there's a lot of residency fraud at TR.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data on where kids who leave the TS schools go is fascinating. If you look at the pathways data there is no rhyme or reason. There is no single school where 10+ kids go. And lots of schools <10 where kids go. The story seems to be "anywhere but here".

a lot of them go back to PG county where they live.

Lots can be said about TR. This isn't one of their issues.

that’s not what I heard … most Hill charters in NE have MANY MD plates at drop-off because they are on the commuting route from PG …

But what percent of those involve co-parents where one lives in the district or are kids who live at least part time with a grandparent (where the grandparent lives in MD but custodial parent is in DC, or where the grandparent lives in DC and has custody of the child a significant amount of time). He really at least one of these things are true and none of these cases would be considered residency fraud because the child is a resident of DC at least some of the time.

There’s a lot of residency fraud.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data on where kids who leave the TS schools go is fascinating. If you look at the pathways data there is no rhyme or reason. There is no single school where 10+ kids go. And lots of schools <10 where kids go. The story seems to be "anywhere but here".

a lot of them go back to PG county where they live.

Lots can be said about TR. This isn't one of their issues.

that’s not what I heard … most Hill charters in NE have MANY MD plates at drop-off because they are on the commuting route from PG …

But what percent of those involve co-parents where one lives in the district or are kids who live at least part time with a grandparent (where the grandparent lives in MD but custodial parent is in DC, or where the grandparent lives in DC and has custody of the child a significant amount of time). He really at least one of these things are true and none of these cases would be considered residency fraud because the child is a resident of DC at least some of the time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data on where kids who leave the TS schools go is fascinating. If you look at the pathways data there is no rhyme or reason. There is no single school where 10+ kids go. And lots of schools <10 where kids go. The story seems to be "anywhere but here".

a lot of them go back to PG county where they live.

Lots can be said about TR. This isn't one of their issues.

that’s not what I heard … most Hill charters in NE have MANY MD plates at drop-off because they are on the commuting route from PG …

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data on where kids who leave the TS schools go is fascinating. If you look at the pathways data there is no rhyme or reason. There is no single school where 10+ kids go. And lots of schools <10 where kids go. The story seems to be "anywhere but here".

a lot of them go back to PG county where they live.

Lots can be said about TR. This isn't one of their issues.

Sad that it's four years until their next charter review.

Anonymous wrote:The data on where kids who leave the TS schools go is fascinating. If you look at the pathways data there is no rhyme or reason. There is no single school where 10+ kids go. And lots of schools <10 where kids go. The story seems to be "anywhere but here".

a lot of them go back to PG county where they live.

The data on where kids who leave the TS schools go is fascinating. If you look at the pathways data there is no rhyme or reason. There is no single school where 10+ kids go. And lots of schools <10 where kids go. The story seems to be "anywhere but here".

I’m very hopeful about the future of JoW in terms of the upcoming renovations, some great teachers and families/kids with amazing potential with a strong feeder into SH middle school.

Anonymous wrote:TR's MS also always had an issue: it had to outperform SH to survive; if your student body is 30% families who are IB for MS, they actually have an OK middle school fall back, so they need a *good* middle school... not an OK (or worse) fallback.

Very good point. If it were just the Young campus and not 4th, I can imagine a school that doesn't have as many kids IB for SH and gets by on kids IB for less appealing schools like Browne, Wheatley, McKinley Middle, Kelly Miller. But when the 4th St campus is so weighted towards SH kids, and the Young campus has those and Eliot-Hine IB families, that really sets a performance floor that TR must exceed.

^^ Sorry, should say "who are IB for SH"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A few thoughts from an ITDS parent:

1) It's no longer easy to get into Cooper and the new Cooper location is much farther from Two Rivers. So the impact of that will be mitigated. But I do think it's the case that the opening of Cooper affected Two Rivers at a time when it was already really struggling. Without the impact of Cooper it might have pulled out of a bad spiral. Who knows.

2) Seems like there's just massive attrition from elementary to middle school at Two Rivers. At ITDS there's a lot-- each year about 25-30% of the 5th grade class is new, and maybe 10-15% of the 6tth grade class. Middle school academics are just okay at ITDS, and behavior is also just okay. It's not like there aren't problems, it's just that ITDS families tend to stay if they don't get into Latin because they can't figure out anything that's better.

3) Looking at the Empower K12 dashboard, seems like TR test scores dropped significantly, especially at Young. Whether that's the result of attrition among higher-scoring kids or the result of worsening teaching, I do not know.

4) It's important to acknowledge highlights as well as lows, so I will say last year Two Rivers sent 15 kids to McKinley Tech and 10 to Banneker, as well as at least 1 each to Walls and Ellington. Well done!

This is nice but ignores the fact that TR actually has a ton of attrition from early to late elementary. It's not that families peel off at 5th or 6th. It's that they peel off starting in 2nd grade when they realize their kids math and ELA instruction is bad. Once you get through ECE and start focusing more on academics it starts to become more and more apparent that TR has few if any academic strengths. If you aren't willing to supplement in all areas then you have to accept below grade level achievement. Even if your kid is bright and catches on quickly -- a bright kid still can't learn if they aren't even getting the material they need in class.

So to answer your question: the declining test scores are the result of attrition among higher scoring kids. But it's important to understand that those kids are leaving because their families are tired of having to supplement so much to keep them learning. And I actually don't fault the teachers at TR -- I think they are doing the best they can but the curriculum sucks and administration has been middling to bad over the last 5 years. There is a lot of attrition in the teaching staff.

TR needs a new curriculum but I do not believe the organization as that willingness to let go of EL nor any idea how to replace it with something more sound. The writing has been on the wall for years but they keep digging in deeper and maintaining this "ra-ra we're awesome" ethos that covers up a host of issues. That's why people leave -- there's nothing to be gained in staying because if you suggest that anything needs to change you just get sympathetic nods and meaningless reassurance followed by defensiveness and stonewalling if you persist.

Is this STILL the reality at TR ? I felt this way many many years ago when my DS was at TRY for only a year (we left for all the issues mentioned here). I was also shocked at how many parents appeared to value “community “ over an actual decent education.

At least as of last year: yes. At least at TR 4th.

TR's MS also always had an issue: it had to outperform SH to survive; if your student body is 30% families who are IB for MS, they actually have an OK middle school fall back, so they need a *good* middle school... not an OK (or worse) fallback.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A few thoughts from an ITDS parent:

1) It's no longer easy to get into Cooper and the new Cooper location is much farther from Two Rivers. So the impact of that will be mitigated. But I do think it's the case that the opening of Cooper affected Two Rivers at a time when it was already really struggling. Without the impact of Cooper it might have pulled out of a bad spiral. Who knows.

2) Seems like there's just massive attrition from elementary to middle school at Two Rivers. At ITDS there's a lot-- each year about 25-30% of the 5th grade class is new, and maybe 10-15% of the 6tth grade class. Middle school academics are just okay at ITDS, and behavior is also just okay. It's not like there aren't problems, it's just that ITDS families tend to stay if they don't get into Latin because they can't figure out anything that's better.

3) Looking at the Empower K12 dashboard, seems like TR test scores dropped significantly, especially at Young. Whether that's the result of attrition among higher-scoring kids or the result of worsening teaching, I do not know.

4) It's important to acknowledge highlights as well as lows, so I will say last year Two Rivers sent 15 kids to McKinley Tech and 10 to Banneker, as well as at least 1 each to Walls and Ellington. Well done!

This is nice but ignores the fact that TR actually has a ton of attrition from early to late elementary. It's not that families peel off at 5th or 6th. It's that they peel off starting in 2nd grade when they realize their kids math and ELA instruction is bad. Once you get through ECE and start focusing more on academics it starts to become more and more apparent that TR has few if any academic strengths. If you aren't willing to supplement in all areas then you have to accept below grade level achievement. Even if your kid is bright and catches on quickly -- a bright kid still can't learn if they aren't even getting the material they need in class.

So to answer your question: the declining test scores are the result of attrition among higher scoring kids. But it's important to understand that those kids are leaving because their families are tired of having to supplement so much to keep them learning. And I actually don't fault the teachers at TR -- I think they are doing the best they can but the curriculum sucks and administration has been middling to bad over the last 5 years. There is a lot of attrition in the teaching staff.

TR needs a new curriculum but I do not believe the organization as that willingness to let go of EL nor any idea how to replace it with something more sound. The writing has been on the wall for years but they keep digging in deeper and maintaining this "ra-ra we're awesome" ethos that covers up a host of issues. That's why people leave -- there's nothing to be gained in staying because if you suggest that anything needs to change you just get sympathetic nods and meaningless reassurance followed by defensiveness and stonewalling if you persist.

Well, my question is why did test scores decline relative to last year. Because the attrition is a longstanding trend at TR. Was there an unusually large amount of attrition?

The attrition is moving younger. People used to leave in 4th or 5th. Now they leave in 2nd and 3rd. This has a compounding effect because where you used to have more kids sticking around long enough to take PARCC/CAPE in 3rd and even 4th, now you don't and the kids testing are often either new to the school (and coming from schools with even weaker academics) or they are kids of parents who don't care so much about academic achievement and this don't leave even when their kid is a full grade or more behind in math and struggling with reading fluency.

Thank you for this answer, it is enlightening.

Is there any particular place TR families tend to go, or is it just a matter of lottery luck and preferences?

I mean in public school in DC it's always a matter of lottery (or boundary) luck and preferences. TR has lost a decent number of kids to LT over the last 5 years because families that may have chosen TR when it's rep was better and didn't realize how strong LT had gotten have corrected that choice -- they were either already IB for LT or were able to snag a lottery spot for K-5 (though this is getting harder). A lot of LT boundary families used to prefer TR to LT and that has fully flipped at this point -- I don't know anyone who would take a TR PK spot over one at LT at this point.

Latin (both campuses) and BASIS continue to grab kids. If you are still at TR by 4th most people will lottery for both. This is true almost anywhere on the east side though unless you are in a DCI feeder.

ITDS is an obvious fit for people fleeing TR because it will appeal for the same reasons TR appealed but with better academics. Though in sheer numbers it's not that many kids because ITDS is just really small.

I think the wildcard is JOW. Even with all the issues at TR in the last few years you still see the flow of students moving from JOW to TR and not vice versa. However JOW is retaining more IB students than it used to (small gains but real ones) and TR is attracting fewer kids IB for JOW. So while the trend still favors TR over JOW it's not as strong as it once was (there was a time when people basically viewed TR as the IB for the JOW catchment because so many more IB families went there over JOW). It will be interesting to see how JOW's modernization impact this. In the short term TR may actually benefit because I can't imagine a ton of IB families with rising PK3 kids are eager to send their kids to a swing space a mile or two away. But once the new campus opens I think a lot of IB families will give it a look and I think you'll see many more choosing it for ECE. If the school can hang on to a decent percent of these kids into 1st and 2nd I think TR 4th will be screwed. Especially because if JOW starts retaining more IB kids that will also make it much more appealing to families IB for Wheatley and miner.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A few thoughts from an ITDS parent:

1) It's no longer easy to get into Cooper and the new Cooper location is much farther from Two Rivers. So the impact of that will be mitigated. But I do think it's the case that the opening of Cooper affected Two Rivers at a time when it was already really struggling. Without the impact of Cooper it might have pulled out of a bad spiral. Who knows.

2) Seems like there's just massive attrition from elementary to middle school at Two Rivers. At ITDS there's a lot-- each year about 25-30% of the 5th grade class is new, and maybe 10-15% of the 6tth grade class. Middle school academics are just okay at ITDS, and behavior is also just okay. It's not like there aren't problems, it's just that ITDS families tend to stay if they don't get into Latin because they can't figure out anything that's better.

3) Looking at the Empower K12 dashboard, seems like TR test scores dropped significantly, especially at Young. Whether that's the result of attrition among higher-scoring kids or the result of worsening teaching, I do not know.

4) It's important to acknowledge highlights as well as lows, so I will say last year Two Rivers sent 15 kids to McKinley Tech and 10 to Banneker, as well as at least 1 each to Walls and Ellington. Well done!

This is nice but ignores the fact that TR actually has a ton of attrition from early to late elementary. It's not that families peel off at 5th or 6th. It's that they peel off starting in 2nd grade when they realize their kids math and ELA instruction is bad. Once you get through ECE and start focusing more on academics it starts to become more and more apparent that TR has few if any academic strengths. If you aren't willing to supplement in all areas then you have to accept below grade level achievement. Even if your kid is bright and catches on quickly -- a bright kid still can't learn if they aren't even getting the material they need in class.

So to answer your question: the declining test scores are the result of attrition among higher scoring kids. But it's important to understand that those kids are leaving because their families are tired of having to supplement so much to keep them learning. And I actually don't fault the teachers at TR -- I think they are doing the best they can but the curriculum sucks and administration has been middling to bad over the last 5 years. There is a lot of attrition in the teaching staff.

TR needs a new curriculum but I do not believe the organization as that willingness to let go of EL nor any idea how to replace it with something more sound. The writing has been on the wall for years but they keep digging in deeper and maintaining this "ra-ra we're awesome" ethos that covers up a host of issues. That's why people leave -- there's nothing to be gained in staying because if you suggest that anything needs to change you just get sympathetic nods and meaningless reassurance followed by defensiveness and stonewalling if you persist.

Is this STILL the reality at TR ? I felt this way many many years ago when my DS was at TRY for only a year (we left for all the issues mentioned here). I was also shocked at how many parents appeared to value “community “ over an actual decent education.