Essays can be written/edited by consultants and ECs outside the school might not be available for everyone then GPA and SAT and teacher's recommendation should be given more weight.

Anonymous wrote:Lack of foundational skills does not equal inability to learn. Over half of American kids go to public schools with varying degrees of competence in teaching.

Kids who have a great capacity to learn are sometimes limited in who teaches them leading to graduation in high school without the necessary foundational skills.

Harvard-type students will learn quickly regardless of foundational skills and good on Harvard for recognizing that students with high potential may not all come out equal after high school.

The went test optional because there were too many Asian applicants with great scores. Now the have kids with grades that don't mean anything unsuited for the school, but at least they've prevented the Asians from overrunning the schools. It's no different than when the modern admissions system was created to cap the number Jews at Harvard and Yale

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Half of US high schools don’t offer calculus. I imagine there may be very bright students at Harvard and elsewhere who have had weak learning environments.

From the article:

The Harvard Math Department will pilot a new introductory course aimed at rectifying a lack of foundational algebra skills among students, according to Harvard’s Director of Introductory Math Brendan A. Kelly.

What does this say about Harvard admission? If they are admitting the best and brightest, why are they facing this issue?

You seem to be conflating preparedness with intelligence. Lots and lots of highly intelligent people have not had sufficient training and preparation to hone and apply their ability into skill. If Harvard, or any other university, sees it as part of its mission to educate that segment of the population, they’ll get no argument from me. You may resent that the algorithm you assumed applied to elite college admissions doesn’t in fact, but it has never been the practice of these universities to only take the most prepared and accomplished people.

Lack of foundational skills does not equal inability to learn. Over half of American kids go to public schools with varying degrees of competence in teaching.

Kids who have a great capacity to learn are sometimes limited in who teaches them leading to graduation in high school without the necessary foundational skills.

Harvard-type students will learn quickly regardless of foundational skills and good on Harvard for recognizing that students with high potential may not all come out equal after high school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Half of US high schools don’t offer calculus. I imagine there may be very bright students at Harvard and elsewhere who have had weak learning environments.

From the article:

The Harvard Math Department will pilot a new introductory course aimed at rectifying a lack of foundational algebra skills among students, according to Harvard’s Director of Introductory Math Brendan A. Kelly.

Yes - and I’m guessing some of those high schools not offering calculus may not have done a bang up job on the earlier classes. Do you know nothing about education in the US?

If it is decided that kids who can’t do basic algebra because they went to a crappy HS deserve to attend Harvard, that’s Harvard’s decision. But all those arguments about the best and the brightest and attending Harvard because of the excellence of the student cohort go by the wayside.

Anonymous wrote:Harvard is a school. It's goal is to provide an education, not judgenwhatever contest you think it should be running. The lower the ability of incoming students, the more we can see if the school is adding any value.

You get it. The competitive parents do not.

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Anonymous wrote:Math M isn't a new course, and isn't remedial. It's functions and introductory calculus, which are college level calculus. This is a section of the same course that meets 5 days instead of 3 so that kids can get more support while taking this college level class.

"“What we thought was the best thing to do — instead of adding another course before MA — was to add more time and support into MA for students who would need it.”"

Previous commenters might be great at math but lack reading skills - or the willingness to actually read the article before blathering.

dp.. One would expect Harvard caliber students to not need more "time and support" for " functions and introductory calculus". A lot of high performing students take this type of class in HS. If Harvard had not been TO, they could've weeded out people with weak math scores.

Harvard has majors in Literature, Art, and Latin.

Sure, but Harvard used to only let in kids who where near perfect at everything (or really rich) and then those kids who were also great at math and science could major in Latin

Do you think, in the 1600s-1900s, that all those students were taking calculus? What about APs? Hmmm.

https://www.quora.com/Calculus-was-invented-after-Harvard-was-established-What-did-Harvard-teach-originally-in-place-of-calculus-in-its-early-years#:~:text=Harvard%20didn't%20teach%20calculus,thesis%20of%201796%20mentioned%20fluxions.

There are many ways to define success.

Taking a 5 day a week calculus class instead of a 3 day a week calculus class speaks mainly to formal math prep issues in high school as others have stated. Bright people can rise above subpar schooling if given a chance.

Anonymous wrote:Harvard is a school. It's goal is to provide an education, not judgenwhatever contest you think it should be running. The lower the ability of incoming students, the more we can see if the school is adding any value.

Really? Then why not do away with HS GPA, too? Why not let in tons of low caliber students and lift them up?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting that when MIT encountered this issue, they dumped test optional admissions. Harvard is doubling down.

It’s clearly Harvard’s call to focus on equity more than academic excellence, but let’s not pretend it isn’t a choice.

+1 But then Harvard is still holding onto the antiquated system of legacies. IMO, they are more like a liberal arts college.

LLAC.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Math M isn't a new course, and isn't remedial. It's functions and introductory calculus, which are college level calculus. This is a section of the same course that meets 5 days instead of 3 so that kids can get more support while taking this college level class.

"“What we thought was the best thing to do — instead of adding another course before MA — was to add more time and support into MA for students who would need it.”"

Previous commenters might be great at math but lack reading skills - or the willingness to actually read the article before blathering.

dp.. One would expect Harvard caliber students to not need more "time and support" for " functions and introductory calculus". A lot of high performing students take this type of class in HS. If Harvard had not been TO, they could've weeded out people with weak math scores.

Harvard has majors in Literature, Art, and Latin.

then why make them take remedial Calculus?

Who's "making" them?

Harvard

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting that when MIT encountered this issue, they dumped test optional admissions. Harvard is doubling down.

It’s clearly Harvard’s call to focus on equity more than academic excellence, but let’s not pretend it isn’t a choice.

+1 But then Harvard is still holding onto the antiquated system of legacies. IMO, they are more like a liberal arts college.

Anonymous wrote:Some people are not into math. Who cares if they offer remedial math?! I never use algebra or calculus in my job.

You must be a lawyer.

then why make them take remedial Calculus? I don't need to take a host of humanities classes to do my job? Why on earth did I have to read those pointless American classics?

Heck, why not offer remedial classes in all subjects. That will be a good look for Harvard.

It’s interesting that when MIT encountered this issue, they dumped test optional admissions. Harvard is doubling down.

It’s clearly Harvard’s call to focus on equity more than academic excellence, but let’s not pretend it isn’t a choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Math M isn't a new course, and isn't remedial. It's functions and introductory calculus, which are college level calculus. This is a section of the same course that meets 5 days instead of 3 so that kids can get more support while taking this college level class.

"“What we thought was the best thing to do — instead of adding another course before MA — was to add more time and support into MA for students who would need it.”"

Previous commenters might be great at math but lack reading skills - or the willingness to actually read the article before blathering.

dp.. One would expect Harvard caliber students to not need more "time and support" for " functions and introductory calculus". A lot of high performing students take this type of class in HS. If Harvard had not been TO, they could've weeded out people with weak math scores.

Harvard has majors in Literature, Art, and Latin.

then why make them take remedial Calculus?

Who's "making" them?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. I assume this is directed at first gen students, but still seems pretty nuts.

why would you assume that?

Many Asian American students are first gen, and they score very high in math, the highest of all groups.

Another inconvenient truth!