Anonymous
09/04/2024 10:19
Subject: Why is there such a difference in advice in this forum vs. tweens/teens?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's pretty clear that most parents posting here are well away of what it takes to get into even a T100 university these days: high unweighted GPA, great standardized test scores, leadership EC's, etc. But the prevailing feeling in the other forum seems to be, "Let your kids have fun and be themselves, and they'll land where they land." Is this just a self-selecting group of posters, or is something else going on?
This is patently false as we happily found out last cycle. You don't need all of those factors.. maybe you do at T30ish and a small subset of schools below that. My kid did whatever he wanted, goofed off in high school, mediocre GPA (3.25/3.75) but had a high test score with minimal prep (did KA sample tests and scored above 1500), one non-academic EC, no sports and very minimal service hours. Got into several schools in the T40-75 range, Engineering, CS or Business programs, and a T30 LAC. Some of the private schools gave great merit too! I'm sure results would have been the same if the GPA was higher and test scores lower but the rest of the profile was the same. Maybe DC would have gotten into higher ranked schools if the target had been an easier major but who knows.. Not female, not URM, before someone asks.
So yeah.. let them have fun too!
can you tell us which ones? Weird that he would apply for both business and engineering, so I think you're lying.
Anonymous
09/04/2024 09:47
Subject: Why is there such a difference in advice in this forum vs. tweens/teens?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Where did you get Top 100? What it takes to get into Top 100 is a far cry different than what it takes to get to Top 20.
I was being generous based on the fact the tween/teen forum seems to be ok with no EC's and B averages.
Do Top 100s actually take kids with no ECs and B averages? The top half of VA public universities (UVA, VA Tech, WM, and even JMU now) pretty much require top grades and ECs.
I know a kid who got into a top 50 school this year with excellent grades/rigor/test scores and essentially no ECs.
Most top 50s do not need ECs unless one is borderline for grades and rigor.
Anonymous
09/04/2024 09:11
Subject: Re:Why is there such a difference in advice in this forum vs. tweens/teens?
JMU requires top grades because of grade inflation in FCPS. It is really hard to get Bs if you are putting in a bit of effort.
Not really. My DC who went to JMU had a fair number of B/B+ grades on his transcript, took gen ed English for 3 years, only took 4 "real" APs (along with AP music theory and CSP), and applied with a 3.95 weighted GPA and 34 ACT (took once, did no prep). About 25% of his class graduated with a weighted GPA above 4.0 but it's not true that everyone has all As.
I really don't think he was below average for a JMU student. Heck, UMD offered him a $50k OOS scholarship with these stats.
We didn't stress about college admissions because our kids correctly identified targets and safeties and only applied to those schools.
Anonymous
09/04/2024 07:16
Subject: Why is there such a difference in advice in this forum vs. tweens/teens?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This board is a stress echo chamber because an unusually high percentage of posters here are chasing spots (for their kids) at the same 50 or so schools. The reality is, though, that the vast majority of schools accept the vast majority of applicants--something that's true even of many so-called T100 schools, e.g., Rutgers (#40, 66% acceptance rate per current USNWR), Virginia Tech (#47, 57%), UMN (#53, 75%), Michigan State (#60, 88%), etc.
Did you fail math? 57% is not a "vast majority."
Lol Hokies are the best
Anonymous
09/03/2024 22:35
Subject: Why is there such a difference in advice in this forum vs. tweens/teens?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's pretty clear that most parents posting here are well away of what it takes to get into even a T100 university these days: high unweighted GPA, great standardized test scores, leadership EC's, etc. But the prevailing feeling in the other forum seems to be, "Let your kids have fun and be themselves, and they'll land where they land." Is this just a self-selecting group of posters, or is something else going on?
It's the beauty of innocence. Of course, tweens and their parents shouldn't be overly concerned about college during those years.
Come 9th grade, however, it's reality check time. No one is traipsing into UVA, much less Vanderbilt or Penn. It's time for a sit down and to get informed. This includes finances. And a hard look at what it actually takes to get into a top 50 or so school - if that's where you want to go. But it's also important to stress that there are 5000 colleges in America and it's all going to work out.
But realism is the order of the day. I do find the college forum here pretty useful. Sure, there are neurotics. And the deluded. And the fools. And it takes a bit until you're able to quickly discern the wise from the foolish. But I find it better overall than reddit or cc. I learned a lot that was helpful to my kids and how we approached college.
But yeah, it's pretty basic if you are shooting for a top school - the most rigorous classes, particularly math; no more than a B or two; study for the PSAT/SAT/ACT - 34 and 1500 are your golden scores; do something interesting and be really good at it; write a great essay that quietly says something cool about you; be kind; by Junior year, selection the 2/3 teachers that will be writing your recommendations and be awesome to them; be a leader in something; demonstrate some community service; and try to be somewhat athletic, both for your own good and for your friends. And get enough sleep.
That's pretty much it in a nutshell.
That is the recipe for sure. My issue with dcum is the pressure from parents to do all the above: that should come almost entirely from the kids. Furthermore many cannot get 34/1500 (the bar for T20 unhooked) without huge investment of $ and months and months of study and retakes. Why on earth put your kid through that? The only kids who should be encouraged in the rat race, and only if it is their goal not the parents, are the ones that have always been 98-99th percentile students from early on(even public schools provide this data to parents as early as 3rd g).
Parents need to understand and accept the kids they have and guide them to schools that make sense for them.
Anonymous
09/03/2024 22:27
Subject: Why is there such a difference in advice in this forum vs. tweens/teens?
Anonymous wrote:I post in this forum.
I think that in this forum, there are lots of posts by people who want their kid to go to Ivies, or Stanford, etc . . . If that's your goal, then in order to meet that goal, your kid will need a lot of EC's, and super high grades, and tons of rigor. But that doesn't mean that it's a good goal. Figuring yourself out, having a great high school experience, getting into the college that's a match for you, might be better goals.
Also, I think sometimes people catastrophize. There was a post. There was a post a while ago where someone said "my freshman isn't planning to do any activities" and people replied that he'd never get into a good college, and his future would be ruined.
In reality the most likely outcome is that the freshman will change his mind. Because that's what freshmen do. So, making college predictions in August before freshman year is pointless. Even if kid doesn't change his mind there are plenty of great potential outcomes. But he'll probably change his mind. And colleges are not going to reject him because he didn't decide to join clubs until November.
Excellent post! Both of my ivy kids (‘22,’24) joined clubs freshman year that they dropped within a year or two and were never put on the app because they had become meaningless once they were filling out the common app senior year: many more opportunities had occurred, new clubs joined and mobility to leadership, as well as outside of school pursuits. The most important job of a freshman is get the highest grades they can in the most challenging classes that suit them whatever level that is.
Anonymous
09/03/2024 22:20
Subject: Why is there such a difference in advice in this forum vs. tweens/teens?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Where did you get Top 100? What it takes to get into Top 100 is a far cry different than what it takes to get to Top 20.
I was being generous based on the fact the tween/teen forum seems to be ok with no EC's and B averages.
Do Top 100s actually take kids with no ECs and B averages? The top half of VA public universities (UVA, VA Tech, WM, and even JMU now) pretty much require top grades and ECs.
JMU requires top grades because of grade inflation in FCPS. It is really hard to get Bs if you are putting in a bit of effort.
I keep reading this on this forum but I don’t see grade inflation to that extent. My kid is in honors classes (9th grade), was in AAP. Science and math especially-the exams are not just easy multiple choices. You need to know material. You miss couple of questions—that can put at a B. Is it as hard as it was back on our day? Prob not. But the idea that you can hand in anything and get an A is BS.
There are many schools where the average weighted GPA is 4.1-4.3. The average unweighted is 3.9. They have tests but the test average is less than 1/3 of the semester grade. Some schools let tests be retaken if under an 88. The other 2/3 grade is completion homework grades and participation. Basically a guaranteed 95-100 for 2/3 of the grade. The inflation is increasing more every year. The colleges know this: dean J of UVA has done vlogs where they review how transcripts are evaluated and she has noted many schools in VA have 75%of the graduating class with over a 4.0weighted. What is not said is the valedictorians often have above a 5 (5.5 is an A+ in some of these schools). Other schools, parochial or private, have the median weighted as 3.8 and unweighted 3.7, with the top student getting 4.4 weighted. You cannot compare gpas between schools. The colleges compare within a school when they need to. They have their own view of scoir that lets them track the gpas and scores from different high schools even if the high school does not provide a profile: in other words they can infer the approximate rank
Anonymous
09/03/2024 22:09
Subject: Why is there such a difference in advice in this forum vs. tweens/teens?
Anonymous wrote:Different kids. If you have a kid with effortless high test scores, straight As, numerous activities you come here. If you have a kid who’s struggling with life in middle school or high school, you go there. (Some of the kids will switch places over time, I’m sure.)
This! But also, if your kid has all As in average and some honors/AP classes with a 4.2W , and your kid “doesn’t test well” but you know they are a genius destined for T25 you also come here, completely clueless that your kid is average, because the insane grade inflation has eliminated your ability to accurately assess your child. /s
Anonymous
09/03/2024 21:43
Subject: Why is there such a difference in advice in this forum vs. tweens/teens?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Where did you get Top 100? What it takes to get into Top 100 is a far cry different than what it takes to get to Top 20.
I was being generous based on the fact the tween/teen forum seems to be ok with no EC's and B averages.
Do Top 100s actually take kids with no ECs and B averages? The top half of VA public universities (UVA, VA Tech, WM, and even JMU now) pretty much require top grades and ECs.
I know a kid who got into a top 50 school this year with excellent grades/rigor/test scores and essentially no ECs.
Mine got into several T40-60 schools with mediocre grades, good rigor, excellent SAT and pretty much one dedicated, non-academic EC.
IMHO.. What's important to colleges:
Level 1 - Grades, Rigor, Test Scores - The three legs of academic ability. You need all three to be top notch for the top/selective schools and at least two out of three to be top notch to get into lower-tier schools (T40-T60)
level 2 - ECs
Level 3 - Essays
The lower the schools rankings, the less likely they are to really look beyond Tier 1. ECs and essays begin to matter far less once you cross the T40 mark. They do pretend to care and ask for them but if you read feedback in discussion forums and listen to what APs say at admission events, it's clear that they are not that critical. Several good schools in this range don't care about ECs or essays (Penn State, Ohio State, Rutgers, etc.). Tier 1 is kinda tricky with several schools still TO on paper and some folks vehemently argue that TO works just fine. I personally don't think so.
Of course there are 'pockets of resistance' within some schools or in certain geographies where you find high selectivity for certain programs within a school (e.g. Virginia Tech Engineering or Business) or a school overall U-SC or BU.
Anonymous
09/03/2024 21:35
Subject: Why is there such a difference in advice in this forum vs. tweens/teens?
Anonymous wrote:It's pretty clear that most parents posting here are well away of what it takes to get into even a T100 university these days: high unweighted GPA, great standardized test scores, leadership EC's, etc. But the prevailing feeling in the other forum seems to be, "Let your kids have fun and be themselves, and they'll land where they land." Is this just a self-selecting group of posters, or is something else going on?
It's the beauty of innocence. Of course, tweens and their parents shouldn't be overly concerned about college during those years.
Come 9th grade, however, it's reality check time. No one is traipsing into UVA, much less Vanderbilt or Penn. It's time for a sit down and to get informed. This includes finances. And a hard look at what it actually takes to get into a top 50 or so school - if that's where you want to go. But it's also important to stress that there are 5000 colleges in America and it's all going to work out.
But realism is the order of the day. I do find the college forum here pretty useful. Sure, there are neurotics. And the deluded. And the fools. And it takes a bit until you're able to quickly discern the wise from the foolish. But I find it better overall than reddit or cc. I learned a lot that was helpful to my kids and how we approached college.
But yeah, it's pretty basic if you are shooting for a top school - the most rigorous classes, particularly math; no more than a B or two; study for the PSAT/SAT/ACT - 34 and 1500 are your golden scores; do something interesting and be really good at it; write a great essay that quietly says something cool about you; be kind; by Junior year, selection the 2/3 teachers that will be writing your recommendations and be awesome to them; be a leader in something; demonstrate some community service; and try to be somewhat athletic, both for your own good and for your friends. And get enough sleep.
That's pretty much it in a nutshell.
Anonymous
09/03/2024 21:15
Subject: Why is there such a difference in advice in this forum vs. tweens/teens?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Where did you get Top 100? What it takes to get into Top 100 is a far cry different than what it takes to get to Top 20.
I was being generous based on the fact the tween/teen forum seems to be ok with no EC's and B averages.
Do Top 100s actually take kids with no ECs and B averages? The top half of VA public universities (UVA, VA Tech, WM, and even JMU now) pretty much require top grades and ECs.
I know a kid who got into a top 50 school this year with excellent grades/rigor/test scores and essentially no ECs.
Anonymous
09/03/2024 21:11
Subject: Why is there such a difference in advice in this forum vs. tweens/teens?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Where did you get Top 100? What it takes to get into Top 100 is a far cry different than what it takes to get to Top 20.
I was being generous based on the fact the tween/teen forum seems to be ok with no EC's and B averages.
Do Top 100s actually take kids with no ECs and B averages? The top half of VA public universities (UVA, VA Tech, WM, and even JMU now) pretty much require top grades and ECs.
JMU requires top grades because of grade inflation in FCPS. It is really hard to get Bs if you are putting in a bit of effort.
I keep reading this on this forum but I don’t see grade inflation to that extent. My kid is in honors classes (9th grade), was in AAP. Science and math especially-the exams are not just easy multiple choices. You need to know material. You miss couple of questions—that can put at a B. Is it as hard as it was back on our day? Prob not. But the idea that you can hand in anything and get an A is BS.