Anonymous
Post 08/25/2024 10:24     Subject: Re:Anyone in a wealthy area that isn’t competitive with colleges?
This change to a mostly nerdy and awkward student body shouldn't be surprising. That is what college admissions offices have been asking for - great grades in rigorous classes alongside unique [nerdy] interests. When test optional came around, this may have accelerated the trend, as that catapulted the transcript as even more important than it already was. It takes an awful lot of nerdiness to have the kind of transcript and application. Gone are the days when a 3.75 with four APs was enough. Now, 3.95 with 8 to 10 APs.

Many of these nerdy awkward kids come from wealth, so that helps.

Want a more social vibe, look at the Big 10 schools (except for Northwestern, which will have its share of wealthy nerdy awkward kids like mine), and schools in the South and in Texas.
Anonymous
Post 08/25/2024 10:24     Subject: Anyone in a wealthy area that isn’t competitive with colleges?
Not sure about this. Most rich people are sending their kids to the top universities if they have that option. The reason? The top universities open more doors, e.g. wall street, MBB, tech or other elite companies if the kids are interested. You can always find outliers.
Anonymous
Post 08/25/2024 10:21     Subject: Anyone in a wealthy area that isn’t competitive with colleges?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I went to a top 5 school in the 90s. There was a mix of kids: nerds, quirky types, rich kids, etc. Now it’s not a mixture anymore. All strivers with no social lives and no goals other than HYPSM. I wouldn’t encourage my kids to go for it.


Where would you encourage?

In my research (and talking to grads from our private HS), social, smart savvy kids seem to like:

Vanderbilt
Brown
Dartmouth
Stanford
Cornell (big Greek life/fratty scene)
UChicago
USC
Middlebury
Colgate
Syracuse
U-Miami
Tulane
SMU

And for public flagships:
Michigan
UCLA
UVA
Wisconsin



This is a good list. I’d add Wake Forest, maybe Uc-Boulder for public flagships?
Anonymous
Post 08/25/2024 10:19     Subject: Anyone in a wealthy area that isn’t competitive with colleges?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I went to a top 5 school in the 90s. There was a mix of kids: nerds, quirky types, rich kids, etc. Now it’s not a mixture anymore. All strivers with no social lives and no goals other than HYPSM. I wouldn’t encourage my kids to go for it.


Where would you encourage?

In my research (and talking to grads from our private HS), social, smart savvy kids seem to like:

Vanderbilt
Brown
Dartmouth
Stanford
Cornell (big Greek life/fratty scene)
UChicago
USC
Middlebury
Colgate
Syracuse
U-Miami
Tulane
SMU

And for public flagships:
Michigan
UCLA
UVA
Wisconsin



I’ve heard from alums that Stanford has changed a lot. It used to draw interesting, semi-laid back geniuses and athletes, now it’s mostly strivers. Lots of kids that aspire to be in Forbes under 30. Not that different from Harvard nowadays.


Folks…what is comical about these posts is what is unsaid. Stanford had a 40% acceptance rate in the 1990s, as did just about all these schools (Chicago was over 50%).

Let’s just be honest…they used to take weaker students in general.

Guess what…geniuses are still going to these top schools, whether laid back or not. Obviously, Stanford takes athletes…more than say 30 years ago because there are more sports…so nothing has changed there.

Anonymous
Post 08/25/2024 10:19     Subject: Anyone in a wealthy area that isn’t competitive with colleges?
Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.


You nailed it. A place like Northwestern used to have students who were very different from the academic grinders & nerds at U of Chicago. Now they aren’t much different.
Anonymous
Post 08/25/2024 10:18     Subject: Anyone in a wealthy area that isn’t competitive with colleges?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I went to a top 5 school in the 90s. There was a mix of kids: nerds, quirky types, rich kids, etc. Now it’s not a mixture anymore. All strivers with no social lives and no goals other than HYPSM. I wouldn’t encourage my kids to go for it.


Where would you encourage?

In my research (and talking to grads from our private HS), social, smart savvy kids seem to like:

Vanderbilt
Brown
Dartmouth
Stanford
Cornell (big Greek life/fratty scene)
UChicago
USC
Middlebury
Colgate
Syracuse
U-Miami
Tulane
SMU

And for public flagships:
Michigan
UCLA
UVA
Wisconsin



I’ve heard from alums that Stanford has changed a lot. It used to draw interesting, semi-laid back geniuses and athletes, now it’s mostly strivers. Lots of kids that aspire to be in Forbes under 30. Not that different from Harvard nowadays.

Sour grapes? The kids at HYPSM are incredible. And believe it or not, there are a lot of interesting, semi-laid back geniuses and athletes still at these top colleges ... just not yours.
Anonymous
Post 08/25/2024 10:17     Subject: Re:Anyone in a wealthy area that isn’t competitive with colleges?
These are generalizations. Agree with the PP who pointed out some top schools, including Dartmouth and Vanderbilt, have a really social, less nerdy vibe (not saying that’s better or worse, just something to consider with regards to fit for your child). I have one kid who went that route, and another who wanted a more intellectual environment. In the end, you only have so much control. All of that said, they ended up at very similar schools, found the right crowd at each for themselves, and were happy. One partied more, one studied more, but they found like-minded classmates to hang out with.
Anonymous
Post 08/25/2024 10:14     Subject: Anyone in a wealthy area that isn’t competitive with colleges?
Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.



This isn’t consistent with where local private schools are sending their students.
Anonymous
Post 08/25/2024 10:13     Subject: Anyone in a wealthy area that isn’t competitive with colleges?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I went to a top 5 school in the 90s. There was a mix of kids: nerds, quirky types, rich kids, etc. Now it’s not a mixture anymore. All strivers with no social lives and no goals other than HYPSM. I wouldn’t encourage my kids to go for it.


Where would you encourage?

In my research (and talking to grads from our private HS), social, smart savvy kids seem to like:

Vanderbilt
Brown
Dartmouth
Stanford
Cornell (big Greek life/fratty scene)
UChicago
USC
Middlebury
Colgate
Syracuse
U-Miami
Tulane
SMU

And for public flagships:
Michigan
UCLA
UVA
Wisconsin



I’ve heard from alums that Stanford has changed a lot. It used to draw interesting, semi-laid back geniuses and athletes, now it’s mostly strivers. Lots of kids that aspire to be in Forbes under 30. Not that different from Harvard nowadays.
Anonymous
Post 08/25/2024 10:09     Subject: Anyone in a wealthy area that isn’t competitive with colleges?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.


this ^ 100% - I advise kids and invariably it is the parents and hard core nerds looking for ivies. The cool, relaxed, athletic, social - and most of all, smart - kids want the Dukes, Vandies, SMU, UCLAs of the world. The tide shifted post covid and is only accelerating. Often a big disconnect between the striving parent (just saw this term on another post - luv it) who is ivy or bust, and what the kid wants. And where the kid doesn’t get a say, it’s almost as if they are robots saying “yes, I want ivy”


Duke and Vandy are top 20 and have the nerdy/awkward kids too…you are trying to make the southern school argument (which is made repeatedly) which perhaps applies to places like UGA.

Also, you threw in UCLA which also doesn’t fit with your point.


Have you seen the incoming kids at Duke this month?
Beyond nerdy. Like awful
Anonymous
Post 08/25/2024 10:08     Subject: Anyone in a wealthy area that isn’t competitive with colleges?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I went to a top 5 school in the 90s. There was a mix of kids: nerds, quirky types, rich kids, etc. Now it’s not a mixture anymore. All strivers with no social lives and no goals other than HYPSM. I wouldn’t encourage my kids to go for it.


Where would you encourage?

In my research (and talking to grads from our private HS), social, smart savvy kids seem to like:

Vanderbilt
Brown
Dartmouth
Stanford
Cornell (big Greek life/fratty scene)
UChicago
USC
Middlebury
Colgate
Syracuse
U-Miami
Tulane
SMU

And for public flagships:
Michigan
UCLA
UVA
Wisconsin



+1
Add Wake

Find TO schools. Less striver nerdy vibe.
Anonymous
Post 08/25/2024 10:07     Subject: Anyone in a wealthy area that isn’t competitive with colleges?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.


my point is the majority of striving kids are ivy obsessed because their parents are - probably at least 75% of ivy applicants are born of parent obsession. Whether that starts at 4 with kindergarten interviews in NYC, or in 3rd grade with tiger mom jamming instrument lessons, the bulk of kids opinions are a direct correlation to and result of mom and dads subtle or direct influence. Cmon what kid would legit want to go to Cornell over Vandy - it’s all parent influence over the years and an unconscious desire to pls mummy and daddy

You do realize that for many—literally tens of thousands of kids—they feel at home and love the nerdy skew of the ivy/ivy plus schools? And for them they do find them socially appealing? You make it sound as though no one really wants to go there and if they do they couldn’t possibly enjoy the place and be social? Social does not mean drinking and nothing else. Some students want a place they can have intellectual conversations and also be young and silly and have fun. If you had a kid where the schools were a fit, you would know it right away on tours. Their whole aura changes. They get there and love it despite all the hard work studying. You are correct the schools have changed—but they are a great fit for a subset of students. Some people are not chasing $ they are chasing fit. Already being top 1% or being a low income kid does not matter: they are chasing the same fit.


sorry effed up post, dont do this much -here it is correctly

my point is the majority of striving kids are ivy obsessed because their parents are - probably at least 75% of ivy applicants are born of parent obsession. Whether that starts at 4 with kindergarten interviews in NYC, or in 3rd grade with tiger mom jamming instrument lessons, the bulk of kids opinions are a direct correlation to and result of mom and dads subtle or direct influence. Cmon what kid would legit want to go to Cornell over Vandy - it’s all parent influence over the years and an unconscious desire to pls mummy and daddy



Your description of kindergarten interviews fits just about everyone enrolling their kids in private NYC schools.

You keep using the term “striver”, but I assure you the billionaire family descended from the original Dutch or the hedge fund billionaire that made their money yesterday or just the law firm partner, are all doing the private school interviews at 4.


We did private school interviews at 4 but never have pushed or expected our kids to end up at Ivies. For us, the goal of private school isn’t the outcome, it’s the experience.
Anonymous
Post 08/25/2024 10:06     Subject: Anyone in a wealthy area that isn’t competitive with colleges?
Anonymous wrote:I went to a top 5 school in the 90s. There was a mix of kids: nerds, quirky types, rich kids, etc. Now it’s not a mixture anymore. All strivers with no social lives and no goals other than HYPSM. I wouldn’t encourage my kids to go for it.


Where would you encourage?

In my research (and talking to grads from our private HS), social, smart savvy kids seem to like:

Vanderbilt
Brown
Dartmouth
Stanford
Cornell (big Greek life/fratty scene)
UChicago
USC
Middlebury
Colgate
Syracuse
U-Miami
Tulane
SMU

And for public flagships:
Michigan
UCLA
UVA
Wisconsin

Anonymous
Post 08/25/2024 10:05     Subject: Anyone in a wealthy area that isn’t competitive with colleges?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.


my point is the majority of striving kids are ivy obsessed because their parents are - probably at least 75% of ivy applicants are born of parent obsession. Whether that starts at 4 with kindergarten interviews in NYC, or in 3rd grade with tiger mom jamming instrument lessons, the bulk of kids opinions are a direct correlation to and result of mom and dads subtle or direct influence. Cmon what kid would legit want to go to Cornell over Vandy - it’s all parent influence over the years and an unconscious desire to pls mummy and daddy

You do realize that for many—literally tens of thousands of kids—they feel at home and love the nerdy skew of the ivy/ivy plus schools? And for them they do find them socially appealing? You make it sound as though no one really wants to go there and if they do they couldn’t possibly enjoy the place and be social? Social does not mean drinking and nothing else. Some students want a place they can have intellectual conversations and also be young and silly and have fun. If you had a kid where the schools were a fit, you would know it right away on tours. Their whole aura changes. They get there and love it despite all the hard work studying. You are correct the schools have changed—but they are a great fit for a subset of students. Some people are not chasing $ they are chasing fit. Already being top 1% or being a low income kid does not matter: they are chasing the same fit.


sorry effed up post, dont do this much -here it is correctly

my point is the majority of striving kids are ivy obsessed because their parents are - probably at least 75% of ivy applicants are born of parent obsession. Whether that starts at 4 with kindergarten interviews in NYC, or in 3rd grade with tiger mom jamming instrument lessons, the bulk of kids opinions are a direct correlation to and result of mom and dads subtle or direct influence. Cmon what kid would legit want to go to Cornell over Vandy - it’s all parent influence over the years and an unconscious desire to pls mummy and daddy



Your description of kindergarten interviews fits just about everyone enrolling their kids in private NYC schools.

You keep using the term “striver”, but I assure you the billionaire family descended from the original Dutch or the hedge fund billionaire that made their money yesterday or just the law firm partner, are all doing the private school interviews at 4.


meh - my DD is friends with a hedge fund billionaire’s kid at a non ivy T20 - and having a blast. It’s the wannabees and try-hards who are the problem here - and that comes from mummy and daddy


The thread said all Top 20s are nerdy/geeky and nearly everyone agreed with that sentiment.

So…now I guess not all Top 20 schools are nerdy/geeky? Aren’t there lots of “try-hard” and “wannabes” at that school?

Do you know how many “hedge fund billionaire” kids are at the top 10 schools? I will clue you in…it’s most of them.
Anonymous
Post 08/25/2024 10:04     Subject: Anyone in a wealthy area that isn’t competitive with colleges?
Wealthy areas in Metro Detroit - kids want to get into Michigan, but most top kids aren’t gunning for ivies. Also know fairly similar, though maybe a bit more intense, in wealthy Chicago suburbs - very Big 10 focused - Illinois, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Michigan, etc.