Anonymous
08/10/2024 13:49
Subject: White folks, is Tim Walz a "unicorn"? (non-political)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Growing up a white man in the south is really hard I think because white men in the south, culturally, have never really been on the right side of anything. The best thing they have going is a thin veneer of chivalry in certain circumstances.
This is interesting because I can think of a lot of southern white men who I don't think struggled with this at all. Perhaps because they are from liberal families or maybe they figured out early on that the south was on the wrong side in the Civil War and just never really struggled over that or even identified with the confederacy. I am thinking of a lot of men I know personally but also very prominent public men like Stephen Colbert. I just know a lot of men from the south who both embrace southern courtesy and manners but also don't struggle in the least with concepts like "slavery is morally wrong" or "who other people want to marry is none of my business." Anecdotally the difference between the men who struggle and those who don't seems to be how they were raised and early influences in their lives like traveling a bit outside the south at a young age or going to college outside the south or in a more cosmopolitan part of the south.
Stephen Colbert was born in DC. His dad is a doctor who moved the family to Charleston. That’s not really who I’m talking about.
I hate to break this to you, but DC was in the South and slavery was legal there.
Yeah, also that was >100 years ago!! I’m talking about slavery as one era in a long journey of suck.
Anonymous
08/10/2024 13:47
Subject: White folks, is Tim Walz a "unicorn"? (non-political)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As a white woman, I think he is your typical sane, reasonable, solid person. The kind of person who will stop and help you if you have a car accident.
He seems to have a lot of charisma.
We'll see. We've only just met him, and don't know a lot about him yet.
Interesting . You know he has been arrested for a DUI, right? (Long ago)
And after that he stopped drinking and moved on. Being a good man doesn't mean you never make mistakes, it means you learn from your mistakes and try to do better.
Anonymous
08/10/2024 13:46
Subject: White folks, is Tim Walz a "unicorn"? (non-political)
Anonymous wrote:As a white woman, I think he is your typical sane, reasonable, solid person. The kind of person who will stop and help you if you have a car accident.
He seems to have a lot of charisma.
We'll see. We've only just met him, and don't know a lot about him yet.
Interesting . You know he has been arrested for a DUI, right? (Long ago)
Anonymous
08/10/2024 13:41
Subject: White folks, is Tim Walz a "unicorn"? (non-political)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:White woman here but I think this post is really insightful. I've long felt white men as a group (and sometimes individually) are struggling with identity. I also feel this way about white women!
I think one interesting thing about Walz is that he has embraced certain classic aspects of masculinity (football coach, military background, his general vibe) while also being an empathetic and clearly caring person (teacher, champion of children's issues, generally warm person). These things shouldn't be in opposition to each other but many men seem to struggle with it and fear appearing "soft." It's basically the whole issue of toxic masculinity and Walz doesn't seem to have struggled with it. He embraces "soft power" and leading with kindness and warmth.
As this poster suggests, when the focus of your life isn’t yourself, but rather serving other people, a lot of the “struggle” people seem to have with identity, purpose, etc., seem to evaporate.
Everybody is so focused on “getting ahead” that we rarely talk about leading a life of service in our country anymore outside of military service, ESPECIALLY for men. Women are expected to basically serve other people, sometimes to such an extreme that we lose ourselves in the process. There needs to be balance. Our leaders also de-emphasize service as in choosing service as the purpose of your life.
+1 over on the politics board there are people denigrating Walz for not being rich because he spent his life in service of others. As if not using your government position to get rich is something to look down on or be suspicious of.
There are a lot of men like him quietly going about their lives. My dad was one -- also from MN and I think he'd be so happy to see the Walz getting the spotlight. My DH is one too and we met doing volunteer work. So are many friends' husbands. And my son and nephews. One of my nephews in particular said that he learned how to be a man from my dad. He was the same kind of classic midwestern dad.
Anonymous
08/10/2024 13:38
Subject: White folks, is Tim Walz a "unicorn"? (non-political)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I know a lot of men like Walz (as described by the OP). He is not a unicorn. Too many biased people in this world. You all need to get out more.
You know, lots of men that publicly support LGBT people?
DP. I mean, yes? Of course, lots/most men do, at least generally.
Anonymous
08/10/2024 13:36
Subject: White folks, is Tim Walz a "unicorn"? (non-political)
Anonymous wrote:I am a 51 y o white ethnic woman from Brooklyn. Setting aside the stereotypically Midwestern things about TW, fundamentally he doesn’t seem that different from the middle class white Gen X guys I know.
What does white ethnic mean in this context?
Anonymous
08/10/2024 13:30
Subject: Re:White folks, is Tim Walz a "unicorn"? (non-political)
White woman from the Midwest: I grew up in a mixed socioeconomic suburb of a large city and found that most men were far more progressive then people would give them credit for and generally okay with themselves and with others. I think their biggest heartache was if they faced any financial difficulties. They were all pro gay marriage and pro abortion rights under the whole notion that it wasn’t their business and that it didn’t affect them. Most of them had mothers and wives who worked and often made more money or were the ones with better health insurance. And they all seemed good with that. Largely pragmatic people.
Anonymous
08/10/2024 13:27
Subject: Re:White folks, is Tim Walz a "unicorn"? (non-political)
I'm OP.
I'm listening and learning. Thank you for the thoughtful responses.
I believe the environment in which we're raised plays a big role in who we ultimately become. I think most agree, here.
I will say that based on my limited experience, White boys are raised pretty differently than Black boys. For example, there are different expectations on what it will require of them to make a decent life for themselves. I believe males generally feel different kinds of pressure here. Sorry, I understand this is pretty vague. And again, I'm obviously generalizing, but I think there's something there, potentially. And it manifests in different ways.
I appreciate everyone keeping this discussion non-political.
I'm listening and learning. Thank you for the thoughtful responses.
I believe the environment in which we're raised plays a big role in who we ultimately become. I think most agree, here.
I will say that based on my limited experience, White boys are raised pretty differently than Black boys. For example, there are different expectations on what it will require of them to make a decent life for themselves. I believe males generally feel different kinds of pressure here. Sorry, I understand this is pretty vague. And again, I'm obviously generalizing, but I think there's something there, potentially. And it manifests in different ways.
I appreciate everyone keeping this discussion non-political.
Anonymous
08/10/2024 13:22
Subject: White folks, is Tim Walz a "unicorn"? (non-political)
I am a 51 y o white ethnic woman from Brooklyn. Setting aside the stereotypically Midwestern things about TW, fundamentally he doesn’t seem that different from the middle class white Gen X guys I know.
Anonymous
08/10/2024 13:21
Subject: White folks, is Tim Walz a "unicorn"? (non-political)
Anonymous wrote:I know a lot of men like Walz (as described by the OP). He is not a unicorn. Too many biased people in this world. You all need to get out more.
You know, lots of men that publicly support LGBT people?
Anonymous
08/10/2024 13:20
Subject: White folks, is Tim Walz a "unicorn"? (non-political)
Anonymous wrote:My brothers who are between 60 and 70 years old white Catholic guys are all basically like him. Very invested in their families, supportive of their wives, basically kind and decent people. In previous decades they were swing voters but now they mostly vote Dem because they just don’t see any rationality or decency in the Republican candidates. They would vote for a Hogan.
I think there are a lot of guys like this but they maybe aren’t the majority any more among white men unforutnatelg. But not unicorns.
I don’t know if it helps that our dad was a silent generation type that has his flaws but was always a decent and responsible person, so that’s the mold that was set. I think my parents always too the “be kind” part of Catholicism seriously too, which helps. Someone who makes fun of disabled people or brags about assaulting women is just not gojng to fly in my family, even among those that often voted Republican in the past. They don’t live in Maryland but they’d support someone like a Hogan or a Romney or a McCain.
Do you have brothers who served their country and then took a low pay job? Volunteered as a sports coach and lead an LGBT club? Or similar?
Please elaborate.
Anonymous
08/10/2024 13:08
Subject: White folks, is Tim Walz a "unicorn"? (non-political)
Anonymous wrote:My brothers who are between 60 and 70 years old white Catholic guys are all basically like him. Very invested in their families, supportive of their wives, basically kind and decent people. In previous decades they were swing voters but now they mostly vote Dem because they just don’t see any rationality or decency in the Republican candidates. They would vote for a Hogan.
I think there are a lot of guys like this but they maybe aren’t the majority any more among white men unforutnatelg. But not unicorns.
I don’t know if it helps that our dad was a silent generation type that has his flaws but was always a decent and responsible person, so that’s the mold that was set. I think my parents always too the “be kind” part of Catholicism seriously too, which helps. Someone who makes fun of disabled people or brags about assaulting women is just not gojng to fly in my family, even among those that often voted Republican in the past. They don’t live in Maryland but they’d support someone like a Hogan or a Romney or a McCain.
Do you only know men who are 60 or older? No friends, sons, nephews? Friends' kids?
Anonymous
08/10/2024 13:00
Subject: White folks, is Tim Walz a "unicorn"? (non-political)
My brothers who are between 60 and 70 years old white Catholic guys are all basically like him. Very invested in their families, supportive of their wives, basically kind and decent people. In previous decades they were swing voters but now they mostly vote Dem because they just don’t see any rationality or decency in the Republican candidates. They would vote for a Hogan.
I think there are a lot of guys like this but they maybe aren’t the majority any more among white men unforutnatelg. But not unicorns.
I don’t know if it helps that our dad was a silent generation type that has his flaws but was always a decent and responsible person, so that’s the mold that was set. I think my parents always too the “be kind” part of Catholicism seriously too, which helps. Someone who makes fun of disabled people or brags about assaulting women is just not gojng to fly in my family, even among those that often voted Republican in the past. They don’t live in Maryland but they’d support someone like a Hogan or a Romney or a McCain.
I think there are a lot of guys like this but they maybe aren’t the majority any more among white men unforutnatelg. But not unicorns.
I don’t know if it helps that our dad was a silent generation type that has his flaws but was always a decent and responsible person, so that’s the mold that was set. I think my parents always too the “be kind” part of Catholicism seriously too, which helps. Someone who makes fun of disabled people or brags about assaulting women is just not gojng to fly in my family, even among those that often voted Republican in the past. They don’t live in Maryland but they’d support someone like a Hogan or a Romney or a McCain.
Anonymous
08/10/2024 12:51
Subject: White folks, is Tim Walz a "unicorn"? (non-political)
Anonymous wrote:I know a lot of men like Walz (as described by the OP). He is not a unicorn. Too many biased people in this world. You all need to get out more.
NP.
I think OP and others are correct on the fact that a lot of white men are a bit lost when it comes to their identity, and haven't had a lot of good role models in recent history. DJT hit home with them and a void, but it's a very superficial and dangerous void. Perhaps many of those men have a lot of decent qualities, but they're still lost about their place in society and the world. Walz has found it. I hope older white men can look to him as a good example of masculinity and purposefulness.
Anonymous
08/10/2024 12:46
Subject: White folks, is Tim Walz a "unicorn"? (non-political)
Anonymous wrote:Somehow our country has amplified the stereotypical close-minded redneck version of white men.
Having a major party candidate running around for 9 years telling closed-minded redneck white men that it’s great to be that way, that America was greater when they were happier with it, and that people asking them to modernize are “snowflakes” didn’t help.