Anonymous wrote:Sump pumps and perimeter drains are absolutely NOT required, not a default part of new home construction. As a PP noted in their work - same in mine (in multi-million $$$ custom builds) -while installed in some but I certainly do not include in all. But the short term black flex pipe solution for OP is fine until downspout re-connected.

Can you show me a multi million custom build with a finished basement and no perimeter drains? That is wild to me. I’m not questioning you, I just want to know how/where it works. Every house in the DC area I’ve lived in has either had a damp basement or drains.

Sump pumps and perimeter drains are absolutely NOT required, not a default part of new home construction. As a PP noted in their work - same in mine (in multi-million $$$ custom builds) -while installed in some but I certainly do not include in all. But the short term black flex pipe solution for OP is fine until downspout re-connected.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It should be fine, OP. Not ideal but your house has perimeter drains and if they’re working properly, they can handle it.

Utter nonsense.

If perimeter drains could handle it, why would the house have gutters and downspouts?

There was a time after perimeter drains were introduced, in the 50's and 60's, when people thought they were magic and could handle any amount of water. Houses were built without gutters and downspouts. Those that are still standing were retrofitted with gutters and downspouts.

All homes built after 90s have exterior French drains and sump , you should be able to not ever have water in the basement even if a downspout fails.

This is complete and utter bullsh*t. I put up 1200 homes last year for a major east coast builder and not a single one had an exterior french drain. Not one.

This is true. We don’t have them on our new home.

That's wild, you should have gotten an inspection

Your inspector won't see if the house has or doesn't have french drains.

Wouldn’t they see if there’s no sump pump?

A sump pump isn't required. It's better practice, if the site allows, to have drains go to daylight using only gravity. That way you're not dependent on having power and the sump pump working. If there's a pipe coming out of the ground 20' away from the house the inspector's not going to know what it's for.

I guess I assume the inspector would check for that. Ours did, and explained the purpose(s) of the sump pump. I figure not that many houses with finished basements are set up for gravity drains, right? I mean that would be a pretty steep slope.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It should be fine, OP. Not ideal but your house has perimeter drains and if they’re working properly, they can handle it.

Utter nonsense.

If perimeter drains could handle it, why would the house have gutters and downspouts?

There was a time after perimeter drains were introduced, in the 50's and 60's, when people thought they were magic and could handle any amount of water. Houses were built without gutters and downspouts. Those that are still standing were retrofitted with gutters and downspouts.

All homes built after 90s have exterior French drains and sump , you should be able to not ever have water in the basement even if a downspout fails.

This is complete and utter bullsh*t. I put up 1200 homes last year for a major east coast builder and not a single one had an exterior french drain. Not one.

Wait, how is this possible?!?

Because they don't? Walk any development and see for yourself. It's an upgrade you can elect for but Dan Ryan is not installing French drains in every single house. Ask me how I know.

How are they waterproofing the basements?

They use gutters, downspouts and grading to keep the water away.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It should be fine, OP. Not ideal but your house has perimeter drains and if they’re working properly, they can handle it.

Utter nonsense.

If perimeter drains could handle it, why would the house have gutters and downspouts?

There was a time after perimeter drains were introduced, in the 50's and 60's, when people thought they were magic and could handle any amount of water. Houses were built without gutters and downspouts. Those that are still standing were retrofitted with gutters and downspouts.

All homes built after 90s have exterior French drains and sump , you should be able to not ever have water in the basement even if a downspout fails.

This is complete and utter bullsh*t. I put up 1200 homes last year for a major east coast builder and not a single one had an exterior french drain. Not one.

This is true. We don’t have them on our new home.

That's wild, you should have gotten an inspection

Your inspector won't see if the house has or doesn't have french drains.

Wouldn’t they see if there’s no sump pump?

A sump pump isn't required. It's better practice, if the site allows, to have drains go to daylight using only gravity. That way you're not dependent on having power and the sump pump working. If there's a pipe coming out of the ground 20' away from the house the inspector's not going to know what it's for.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It should be fine, OP. Not ideal but your house has perimeter drains and if they’re working properly, they can handle it.

Utter nonsense.

If perimeter drains could handle it, why would the house have gutters and downspouts?

There was a time after perimeter drains were introduced, in the 50's and 60's, when people thought they were magic and could handle any amount of water. Houses were built without gutters and downspouts. Those that are still standing were retrofitted with gutters and downspouts.

All homes built after 90s have exterior French drains and sump , you should be able to not ever have water in the basement even if a downspout fails.

Again, utter nonsense.

A typical summer rainstorm might drop an inch of rain in an hour. If a house has one thousand square feet of roof, that's 83 cubic feet per hour, or 667 gallons per hour or 11 gallons per minute. The perimeter drains are a horizontal pipe, they're going to be completely overwhelmed by that level of flow.

They are meant as a backup for any water that gets past the gutters and downspouts, they're not meant to take the whole flow.

Okay but one storm? Wouldn’t the water just sit by the foundation for a few hours waiting to drain? I’m not saying it’s good but I would be shocked if that led to an immediate problem.

It would sit by the foundation looking for every crack and crevice that wasn't perfectly waterproof and finding its way in.

Foundations aren't submarines, they aren't perfectly waterproof.

Yeah, but that’s what the drain is for! And the plastic pimple stuff. Our sump pump got stuck once and water backed up in the pit and presumably the drains for several hours. It was fine! I don’t think the drains being temporarily overwhelmed will give OP a problem as long as it gets fixed.

You have no concept of scale.

The perimeter drains are there if a couple of gallons of water sneak past the gutters. The gutters are meant to divert hundreds or thousands of gallons of water per hour.

No part of the exterior of a house is truly waterproof. The way the whole thing is built is you use mostly waterproof materials, then you do everything you can to direct the bulk of the water away so it doesn't leak. Roofing, siding, windows, doors, are all like that. And the basement is no exception. That dimple mat will have seams, fluid applied coatings will have thin spots, foundations will have cracks. If enough water is against it for enough time, some will leak in.

No part of a house is waterproof like a boat. And boats aren't even completely waterproof, they have bilge pumps.

Yes!! One storm! One storm happened with one broken downspout. OP doesn’t say she had a huge puddle for a day or anything like that. Something to fix promptly, not a disaster.

One storm can dump hundreds of gallons of water down the downspouts. It only takes a couple of gallons in a finished basement to cause problems.

Some building materials can get wet and dry out with no problem, some can't and have to be replaced.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It should be fine, OP. Not ideal but your house has perimeter drains and if they’re working properly, they can handle it.

Utter nonsense.

If perimeter drains could handle it, why would the house have gutters and downspouts?

There was a time after perimeter drains were introduced, in the 50's and 60's, when people thought they were magic and could handle any amount of water. Houses were built without gutters and downspouts. Those that are still standing were retrofitted with gutters and downspouts.

All homes built after 90s have exterior French drains and sump , you should be able to not ever have water in the basement even if a downspout fails.

Again, utter nonsense.

A typical summer rainstorm might drop an inch of rain in an hour. If a house has one thousand square feet of roof, that's 83 cubic feet per hour, or 667 gallons per hour or 11 gallons per minute. The perimeter drains are a horizontal pipe, they're going to be completely overwhelmed by that level of flow.

They are meant as a backup for any water that gets past the gutters and downspouts, they're not meant to take the whole flow.

Okay but one storm? Wouldn’t the water just sit by the foundation for a few hours waiting to drain? I’m not saying it’s good but I would be shocked if that led to an immediate problem.

It would sit by the foundation looking for every crack and crevice that wasn't perfectly waterproof and finding its way in.

Foundations aren't submarines, they aren't perfectly waterproof.

Yeah, but that’s what the drain is for! And the plastic pimple stuff. Our sump pump got stuck once and water backed up in the pit and presumably the drains for several hours. It was fine! I don’t think the drains being temporarily overwhelmed will give OP a problem as long as it gets fixed.

You have no concept of scale.

The perimeter drains are there if a couple of gallons of water sneak past the gutters. The gutters are meant to divert hundreds or thousands of gallons of water per hour.

No part of the exterior of a house is truly waterproof. The way the whole thing is built is you use mostly waterproof materials, then you do everything you can to direct the bulk of the water away so it doesn't leak. Roofing, siding, windows, doors, are all like that. And the basement is no exception. That dimple mat will have seams, fluid applied coatings will have thin spots, foundations will have cracks. If enough water is against it for enough time, some will leak in.

No part of a house is waterproof like a boat. And boats aren't even completely waterproof, they have bilge pumps.

Yes!! One storm! One storm happened with one broken downspout. OP doesn’t say she had a huge puddle for a day or anything like that. Something to fix promptly, not a disaster.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It should be fine, OP. Not ideal but your house has perimeter drains and if they’re working properly, they can handle it.

Utter nonsense.

If perimeter drains could handle it, why would the house have gutters and downspouts?

There was a time after perimeter drains were introduced, in the 50's and 60's, when people thought they were magic and could handle any amount of water. Houses were built without gutters and downspouts. Those that are still standing were retrofitted with gutters and downspouts.

All homes built after 90s have exterior French drains and sump , you should be able to not ever have water in the basement even if a downspout fails.

This is complete and utter bullsh*t. I put up 1200 homes last year for a major east coast builder and not a single one had an exterior french drain. Not one.

This is true. We don’t have them on our new home.

That's wild, you should have gotten an inspection

Your inspector won't see if the house has or doesn't have french drains.

Wouldn’t they see if there’s no sump pump?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It should be fine, OP. Not ideal but your house has perimeter drains and if they’re working properly, they can handle it.

Utter nonsense.

If perimeter drains could handle it, why would the house have gutters and downspouts?

There was a time after perimeter drains were introduced, in the 50's and 60's, when people thought they were magic and could handle any amount of water. Houses were built without gutters and downspouts. Those that are still standing were retrofitted with gutters and downspouts.

All homes built after 90s have exterior French drains and sump , you should be able to not ever have water in the basement even if a downspout fails.

This is complete and utter bullsh*t. I put up 1200 homes last year for a major east coast builder and not a single one had an exterior french drain. Not one.

Wait, how is this possible?!?

Because they don't? Walk any development and see for yourself. It's an upgrade you can elect for but Dan Ryan is not installing French drains in every single house. Ask me how I know.

How are they waterproofing the basements?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It should be fine, OP. Not ideal but your house has perimeter drains and if they’re working properly, they can handle it.

Utter nonsense.

If perimeter drains could handle it, why would the house have gutters and downspouts?

There was a time after perimeter drains were introduced, in the 50's and 60's, when people thought they were magic and could handle any amount of water. Houses were built without gutters and downspouts. Those that are still standing were retrofitted with gutters and downspouts.

All homes built after 90s have exterior French drains and sump , you should be able to not ever have water in the basement even if a downspout fails.

This is complete and utter bullsh*t. I put up 1200 homes last year for a major east coast builder and not a single one had an exterior french drain. Not one.

Wait, how is this possible?!?

Because they don't? Walk any development and see for yourself. It's an upgrade you can elect for but Dan Ryan is not installing French drains in every single house. Ask me how I know.

They aren't installing them for sure.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It should be fine, OP. Not ideal but your house has perimeter drains and if they’re working properly, they can handle it.

Utter nonsense.

If perimeter drains could handle it, why would the house have gutters and downspouts?

There was a time after perimeter drains were introduced, in the 50's and 60's, when people thought they were magic and could handle any amount of water. Houses were built without gutters and downspouts. Those that are still standing were retrofitted with gutters and downspouts.

All homes built after 90s have exterior French drains and sump , you should be able to not ever have water in the basement even if a downspout fails.

This is complete and utter bullsh*t. I put up 1200 homes last year for a major east coast builder and not a single one had an exterior french drain. Not one.

This is true. We don’t have them on our new home.

That's wild, you should have gotten an inspection

Your inspector won't see if the house has or doesn't have french drains.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It should be fine, OP. Not ideal but your house has perimeter drains and if they’re working properly, they can handle it.

Utter nonsense.

If perimeter drains could handle it, why would the house have gutters and downspouts?

There was a time after perimeter drains were introduced, in the 50's and 60's, when people thought they were magic and could handle any amount of water. Houses were built without gutters and downspouts. Those that are still standing were retrofitted with gutters and downspouts.

All homes built after 90s have exterior French drains and sump , you should be able to not ever have water in the basement even if a downspout fails.

This is complete and utter bullsh*t. I put up 1200 homes last year for a major east coast builder and not a single one had an exterior french drain. Not one.

Wait, how is this possible?!?

Because they don't? Walk any development and see for yourself. It's an upgrade you can elect for but Dan Ryan is not installing French drains in every single house. Ask me how I know.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It should be fine, OP. Not ideal but your house has perimeter drains and if they’re working properly, they can handle it.

Utter nonsense.

If perimeter drains could handle it, why would the house have gutters and downspouts?

There was a time after perimeter drains were introduced, in the 50's and 60's, when people thought they were magic and could handle any amount of water. Houses were built without gutters and downspouts. Those that are still standing were retrofitted with gutters and downspouts.

All homes built after 90s have exterior French drains and sump , you should be able to not ever have water in the basement even if a downspout fails.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

This is complete and utter bullsh*t. I put up 1200 homes last year for a major east coast builder and not a single one had an exterior french drain. Not one.

This is true. We don’t have them on our new home.

That's wild, you should have gotten an inspection

No. Code interpretation varies from locality to locality, and not all localities (or even states) have adopted the latest versions of the (conceptual) reference building code.

VA and MD have different interpretations in several areas of the code, for example. Some localities adopt selected parts of the newer conceptual building code but do not adopt all of it.

Purely as an example of local variation, MoCo requires an inspection after the Tyvek is on the exterior and before the siding, but Fairfax County does not even want to see that stage.

Okay but I’m not sure they can build a house without perimeter drains. Maybe there’s some confusion here about terminology, or people don’t know what they are because they can’t see them, and maybe they drain by gravity so there’s no sump pit.

The model code allows for houses built on well-drained soil not to have perimeter drains.
"Exception: A drainage system is not required where the foundation is installed on well-drained ground or sand-gravel mixture soils according to the Unified Soil Classification System, Group I soils, as detailed in Table R405.1."

In other soil, drains are only required where there is "habitable or usable spaces located below grade." So a house with a slab on grade, or only crawlspace, doesn't require drains.

https://codes.iccsafe.org/s/IRC2021P2/part-iii-building-planning-and-construction/IRC2021P2-Pt03-Ch04-SecR405.1

Since the primary purpose of drains is to protect the foundation from water damage, my personal opinion is this code section is too lenient.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It should be fine, OP. Not ideal but your house has perimeter drains and if they’re working properly, they can handle it.

Utter nonsense.

If perimeter drains could handle it, why would the house have gutters and downspouts?

There was a time after perimeter drains were introduced, in the 50's and 60's, when people thought they were magic and could handle any amount of water. Houses were built without gutters and downspouts. Those that are still standing were retrofitted with gutters and downspouts.

All homes built after 90s have exterior French drains and sump , you should be able to not ever have water in the basement even if a downspout fails.

This is complete and utter bullsh*t. I put up 1200 homes last year for a major east coast builder and not a single one had an exterior french drain. Not one.

This is true. We don’t have them on our new home.

Wait so tell me more about this. Does the house have a basement? How does it handle the water?

The same way water was handled for thousands of years before perimeter drains were invented in the second half of the twentieth century: grading, gutters and downspouts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It should be fine, OP. Not ideal but your house has perimeter drains and if they’re working properly, they can handle it.

Utter nonsense.

If perimeter drains could handle it, why would the house have gutters and downspouts?

There was a time after perimeter drains were introduced, in the 50's and 60's, when people thought they were magic and could handle any amount of water. Houses were built without gutters and downspouts. Those that are still standing were retrofitted with gutters and downspouts.

All homes built after 90s have exterior French drains and sump , you should be able to not ever have water in the basement even if a downspout fails.

Again, utter nonsense.

A typical summer rainstorm might drop an inch of rain in an hour. If a house has one thousand square feet of roof, that's 83 cubic feet per hour, or 667 gallons per hour or 11 gallons per minute. The perimeter drains are a horizontal pipe, they're going to be completely overwhelmed by that level of flow.

They are meant as a backup for any water that gets past the gutters and downspouts, they're not meant to take the whole flow.

Okay but one storm? Wouldn’t the water just sit by the foundation for a few hours waiting to drain? I’m not saying it’s good but I would be shocked if that led to an immediate problem.

It would sit by the foundation looking for every crack and crevice that wasn't perfectly waterproof and finding its way in.

Foundations aren't submarines, they aren't perfectly waterproof.

Yeah, but that’s what the drain is for! And the plastic pimple stuff. Our sump pump got stuck once and water backed up in the pit and presumably the drains for several hours. It was fine! I don’t think the drains being temporarily overwhelmed will give OP a problem as long as it gets fixed.

You have no concept of scale.

The perimeter drains are there if a couple of gallons of water sneak past the gutters. The gutters are meant to divert hundreds or thousands of gallons of water per hour.

No part of the exterior of a house is truly waterproof. The way the whole thing is built is you use mostly waterproof materials, then you do everything you can to direct the bulk of the water away so it doesn't leak. Roofing, siding, windows, doors, are all like that. And the basement is no exception. That dimple mat will have seams, fluid applied coatings will have thin spots, foundations will have cracks. If enough water is against it for enough time, some will leak in.

No part of a house is waterproof like a boat. And boats aren't even completely waterproof, they have bilge pumps.