Anonymous
Post 08/04/2024 08:15     Subject: Are safaris in Africa ethical?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You know who should decide this?

The people in the countries where the safaris are.

Fortunately, that is the way it works.


I don't even understand what you are saying. The people in the countries with the safaris should decide whether safaris are ethical or not? That does not make sense -- everyone has to decide for themselves whether an activity meets their own ethical standards. If the people of Botswana are like "we are all very happy with the safari ethics in our country" but OP's DH is not then the safaris are not ethical according to his standards and it doesn't matter what people in Botswana think.

Also you are assuming there is consensus in these countries regarding safari tourism and there very much is not. Every country that offers safaris has people who oppose them and people who support them. And people make both ethical and unethical arguments both in favor and against safaris. Safaris bring in money and create employment and can increase understanding and awareness of both environmental and cultural and political issues in these countries. But sometimes the safari companies are mostly taking profits out of the country and underpay or mistreat the people employed in Africa. Some safari companies are terrible and engage in awful environmental practices. Some safari visitors are respectful of their host countries and behave well. Some very much do not. Some of the countries that host safaris have racism and oppression of certain ethnicities and the benefits of safari tourism are kept from those communities and hoarded.

It's not so simple as "Well if this is something someone in Kenya or South Africa or Botswana is willing to offer then it must be ethical and broadly viewed that way in these countries." It varies by country and can vary by company and region and practice.


The fact that you don’t understand does not make the logic any less valid.


Actually it does-- if you can't clearly communicate the logic then your point is not valid. At least not outside of your own head.
Anonymous
Post 08/04/2024 08:12     Subject: Are safaris in Africa ethical?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You know who should decide this?

The people in the countries where the safaris are.

Fortunately, that is the way it works.


I don't even understand what you are saying. The people in the countries with the safaris should decide whether safaris are ethical or not? That does not make sense -- everyone has to decide for themselves whether an activity meets their own ethical standards. If the people of Botswana are like "we are all very happy with the safari ethics in our country" but OP's DH is not then the safaris are not ethical according to his standards and it doesn't matter what people in Botswana think.

Also you are assuming there is consensus in these countries regarding safari tourism and there very much is not. Every country that offers safaris has people who oppose them and people who support them. And people make both ethical and unethical arguments both in favor and against safaris. Safaris bring in money and create employment and can increase understanding and awareness of both environmental and cultural and political issues in these countries. But sometimes the safari companies are mostly taking profits out of the country and underpay or mistreat the people employed in Africa. Some safari companies are terrible and engage in awful environmental practices. Some safari visitors are respectful of their host countries and behave well. Some very much do not. Some of the countries that host safaris have racism and oppression of certain ethnicities and the benefits of safari tourism are kept from those communities and hoarded.

It's not so simple as "Well if this is something someone in Kenya or South Africa or Botswana is willing to offer then it must be ethical and broadly viewed that way in these countries." It varies by country and can vary by company and region and practice.


The people in the relevant countries can decide for themselves whether to encourage having safaris or ban them altogether, rather than let some westerners who don't have any idea about the history, culture, or conditions in their country tell them that what they're doing is unethical with some made up hypotheticals.
Anonymous
Post 08/04/2024 07:20     Subject: Are safaris in Africa ethical?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You know who should decide this?

The people in the countries where the safaris are.

Fortunately, that is the way it works.


I don't even understand what you are saying. The people in the countries with the safaris should decide whether safaris are ethical or not? That does not make sense -- everyone has to decide for themselves whether an activity meets their own ethical standards. If the people of Botswana are like "we are all very happy with the safari ethics in our country" but OP's DH is not then the safaris are not ethical according to his standards and it doesn't matter what people in Botswana think.

Also you are assuming there is consensus in these countries regarding safari tourism and there very much is not. Every country that offers safaris has people who oppose them and people who support them. And people make both ethical and unethical arguments both in favor and against safaris. Safaris bring in money and create employment and can increase understanding and awareness of both environmental and cultural and political issues in these countries. But sometimes the safari companies are mostly taking profits out of the country and underpay or mistreat the people employed in Africa. Some safari companies are terrible and engage in awful environmental practices. Some safari visitors are respectful of their host countries and behave well. Some very much do not. Some of the countries that host safaris have racism and oppression of certain ethnicities and the benefits of safari tourism are kept from those communities and hoarded.

It's not so simple as "Well if this is something someone in Kenya or South Africa or Botswana is willing to offer then it must be ethical and broadly viewed that way in these countries." It varies by country and can vary by company and region and practice.


The fact that you don’t understand does not make the logic any less valid.
Anonymous
Post 08/04/2024 06:35     Subject: Are safaris in Africa ethical?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you go with a local, ethically managed safari company like the one my friend runs in Tanzania, I can't imagine a less destructive vacation.

She previously worked at a non-profit that had quite a bit of ethical tourism and she oversaw the program.

Could safaris be unethical? Yes.

But it's not the same as voluntourism which is basically taking day labor jobs from locals. It's about learning about another part of the world, seeing nature, and giving money to a likely impoverished local economy. All good things to do.

I'd have more ethical concerns about the flight over.


What’s your friend’s company? I went to Tanzania long ago and am thinking of planning another trip soon!


It's Tanzania Choice Safaris:
https://tanzaniachoicesafaris.com/



I am the person who posted right above yours. If you've recommended Tanzania Choice Safaris before (about 2 years ago) on DCUM, I wanted to thank you. We went with them in 2023 and had a fabulous trip!
Anonymous
Post 08/04/2024 05:06     Subject: Are safaris in Africa ethical?
Anonymous wrote:You can go with Natural Habitat Adventures. They’re partnered with the World Wildlife Fund. Some of their profits go to conservation and they’re very conscientious about respecting the wildlife and environment. They’re also very expensive though.

https://www.nathab.com/africa/


This. I’ve been with them even though I’m not a WWF loyalist (think they do good work but prefer to donate elsewhere generally). Nathab does the best it can given that there are obvious trade offs here as PP have thoughtfully outlined.
Anonymous
Post 08/04/2024 04:30     Subject: Are safaris in Africa ethical?
Whatever you decide make sure the car looks safe and isn’t dining chairs bolted to the bed of a pickup.
Anonymous
Post 08/04/2024 03:59     Subject: Are safaris in Africa ethical?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you go with a local, ethically managed safari company like the one my friend runs in Tanzania, I can't imagine a less destructive vacation.

She previously worked at a non-profit that had quite a bit of ethical tourism and she oversaw the program.

Could safaris be unethical? Yes.

But it's not the same as voluntourism which is basically taking day labor jobs from locals. It's about learning about another part of the world, seeing nature, and giving money to a likely impoverished local economy. All good things to do.

I'd have more ethical concerns about the flight over.


What’s your friend’s company? I went to Tanzania long ago and am thinking of planning another trip soon!


It's Tanzania Choice Safaris:
https://tanzaniachoicesafaris.com/
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2024 19:50     Subject: Are safaris in Africa ethical?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you go with a local, ethically managed safari company like the one my friend runs in Tanzania, I can't imagine a less destructive vacation.

She previously worked at a non-profit that had quite a bit of ethical tourism and she oversaw the program.

Could safaris be unethical? Yes.

But it's not the same as voluntourism which is basically taking day labor jobs from locals. It's about learning about another part of the world, seeing nature, and giving money to a likely impoverished local economy. All good things to do.

I'd have more ethical concerns about the flight over.


What’s your friend’s company? I went to Tanzania long ago and am thinking of planning another trip soon!


I'm not the person you're quoting, but last year we went to Tanzania and worked with Tanzania Choice Safaris, based on a DCUM recommendation. The woman who runs the company used to live in the U.S. and work for a not-for-profit. She is married to a Tanzanian man and they run the company together. The company and the guides are great -- very respectful of the animals and the land. I could not recommend them more.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2024 10:52     Subject: Are safaris in Africa ethical?
Tanzania was also my favorite safari experience. Some great operators there, too.

I know of some great community owned eco lodges in South Africa, but that’s not a typical safari experience. South Africa is worth a few weeks there— not for just wildlife but for culture, hiking, etc.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2024 10:30     Subject: Are safaris in Africa ethical?
Tanzania is the best for safaris. Sure, Kenya is close. If you are going to do it, do it right and pay more to go to Tanzania and not to some small safari. However, I saw most lions on a small Mikumi safari.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2024 10:29     Subject: Are safaris in Africa ethical?
If you go, just make sure to tip your driver a lot.
They are allegedly paid by the company they work for, but they do not pay them. They are paid a minimum wage because they tell them they will get a huge tip. But a lot of Westerners give a larger tip to their waiter at one dinner.

We had a driver for three or four days in 2002 Tanzania. We gave them a tip of over $100.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2024 10:25     Subject: Are safaris in Africa ethical?
Anonymous wrote:You know who should decide this?

The people in the countries where the safaris are.

Fortunately, that is the way it works.


I don't even understand what you are saying. The people in the countries with the safaris should decide whether safaris are ethical or not? That does not make sense -- everyone has to decide for themselves whether an activity meets their own ethical standards. If the people of Botswana are like "we are all very happy with the safari ethics in our country" but OP's DH is not then the safaris are not ethical according to his standards and it doesn't matter what people in Botswana think.

Also you are assuming there is consensus in these countries regarding safari tourism and there very much is not. Every country that offers safaris has people who oppose them and people who support them. And people make both ethical and unethical arguments both in favor and against safaris. Safaris bring in money and create employment and can increase understanding and awareness of both environmental and cultural and political issues in these countries. But sometimes the safari companies are mostly taking profits out of the country and underpay or mistreat the people employed in Africa. Some safari companies are terrible and engage in awful environmental practices. Some safari visitors are respectful of their host countries and behave well. Some very much do not. Some of the countries that host safaris have racism and oppression of certain ethnicities and the benefits of safari tourism are kept from those communities and hoarded.

It's not so simple as "Well if this is something someone in Kenya or South Africa or Botswana is willing to offer then it must be ethical and broadly viewed that way in these countries." It varies by country and can vary by company and region and practice.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2024 10:13     Subject: Are safaris in Africa ethical?
Anonymous wrote:Achingly politically correct attempt.


I suspect that’s just a facade and he’s actually cheap and is put off by the cost.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2024 10:10     Subject: Are safaris in Africa ethical?
You know who should decide this?

The people in the countries where the safaris are.

Fortunately, that is the way it works.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2024 10:09     Subject: Are safaris in Africa ethical?
Anonymous wrote:Is it unethical to travel anywhere?

As for safaris, like anything else, it depends. There are many different kinds, many different tour operators, many different accommodations. You can choose locally owned operations who try to abide by certain standards, particularly out of respect for the animals and their habitats, and stay at lodges that are community-owned and are indeed the center and support of a community. Do a lot of research.

If this isn’t a troll post (kind of seems designed for an argument)…his pronouncement that safaris are “unethical” is silly. I’m sure some are, some aren’t. Some travel to Europe is unethical. But it’s weird to think that safaris are particularly unethical, given that many local people, who run their own companies aimed at showing people the stunning wildlife in their communities, are not doing it in a way that is ethical and responsible.


I agree with you (and said as much upthread -- OP just needs to look into ethical safari countries and companies and present that info to her DH who may not know that there are options).

But I also think the responses on this thread that try to equate all travel as equally ethically challenging are disingenous. While I don't think safaris are de facto unethical I actually think it's reasonable for a person to have more questions about certain kinds of travel. I get why OP's DH might have concerns about the ethics of safaris. When you visit countries with a lot of poverty and history of civil unrest it really ups the chances that the tourism industry could be really exploitative. And then add in the safari element and how easily tourism activity can become really bad for the environment and the potential exploitation of animals and it's actually pretty reasonable that OP's DH has reservations.

Plus African safaris used to be pretty horribly unethical and it's really only in the last 20 years that more ethical companies have cropped up and some countries have cracked down on the various very exploitative and damaging practices in an effort to protect their wildlife and in some cases to ensure people are treated better. At the same time safaris have also become much more popular with a rising global upper middle class and social media motivating people to have more "Instagram-worthy" experiences.

OP's DH doens't have some silly and totally unfounded concern.