Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe but in a country that prioritizes other sports over soccer, he may have never played soccer in the first place.

I have always thought this debate was a poor one. Top athletes play football, basketball, and baseball before soccer.

If the top 100 players alone in either football or basketball grew up playing soccer instead, we would have a dynasty. Imagine Lebron James in goal and Tyreek Hill as an attacking CM. Oh hell…NFL edition is soccer was top sport in US.

GK - AJ Brown
CB - Micah Parsons
CB- Travis Kelce
LB - Christian Mcaffrey
RB - Antoine Winfield Jr
HCM - Lamar Jackson or Mahomes
ACM - Tyreek Hill
LW - Ceedee Lamb
RW - Deebo Samual
ST - Justin Jefferson
ST - Devante Adams

This type of thinking is why we can’t have nice things

LMAO! My fav is Lamar Jackson or Mahomes? Thats a tough one cause their skill sets are soooo similiar in football too, totally would translate to soccer field, right!

They'll just scramble around in circles then slide feet first to distract the opponents 😂

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe but in a country that prioritizes other sports over soccer, he may have never played soccer in the first place.

I have always thought this debate was a poor one. Top athletes play football, basketball, and baseball before soccer.

If the top 100 players alone in either football or basketball grew up playing soccer instead, we would have a dynasty. Imagine Lebron James in goal and Tyreek Hill as an attacking CM. Oh hell…NFL edition is soccer was top sport in US.

GK - AJ Brown
CB - Micah Parsons
CB- Travis Kelce
LB - Christian Mcaffrey
RB - Antoine Winfield Jr
HCM - Lamar Jackson or Mahomes
ACM - Tyreek Hill
LW - Ceedee Lamb
RW - Deebo Samual
ST - Justin Jefferson
ST - Devante Adams

This type of thinking is why we can’t have nice things

LMAO! My fav is Lamar Jackson or Mahomes? Thats a tough one cause their skill sets are soooo similiar in football too, totally would translate to soccer field, right!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Freddy knows because he was on the other end of the spectrum originally. Freddy was an early bloomer who stopped growing once entering MLS. Him pointing this out gives it even more credence because he knows damn well that he was given chances because he hit puberty early. Also, keep in mind, that in their late teens to early 20's...Freddy had a hire FIFA ranking than Messi. #fact

Those of us around at that time know Freddy was older than what was put on his papers. Once everyone else matured his physical age advantage was no longer a thing.

It was a running joke in the dmv for quite some time—well known he was older. I’ve seen it with other immigrants without proper papers on arrival—they assign an age

And therein lies Freddy's exact point. Any kid who is physically a 16 year old with decent skills is going to mop up against 14 year olds who are just hitting puberty. Whether it be via early birth, growth, or puberty, we have a problem in this country with advancing the strongest at the time for immediate wins. Adults are the problem. I've seen this with my own kid, who is small. If you put him in a group of older, bigger kids...the kids at first wonder what he's doing there. But, after about 20 minutes they see the skill and fully accept him. Adults have harder unconscious bias, and they will see a small kid lose the ball once and pull him. A big kid can lose the ball 20 times and it will be deemed as part of the game. Check out the Hugo Perez video on how the USYNT tried running Christian Pulisic off the team and nobody in MLS wanted him. It took one guy begging them to use him in the right way to keep him around. The rest of the staff wanted to kick him to the curb because of his size. They then go to Europe, and the Germans (who are not exactly known as small people), said "If these idiots aren't going to take advantage of this talent, we will." Happens every day with much less notable kids.

Anonymous wrote:Maybe but in a country that prioritizes other sports over soccer, he may have never played soccer in the first place.

I have always thought this debate was a poor one. Top athletes play football, basketball, and baseball before soccer.

If the top 100 players alone in either football or basketball grew up playing soccer instead, we would have a dynasty. Imagine Lebron James in goal and Tyreek Hill as an attacking CM. Oh hell…NFL edition is soccer was top sport in US.

GK - AJ Brown
CB - Micah Parsons
CB- Travis Kelce
LB - Christian Mcaffrey
RB - Antoine Winfield Jr
HCM - Lamar Jackson or Mahomes
ACM - Tyreek Hill
LW - Ceedee Lamb
RW - Deebo Samual
ST - Justin Jefferson
ST - Devante Adams

This type of thinking is why we can’t have nice things

How is work rate measured? Seems pretty nebulous compared to size and speed.

If I had a nickel for every American who made it to the ball ahead of opponent only to lose it with poor touch I’d be a VERY rich man.

Correct this and American soccer will get better overnight.

Anonymous wrote:Colleges are moving focus to work rate above all else over the past couple years. Not only that, they are putting work rate over size, speed and IQ. You are not going to see that yet at the older groups but it’s coming.

The problem from what I am seeing is that IQ is now totally pushed down to last.

What USYNT and Colleges are currently looking for:
1. Work Rate
2. Speed
3. Technical Ability
4. Size
5. Endurance
6. IQ and creativity

Obviously P4 schools can weed through the players and find size and speed. Our USYNT have been taking smaller players at younger ages like I said. It’s unknown if it will carry on to U18 and up. This is both girls and boys U17 and younger I am referring to.

How do you know this? Is it documented somewhere? Men only or women as well?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges are moving focus to work rate above all else over the past couple years. Not only that, they are putting work rate over size, speed and IQ. You are not going to see that yet at the older groups but it’s coming.

The problem from what I am seeing is that IQ is now totally pushed down to last.

What USYNT and Colleges are currently looking for:
1. Work Rate
2. Speed
3. Technical Ability
4. Size
5. Endurance
6. IQ and creativity

Obviously P4 schools can weed through the players and find size and speed. Our USYNT have been taking smaller players at younger ages like I said. It’s unknown if it will carry on to U18 and up. This is both girls and boys U17 and younger I am referring to.

Not.

I have a college freshman (son) and junior in high school. It’s still size.

Work rate has always been a huge focus for college coaches. Has been for 20+ years.

In coach logic, “there are many things we can fix, tweak and work on over the offseason. But effort and grit we can’t afford to teach at the collegiate level.”

Work rate is a proxy for effort and grit. Work rate also is a proxy for soccer iq, speed, and endurance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges are moving focus to work rate above all else over the past couple years. Not only that, they are putting work rate over size, speed and IQ. You are not going to see that yet at the older groups but it’s coming.

The problem from what I am seeing is that IQ is now totally pushed down to last.

What USYNT and Colleges are currently looking for:
1. Work Rate
2. Speed
3. Technical Ability
4. Size
5. Endurance
6. IQ and creativity

Obviously P4 schools can weed through the players and find size and speed. Our USYNT have been taking smaller players at younger ages like I said. It’s unknown if it will carry on to U18 and up. This is both girls and boys U17 and younger I am referring to.

Not.

I have a college freshman (son) and junior in high school. It’s still size.

“Not.

I have a Labrador and a gold fish! It’s still size”

Anonymous wrote:Colleges are moving focus to work rate above all else over the past couple years. Not only that, they are putting work rate over size, speed and IQ. You are not going to see that yet at the older groups but it’s coming.

The problem from what I am seeing is that IQ is now totally pushed down to last.

What USYNT and Colleges are currently looking for:
1. Work Rate
2. Speed
3. Technical Ability
4. Size
5. Endurance
6. IQ and creativity

Obviously P4 schools can weed through the players and find size and speed. Our USYNT have been taking smaller players at younger ages like I said. It’s unknown if it will carry on to U18 and up. This is both girls and boys U17 and younger I am referring to.

Not.

I have a college freshman (son) and junior in high school. It’s still size.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Freddy knows because he was on the other end of the spectrum originally. Freddy was an early bloomer who stopped growing once entering MLS. Him pointing this out gives it even more credence because he knows damn well that he was given chances because he hit puberty early. Also, keep in mind, that in their late teens to early 20's...Freddy had a hire FIFA ranking than Messi. #fact

Early bloomer? Freddy Adu was 17-18 years old playing against 13-14 year olds. Lied about his age and karma caught up with him.

YeSsss!!!! This was a big story back then.

There’s a kid in Alexandria with a similar story

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Freddy knows because he was on the other end of the spectrum originally. Freddy was an early bloomer who stopped growing once entering MLS. Him pointing this out gives it even more credence because he knows damn well that he was given chances because he hit puberty early. Also, keep in mind, that in their late teens to early 20's...Freddy had a hire FIFA ranking than Messi. #fact

Early bloomer? Freddy Adu was 17-18 years old playing against 13-14 year olds. Lied about his age and karma caught up with him.

YeSsss!!!! This was a big story back then.

Anonymous wrote:Freddy knows because he was on the other end of the spectrum originally. Freddy was an early bloomer who stopped growing once entering MLS. Him pointing this out gives it even more credence because he knows damn well that he was given chances because he hit puberty early. Also, keep in mind, that in their late teens to early 20's...Freddy had a hire FIFA ranking than Messi. #fact

Those of us around at that time know Freddy was older than what was put on his papers. Once everyone else matured his physical age advantage was no longer a thing.

It was a running joke in the dmv for quite some time—well known he was older. I’ve seen it with other immigrants without proper papers on arrival—they assign an age

Anonymous wrote:I really do not know why people think soccer is for small players. Sure there are some but most professional soccer player in the big 5 leagues are average to above average in terms of height. 75-85% of the roster is 5’10” or taller. If you are a smaller player 5’9” and below you have to be very quick and fast for a professional.

People are missing what Adu is saying. He is not
talking about size. He is talking about technical skills. The US system would not know what to do with Messi because he is a very technical player with a very high speed of play(and he was incredibly fast and quick).

Maximizing that type of player requires other technically skilled players and a system that is centered around speed of play. You have to have other technical players to push you. That is not the US system. The selection and training of players is different.

This is half right. The US would know exactly what to do with Messi, but it couldn’t achieve it yet, and would meet another round of rebuilding.

That said, the old “US soccer is just a bunch of linebackers and wide receivers that were talent-ID pushed into soccer” trope is outdated. There is a ton of room to get better, but the current national team is one of the technically test teams the US has fielded. It’s 16th in the world. That wasn’t achieve via “boom ball.”

We’re getting there! Just not yet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really do not know why people think soccer is for small players. Sure there are some but most professional soccer player in the big 5 leagues are average to above average in terms of height. 75-85% of the roster is 5’10” or taller. If you are a smaller player 5’9” and below you have to be very quick and fast for a professional.

People are missing what Adu is saying. He is not
talking about size. He is talking about technical skills. The US system would not know what to do with Messi because he is a very technical player with a very high speed of play(and he was incredibly fast and quick).

Maximizing that type of player requires other technically skilled players and a system that is centered around speed of play. You have to have other technical players to push you. That is not the US system. The selection and training of players is different.

100%. This is what kills me about this board. It's one thing to gripe about the technical aspects and pace of the game and this being where US is behind and lacking, but this obsession with players' heights/size here in US soccer seems to be a bit much, and definitely misses the mark. I saw a graphic, not sure how old, of the average heights of premier league teams and it ranged from about 5'10" to about 6'1". Even where defenders skew these numbers, soccer is not a sport for short people on average. So, the obsession with youth soccer in the US only caring about height/size just falls flat. I am also wondering, since everyone seems to know what the problem is with youth soccer, what is anyone here on this board trying to do, apart from complain about everything wrong, to help get on the path to changing it?

People really don’t understand statistics.

Average height of 5’10” to 6’1” on a 17 man roster leaves plenty of room for players below average.

Unless there is a 5’1” player on each squad and everyone else is 6’.

I’m not advocating short / tall or whatever. Just advocating math.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe but in a country that prioritizes other sports over soccer, he may have never played soccer in the first place.

I have always thought this debate was a poor one. Top athletes play football, basketball, and baseball before soccer.

If the top 100 players alone in either football or basketball grew up playing soccer instead, we would have a dynasty. Imagine Lebron James in goal and Tyreek Hill as an attacking CM. Oh hell…NFL edition is soccer was top sport in US.

GK - AJ Brown
CB - Micah Parsons
CB- Travis Kelce
LB - Christian Mcaffrey
RB - Antoine Winfield Jr
HCM - Lamar Jackson or Mahomes
ACM - Tyreek Hill
LW - Ceedee Lamb
RW - Deebo Samual
ST - Justin Jefferson
ST - Devante Adams

Stop, just stop. You are everything that is wrong with American soccer...thinking that 6'6" 260 lbs guys are going to dominate against Messi, di Maria and others is just embarrassing yourself.

Tell me you know nothing about the NFL without telling me.


They all aren’t 6’6”. I think Kelce is the only one that is that tall. Everyone else is 6’2 or less except Mahomes. I picked these on purpose for that very reason alone genius.

Who is the one of the most respected CBs in the game?

Van Dyk. 6’5” to Kelce 6’6. Kelce would win every time in a foot race and in physically.

Ronaldo 6’2 to Jefferson at 6’1”.

Just some examples.

If these NFL players would have played soccer from a young age, we would be dominant just like in Basketball. It’s not rocket science.

You, sir, are an idiot.

Chickens for KFC! Yeah, Justin Jefferson is not as athletic or as smart as Ronaldo and Tyreek Hill or Christian Mcaffrey are too dumb to be similar to Messi. If either of those two would have played soccer instead of American football, it would have been game over.

Are you going to argue Matt Turner would have been a better Wide Receiver than AJ Brown? Or Pulisic would have been a Hall of Fame Cornerback? Tyler Adams a Hall of Fame QB? I think Messi could have been a Darren Sproles type RB. Ronaldo probably a Safety. But we literally have hundreds of these types playing football and basketball and none playing soccer. Hell I don’t think Pepe is even athletic enough to play D1 college football.

Only trained soccer players are good at soccer.

Maybe we should have some of the US Men's soccer team start playing basketball so we can beat South Sudan by more than a point