Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our team doesn't send around a ladder. I do think that would be helpful. But I kind of get why they don't.. we have some competitive parents.

We don’t send out the ladder and not all meet entries are based on the ladder.

If a kid has a good time but never shows up for practice, and I’m not talking about kid who swim club, we won’t put them in.

There are also times when the ladder can be wrong like a kid who gets a good time at a B meet, but should have had a DQ/isn’t really legal in a stroke.

Coaches also take 25 m splits for kids who swim 50s and use those to pick the relays.

I don’t know if you’re trolling, but this seems a recipe for discontent. Swimming is a timed sport, the times are what they are, I don’t know why you would voluntarily introduce these subjective variables unless you just thrive on drama. And like the PPs said, kids who should have been DQ in breast or fly are generally slower because they can’t do the stroke right and aren’t competing for A meet slots in those events.

A scissor kick in breaststroke is generally faster than the correct kick in a developing swimmer, so I’m guessing that’s it.

Different poster, but I saw someone knock off a huge chunk of time in breastroke at a B meet doing flutter kicks. Judges didn't raise their hand. They made it to the A meet, swam it legal and didn't come within seconds of that time.

Anonymous wrote:There was a child on the other team at our last A meet who did this very fast butterfly where she didn’t surface to do the arms except for a few times. She didn’t end up DQing which surprised me!

There are a number of scenarios where this isn't a DQ. She could have maintained an underwater streamlined position using only a dolphin kick for propulsion for the first 15 meters in either direction. That covers 60 percent of the race distance. An advanced swimmer would only need a few arms strokes to cover the remaining 10 meters in each direction. Alternatively some novice swimmers who aren't strong enough to keep their arms simultaneous and above the water at a high tempo will mix in just a few intermittent but simultaneous arm strokes throughout the race while relying primarily on their kick for propulsion. In this case, underwater arms are ok as long as they aren't pulling without recovering over the surface simultaneously. You'll see kids holding their arms forward while kicking for a while and then taking a legal arm stroke before resuming kicking with the arms forward again. It's not always pretty but it can be legal.

Anonymous wrote:There was a child on the other team at our last A meet who did this very fast butterfly where she didn’t surface to do the arms except for a few times. She didn’t end up DQing which surprised me!

What do you mean, like she kept her arms under the water for all but a few strokes or she only took a few breaths? You don’t have to breathe on every stroke for fly, the fastest flyers take the fewest breaths. I otherwise don’t understand how you could do a fast fly if your arms are submerged most of the time, and that’s also a super easy DQ to spot.

There was a child on the other team at our last A meet who did this very fast butterfly where she didn’t surface to do the arms except for a few times. She didn’t end up DQing which surprised me!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents ruin everything. There is a parent who is literally counting points in a bid to get a plastic high point trophy for their kid. The kid doesn’t get to hang out with the team, parents don’t cheer for anyone and I’ve observed the kid crying on several occasions.

Summer swim is for hanging out with friends, doing silly cheers and eating the most disgusting candy they can possibly buy from concessions.

Don’t have a high point trophy if you don’t want people to care about getting it. It’s a big accomplishment for a kid.

Yes, for the kid. Not the parent.

Anonymous wrote:13:05 PP. I haven't seen a ladder, but I think that could be helpful at least to get a sense of where things stand and likelihood if qualifying for events. We usually find out late on Wednesday (so 48ish hours after Monday B meets) if kids are swimming on Saturday, and not until Friday what they're swimming (which is less of an issue if we know we're committed for Saturday anyway). Communication about the relays has been really confusing, not at all direct but more assumed that we would know what's going on.

I get that there are (a lot!) of variables and that things change, but having a sense of what might be on the horizon would be helpful from a scheduling perspective.

In our league, there's aren't A/B meets...everyone goes to the same meet on Saturdays. Maybe find a league like that.

Anonymous wrote:Parents ruin everything. There is a parent who is literally counting points in a bid to get a plastic high point trophy for their kid. The kid doesn’t get to hang out with the team, parents don’t cheer for anyone and I’ve observed the kid crying on several occasions.

Summer swim is for hanging out with friends, doing silly cheers and eating the most disgusting candy they can possibly buy from concessions.

Don’t have a high point trophy if you don’t want people to care about getting it. It’s a big accomplishment for a kid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our team doesn't send around a ladder. I do think that would be helpful. But I kind of get why they don't.. we have some competitive parents.

We don’t send out the ladder and not all meet entries are based on the ladder.

If a kid has a good time but never shows up for practice, and I’m not talking about kid who swim club, we won’t put them in.

There are also times when the ladder can be wrong like a kid who gets a good time at a B meet, but should have had a DQ/isn’t really legal in a stroke.

Coaches also take 25 m splits for kids who swim 50s and use those to pick the relays.

I don’t know if you’re trolling, but this seems a recipe for discontent. Swimming is a timed sport, the times are what they are, I don’t know why you would voluntarily introduce these subjective variables unless you just thrive on drama. And like the PPs said, kids who should have been DQ in breast or fly are generally slower because they can’t do the stroke right and aren’t competing for A meet slots in those events.

A scissor kick in breaststroke is generally faster than the correct kick in a developing swimmer, so I’m guessing that’s it.

13:05 PP. I haven't seen a ladder, but I think that could be helpful at least to get a sense of where things stand and likelihood if qualifying for events. We usually find out late on Wednesday (so 48ish hours after Monday B meets) if kids are swimming on Saturday, and not until Friday what they're swimming (which is less of an issue if we know we're committed for Saturday anyway). Communication about the relays has been really confusing, not at all direct but more assumed that we would know what's going on.

I get that there are (a lot!) of variables and that things change, but having a sense of what might be on the horizon would be helpful from a scheduling perspective.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not drama, but I think the communication could be a little better/more proactive so as to set expectations around who's swimming what. At this point in the season with there being lots of kids with good times across the strokes, some people on vacation, etc., it's not as straightforward as just looking at the times to figure out if your kid is swimming on Saturday or in the relays, etc. like it is in the first half of the season. It has been hard to plan for and feels like we're making lots of logistical/schedule adjustments on the fly (including at work) with a day or two's notice.

I understand that many of these details are being worked out on a meet-by-meet basis, but wish they'd think about ways to communicate early and often to help families plan (especially those of us who are newer to this).

I'm not sure I understand. We get our A-meet line up from the coach the day after B-meet results are in. Parents with kids on the bubble wait for this email to know if they'll be at the A-meet that week. It's not a ton of notice, but is what it is.

I'm sure parents of kids who are top 3 can generally predict that they'll be at the A-meet, but still have to wait to hear about relays, as those can get shuffled with vacations and kids dropping time.

What communication do you expect beyond the A-meet line up being sent out on time?

(Not a PP or OP) Our team is very transparent with the ladder, and we receive an updated version after every A and B meet. This way, we know where are child may fall and whether the child is bubble or in the A meet. Last week, we had a LOT of A meet swimmers out, and we dug deep into the ladder. Our team reps notified us every day that swimmers who have lot typically swum in A meets may be doing so that weekend. Communication and transparency remove most of the issues rendered above.

We get our A-meet line up the day after the B meet, so the ladder isn't particularly helpful. Isn't it better just to know for sure if you're swimming in the A-meet? I don't want to be looking at a ladder and guessing when I can just get the line up.

I also don't think it's that surprising that many travel over a holiday weekend. Wasn't that predictable?

No, we didn’t have A Meet swimmers miss meets last year. We are in D1. We’ve had illness sweeping through the swimmers. And when you have a load of club swimmers on the team, it is unusual to go as far as we needed to go down the ladder because of illness. But, that said, everyone knew who would be next because we see the ladder after every single meet.

This sounds pretty nuts. I'm definitely not tracking the health and whereabouts of a dozen+ kids to see if my kid is likely to be next up for the A-meet.

On our team it also wouldn't be linear that the next kid up would definitely get to swim if the person above them was sick, as the coach may swap another faster swimmer back to that stroke and move up a swimmer in a different stroke. I have better things to do than try to predict what the coach will do with so many moving parts.

Really, I just wait and see what the line up is when it's announced.

Aren’t results from both A and B meets sent to members/posted to an app? I can understand not sending the ladder when everyone can see all the times for themselves.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our team doesn't send around a ladder. I do think that would be helpful. But I kind of get why they don't.. we have some competitive parents.

We don’t send out the ladder and not all meet entries are based on the ladder.

If a kid has a good time but never shows up for practice, and I’m not talking about kid who swim club, we won’t put them in.

There are also times when the ladder can be wrong like a kid who gets a good time at a B meet, but should have had a DQ/isn’t really legal in a stroke.

Coaches also take 25 m splits for kids who swim 50s and use those to pick the relays.

I don’t know if you’re trolling, but this seems a recipe for discontent. Swimming is a timed sport, the times are what they are, I don’t know why you would voluntarily introduce these subjective variables unless you just thrive on drama. And like the PPs said, kids who should have been DQ in breast or fly are generally slower because they can’t do the stroke right and aren’t competing for A meet slots in those events.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our team doesn't send around a ladder. I do think that would be helpful. But I kind of get why they don't.. we have some competitive parents.

We don’t send out the ladder and not all meet entries are based on the ladder.

If a kid has a good time but never shows up for practice, and I’m not talking about kid who swim club, we won’t put them in.

There are also times when the ladder can be wrong like a kid who gets a good time at a B meet, but should have had a DQ/isn’t really legal in a stroke.

Coaches also take 25 m splits for kids who swim 50s and use those to pick the relays.

So Johnny swam freestyle to get a fast time in breaststroke and no one noticed? Yeah, right. Most of the time the kids who aren't legal in a stroke are really slow simply because they haven't mastered the proper technique. They aren't sniffing the top of the ladder except maybe on a team struggling to fill lanes.

+1. Agree 100%. Kids who are likely to DQ in B meets are for breastroke or fly because their strokes are not quite right. These kids are not competing for a spot in the A meets.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our team doesn't send around a ladder. I do think that would be helpful. But I kind of get why they don't.. we have some competitive parents.

We don’t send out the ladder and not all meet entries are based on the ladder.

If a kid has a good time but never shows up for practice, and I’m not talking about kid who swim club, we won’t put them in.

There are also times when the ladder can be wrong like a kid who gets a good time at a B meet, but should have had a DQ/isn’t really legal in a stroke.

Coaches also take 25 m splits for kids who swim 50s and use those to pick the relays.

So Johnny swam freestyle to get a fast time in breaststroke and no one noticed? Yeah, right. Most of the time the kids who aren't legal in a stroke are really slow simply because they haven't mastered the proper technique. They aren't sniffing the top of the ladder except maybe on a team struggling to fill lanes.

Anonymous wrote:Our team doesn't send around a ladder. I do think that would be helpful. But I kind of get why they don't.. we have some competitive parents.

We don’t send out the ladder and not all meet entries are based on the ladder.

If a kid has a good time but never shows up for practice, and I’m not talking about kid who swim club, we won’t put them in.

There are also times when the ladder can be wrong like a kid who gets a good time at a B meet, but should have had a DQ/isn’t really legal in a stroke.

Coaches also take 25 m splits for kids who swim 50s and use those to pick the relays.