Op I'm sorry, we have a similar kid and it's really hard.

What has worked for us is medication, and family therapy. Individual therapy wasn't doing what we needed it to, so we added family therapy with a different provider, and it has really helped. There's an aspect of accountability in family therapy that we weren't getting from individual therapy. We also started the family therapy as an intensive effort to get out of crisis mode and were doing it 3x/week. We're now down to once or twice a month.

My child was also diagnosed as ASD/Bipolar at 11 - so there is a real effort to address mood with their meds. Currently, they take an anti-depressant, and a mood stabilizer (latuda, low dose).

We've really put in a ton of work, and it took a few years, but now at 15 my child is doing MUCH better. We no longer have incidents like the one you describe - although we used to. I hope you can find a treatment plan that works. It's so hard.

I think the problem with other delays is that the intellect is not there and so it's natural to understand that every conversation is like talking to a 3 year old. The problem with ASD is that it vacillates from 3 to 50 and everything in between. I think when anxiety is at play it helps to treat the person like a 3 year old.

Ross Greene is also about how to repair the harm. Not just next time. Helping take out the garbage and helping clean up are examples.

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Anonymous wrote:How long did it take him to clean up the trash?

OP here. You know he didn’t.

Seriously?! Mine would’ve been cleaning all night and steam cleaning again today.

You don’t have this kind of kid then. Not OP here.

How are you making kid clean the trash? Would you take away cellphone/electronics? Kid doesn’t care. Threaten to cancel vacation? Kid doesn’t care. And I mean they will fully lay on the bed or sit & stare at the wall for days rather than do whatever you are forcing, while the garbage rots & stains your furniture & rugs.

This is what OP is dealing with.

If it’s really this bad then you might want to try a residential facility for stabilization and to assess/address motivation and compliance. That environment would be equipped to effectively handle this type of behavior.

Newsflash. Residential won't take kids like this, unless this is happening 24/7. If it's once a week? No way you get approved for residential.
Believe me, we've tried.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How long did it take him to clean up the trash?

OP here. You know he didn’t.

Seriously?! Mine would’ve been cleaning all night and steam cleaning again today.

You don’t have this kind of kid then. Not OP here.

How are you making kid clean the trash? Would you take away cellphone/electronics? Kid doesn’t care. Threaten to cancel vacation? Kid doesn’t care. And I mean they will fully lay on the bed or sit & stare at the wall for days rather than do whatever you are forcing, while the garbage rots & stains your furniture & rugs.

This is what OP is dealing with.

Yet another NP here. THis is us exactly. Big tantrums. No consequences help. Not giving in doesn't reduce future tantrums. SHe's on enough meds to tranquilize a horse.

Anonymous wrote:I feel for you, OP. Dealing with a similar kid. Escalations like this are rare but when they do happen they are scary and overwhelming.

The best strategy is for me to stay as calm as possible and suppress my own rage and heartbreak at the situation but a big part of me panics about the damage being done to the house and the futility of trying to "have nice things."

It feels there is no gratitude or acknowledgement for the 6,439 things I do in a day for this child, no reciprocity, no awareness of the impact on me and the family. In calm, regulated moments there are thank yous but the demands never cease.

+1 OP, our kid is younger but we had a very rough night last night with escalations and aggression in response to a very simple ask. My DH was crying and said he feels like our child is totally lost to him, which breaks my heart. There's a glimmer of hope that it will get better as with age and maturity there's some reflection and remorse after it's over, but in the moment it is almost impossible to handle. Just know you're not alone.

I feel for you, OP. Dealing with a similar kid. Escalations like this are rare but when they do happen they are scary and overwhelming.

The best strategy is for me to stay as calm as possible and suppress my own rage and heartbreak at the situation but a big part of me panics about the damage being done to the house and the futility of trying to "have nice things."

It feels there is no gratitude or acknowledgement for the 6,439 things I do in a day for this child, no reciprocity, no awareness of the impact on me and the family. In calm, regulated moments there are thank yous but the demands never cease.

Anonymous wrote:I think depending on the kid trying to make him clean it would be pointless. Depending on the skills of the kid I would either clean it myself or do as pp said and have him help if calm. Is he able to process and reflect when calm? If yes I think the consequences would be steered towards (with his input in a Ross Greene interview style approach) no chick fil A for 1 week (or whatever makes sense) and/or helping take out the trash for a time. If he really can’t process just keep moving forward as best you can.

Ross Greene conversations are about identifying a child's difficulties and concerns with an expectation, not about consequences/punishment.

A conversation about how to approach having guests in the future could be a Ross Greene conversation, but it's not about behavior.

I think depending on the kid trying to make him clean it would be pointless. Depending on the skills of the kid I would either clean it myself or do as pp said and have him help if calm. Is he able to process and reflect when calm? If yes I think the consequences would be steered towards (with his input in a Ross Greene interview style approach) no chick fil A for 1 week (or whatever makes sense) and/or helping take out the trash for a time. If he really can’t process just keep moving forward as best you can.

Anonymous wrote:That sounds absolutely awful. I’m so sorry.

How did he not get arrested for fake 911 call?

He got a warning.

That sounds absolutely awful. I’m so sorry.

How did he not get arrested for fake 911 call?

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Anonymous wrote:We were there - Ross Greene changed our lives. If consequences worked for these kids, it would be so much easier, but for some kids (including mine) they don’t. We are in a much much better place and avoided residential. It was scary to take such a different approach (we let it all go for awhile) but he is so so much better now. Also check out the Asberger expert guy. This is all so hard.

I don't know what or who Ross Greene is. Can you give an explanation if you were in OP situation what you would have done? Gotten chick-fil-a to prevent retaliation? Ignore the behavior and just clean up the trash?

Ross Greene's idea is that kids do well when they can. So if they can't meet an expectation, there's a reason, and we have to look past the behavior to figure out why.

So in the OP's situation, did she know that kid has a hard time when guests are coming over? One solution would be to get chick fila before it escalated. Another possibility would be not to have guests over or to send kid somewhere else or ... There are many options and we don't know what meets both of their concerns.

Once the trash is on the floor, the question is whether asking him to help clean will cause further difficulty.

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Anonymous wrote:How long did it take him to clean up the trash?

OP here. You know he didn’t.

Seriously?! Mine would’ve been cleaning all night and steam cleaning again today.

NP. So you don't have a vindictive ASD DC. Just unhelpful criticism.

I get told no, I spread garbage on the floor, I do fun things while mom cleans it up. Watching mom get upset and clean garbage is fun. Next time she’ll probably get me what I want, if she doesn’t I’ll make a bigger mess.

I get told no, I spread garbage on the floor, I spend all night and day cleaning and don’t get to do fun things. Cleaning garbage is smelly and not fun, Next time I won’t spread garbage.

Mmmm hmmm. And are you going to beat the kid when they don't do it? Put a gun to their head as they clean? Because some kids still wouldn't clean up the garbage. I think you don't know what you are talking about here.

I know that a child with absolutely zero rate compliance and zero effective reinforcers is incredibly rare. If true, then I’d make them throw away one piece and clean the rest myself. Then I’d start with a complete analysis of the environment and conduct multiple preference and reinforcer assessments, starting with everything from the Chick-fil-A menu. Then I’d start basic compliance training.

NP and BTDT parent here. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Emptying garbage on the floor wasn’t my kid’s MO. But the stuff he did and the rapid escalation to violence and dangerous behavior was real. There was no cleaning up happening. We were lucky when we didn’t have to call the police to cart him out.

OP, for mine, we called the police when stuff like that happened which resulted in a lot of inpatient hospitalization and residential treatment. But that’s only available if you have good insurance and significant savings to fund it. There’s also the juvenile justice system that can help.

Anonymous wrote:We were there - Ross Greene changed our lives. If consequences worked for these kids, it would be so much easier, but for some kids (including mine) they don’t. We are in a much much better place and avoided residential. It was scary to take such a different approach (we let it all go for awhile) but he is so so much better now. Also check out the Asberger expert guy. This is all so hard.

I don't know what or who Ross Greene is. Can you give an explanation if you were in OP situation what you would have done? Gotten chick-fil-a to prevent retaliation? Ignore the behavior and just clean up the trash?

We were there - Ross Greene changed our lives. If consequences worked for these kids, it would be so much easier, but for some kids (including mine) they don’t. We are in a much much better place and avoided residential. It was scary to take such a different approach (we let it all go for awhile) but he is so so much better now. Also check out the Asberger expert guy. This is all so hard.