Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counselor doesn't care about student's poor grades or college prospects. They just want student to complete all four years without mental health incident, even it means all Cs and ending up at community college.

Are you suggesting they are wrong?

If going back to the base school to get good grades and go to VT is an option, how are they not wrong?

Hi OP. I’m a two time TJ parent. I would say that you should think hard about whether to transfer. As and Bs are fine, multiple Cs are an indicator that there’s an issue with studying. Especially in Bio. That said, if your kid is much better off in the TJ environment than base school (I have one of these) then you could consider staying and just set sights for college lower. Strongly recommend getting a Math tutor familiar with TJ curriculum if they stay. It’s a hard choice. I’m sorry your kid is facing this. What do they want to do? I wish you both good luck moving forward. There are plenty of paths to a successful and happy life! Plenty of kids leave TJ and are very happy having done so.

Please stop with the Math 4 email from almost 3 years ago that was primarily addressed to kids in this year’s graduating class admitted under the old system. They were getting back to school from covid and were not at there best. Also, the TJ math department never looks inward when students do poorly. It’s ALWAYS the kids fault. They have been pushing this crap long before admissions change.

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Anonymous wrote:And a transfer now will be seen as a step back in rigor, so higher grades onward would also be tinged.

Not true. If you do well in base schools you have a good shot at good schools. Getting into top college from TJ is not easy. Many get to Ivies easily from base schools but not from TJ

OP's kid is not getting into a top school with these grades--doesn't matter if they transfer or not. Unless they are an athlete plus another hook.

This. You all are in denial. He could get all As from now on but unless it’s Emory and he is in very hard classes, he won’t be in the top anywhere. Do you all really believe the base school kids are drooling in a corner?

See previous point.

OP's kid most likely would do very well in base HS. Should be getting all A's in 10th and 11th.

That would make the child at par with anyone else at base HS for those two grade levels. We dont know anything about the OP's kid and they might have a lot of other things going. I dont see any issue with getting into a very good college.

Other than Emory, every college will look at the grades 9-11 when applying for admission.

You have no idea if the student will do well in the base high school. This is the TJ mindset you are not getting. You are assuming that TJ was hard and he didn't do well, but base school will be easy and he will do well. Other than the fact that he is coming from TJ, what are you basing your comments that he will "most likely" do well at the base HS and "should" be getting all As there? Did she tell us anything about him, his intellect, his capabilities, his strengths, etc. that would make you say that?

If he gets all As in 10th and 11th, he is then competing at his HS against kids who also got high grades in 10 and 11, but those kids also likely got all As in 9th. As for your bolded sentence above, in this college application environment, I completely disagree. Every year and grade matters except for Emory. That's it.

I am basing it on my personal experience of another highly regarded HS where we had experience. Getting an A is not something to even bother thinking about at this HS. My child's close friend is still at that HS, they compare the load levels and laugh/cry about it. Any academically inclined student or even with a parent remotely interested in studies and without a whole lot of sports can and without much effort get an A in pretty much all subjects. A C at TJ would require some effort - to my surprise after looking at the scoring rubric for a few of the classes. This effort is a bit more than what is needed for an A at base HS.

If you actually look at TJ courses and how the teachers score and what they expect and compare them to what base HS expects, the difference is immense.

Our 2nd child would not be applying for TJ even though our 1st child's experience at TJ was fantastic. I am not dissing base HS. The academics at TJ are at a whole different level - first year undergraduate is pretty much covered if you take the most rigorous level possible at TJ. I dont see why we need to do that if someone is not so inclined. It is good for kids who are very good academically and many of their EC's and interests are academic as well which makes TJ not a burden.

My 2nd child has a lot of non-academic interests and TJ would not be a good fit. Base HS it is. So not putting down base HS at all.

So you extrapolated that to apply to all HSs? It is definitely not true at many.

Again, if 30-40% of juniors have a 4.4 or above, TJ isn’t stingy with grading.

This kids isn't getting as 4.4.
By definition they were getting mostly A's and A-'s in 8th grade.
They are likely to be getting those sort of grades at their pyramid high school.

Also I don't think last year's juniors had a 4.4 average GPA.
I think last year's seniors might have had that but I think there are a lot of B's and C's in the new cohort.

Here is an email sent to the class of 2025 Freshman Year Math 4.

The teachers wrote:

"These scores are deeply disappointing, and are the lowest scores we’ve ever seen as Math 4 teachers on a Final Exam."

The math teachers noted that the final exam was “substantially easier” than final exams given to previous classes. The teachers said the students had “unprecedented supports provided to you this semester, including extra practice quizzes, bonus quizzes, practice worksheets, and a practice final exam, all things that were not given to previous students.”

The teachers continued:

"We expected to see scores rise, not drop, with our lowering of standards."

As a solution, the teachers said:

"We will curve the exam by 10 percentage points (which means 7.5 points, out of 75), but you should know that this curve is artificial and not deserved."

They also said:

"This indicates to us that you either didn’t study, or you studied poorly. Even worse, the preponderance of evidence indicates that many of you weren’t willing to change how you learned or studied since the start of Math 4."

They finish with:

"We still believe every single one of you belongs at this school and can succeed"

Here is the complete email:

Hi Math 4 Students,

Congratulations on completing the TJ Math 4 course. We want to be transparent with you about the Final Exam. The average score across the board was in the low 70s with a substantial minority scoring below 50%. These scores are deeply disappointing, and are the lowest scores we’ve ever seen as Math 4 teachers on a Final Exam. The test that you took is substantially easier than the Final Exam given to previous students. Most questions were procedural, and very few were word and application questions. Plus, there was already a built in curve of 3 points. This is in the context of unprecedented supports provided to you this semester, including extra practice quizzes, bonus quizzes, practice worksheets, and a practice final exam, all things that were not given to previous students. We expected to see scores rise, not drop, with our lowering of standards.

Furthermore:

Less than 10% of you came to an 8th period tutoring session this year.
More than 75% of you did not submit test corrections, and lost the opportunity for retake points.
Many of you even forgot something as basic as the double angle identity. You just had to memorize it!
Most of you struggled on problems that you yourselves created on the Practice Exam. Given you’ve already seen the problem, frankly, there was no excuse for forgetting how to do these questions.
This indicates to us that you either didn’t study, or you studied poorly. Even worse, the preponderance of evidence indicates that many of you weren’t willing to change how you learned or studied since the start of Math 4. We know that it is a pastime of students (I know because one of us went to TJ, and one of us went to Stuyvesant HS) to blame external factors like teachers, the exam, the pandemic, etc. for this. But this time, it’s on you.

We are not saying that you should spend hours and hours studying. That will not help you. Spending the time better will. If you are putting the work in as the course goes along, and not waiting until the night before the test to try to learn everything, we believe you will be more successful and actually enjoy your math classes more.

Here’s some ways you could have spend your time better:

Reconsider how you used your homework assignments and the posted keys during this course. Did vou check your work carefully with the key?
Did you go back and look at example problems for the problems you do wrong and then do some similar type problems until you felt confident?
Did you ask questions about those problems in class? Did you highlight those problems as ones to review before the test?
Did you use your tests and quizzes as a study resource? Did you make sure you UNDERSTOOD how to solve the problems that you lost points on? Many of you made the same mistakes on the final that you did on your unit assessments. Did you try reworking the problems you got wrong? This is the point of doing corrections – we don’t just encourage you to do these so that we have more things to grade!
How did you use the extra resources posted in Schoology? You had access to videos on every lesson we taught, most of them by a different teacher (who may well say something in a way that clicks for you if you didn’t get it when your teacher explained it.) You had access to EVERY quiz and the cumulative problem sets from our virtual year. These were basically practice tests.
Speaking of practice tests, we took an entire class period for you to write questions for a practice final, and then several hours compiling and formatting those questions. Did you use the practice final and the key? Many of you missed questions on the final that looked amazingly similar to questions on the practice final.
A curve is usually given when teachers mismatch the levels between what students are expected to master, and what students are capable of. For this final exam, it was simply not the case. We will curve the exam by 10 percentage points (which means 7.5 points, out of 75), but you should know that this curve is artificial and not deserved. Your subscores, and therefore second chance eligibility points, will remain the same. If you scored below a 50%, that curve will be applied to your actual score, not from 50%.

Finally, some advice:

Pre-Curve, if you scored below a 60%, we strongly suggest that you retake TJ Math 4. You are not ready to move onto TJ 5. Please speak with your teacher about this.
Pre-Curve, if you scored between 61% to 80%, you will have a difficult time in TJ 5 unless you change the way you study, and chance the way vou learn. You need to submit test corrections for every exam. You need to sign up for every 8th period with your teacher.
Pre-Curve, if you scored above 80%, we are confident that you have the skills to succeed TJ5.
If all you’re taking away from this email is “We’re getting a curve!’ and you immediately start calculating your grade, then you should know that you’re taking the wrong experience from TJ. You will not have a happy 4 years.
We still believe that every single one of you belongs at this school and can succeed. Our disappointment and doubt lies in your attitude towards learning, not your capability to learn. Attitudes can change, and we expect that they will, in your next math class.

❤️,

Your Math 4 Teachers

Anonymous wrote:Counselor doesn't care about student's poor grades or college prospects. They just want student to complete all four years without mental health incident, even it means all Cs and ending up at community college.

Are you suggesting they are wrong?

Counselor doesn't care about student's poor grades or college prospects. They just want student to complete all four years without mental health incident, even it means all Cs and ending up at community college.

OP, what does your DC's counselor recommend? They should guide you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What were the Cs in?

Math and Biology

Which math?

Maybe they started at too high a level, and need to back up or take the slower track with Math 2.5.

What happened in Biology? Didn't learn all the facts? Couldn't do the analysis of documents? Didn't understand the biological processes?

Were these Cs all year, or only one semester?

How did the kid feel all year? Overwhelmed?

https://youtu.be/7J-wCHDJYmo?si=lbDJW04ORVzUvNQp

Anonymous wrote:OP, it's not like your kid is going be a Super Star back at their base school.

Maybe not a super star, but likely not at the bottom of the class.
Better to be at a school where student would be in the upper half, than lower half. Less pressure, more confidence, balanced student life

OP, it's not like your kid is going be a Super Star back at their base school.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And a transfer now will be seen as a step back in rigor, so higher grades onward would also be tinged.

Not true. If you do well in base schools you have a good shot at good schools. Getting into top college from TJ is not easy. Many get to Ivies easily from base schools but not from TJ

OP's kid is not getting into a top school with these grades--doesn't matter if they transfer or not. Unless they are an athlete plus another hook.

This. You all are in denial. He could get all As from now on but unless it’s Emory and he is in very hard classes, he won’t be in the top anywhere. Do you all really believe the base school kids are drooling in a corner?

See previous point.

OP's kid most likely would do very well in base HS. Should be getting all A's in 10th and 11th.

That would make the child at par with anyone else at base HS for those two grade levels. We dont know anything about the OP's kid and they might have a lot of other things going. I dont see any issue with getting into a very good college.

Other than Emory, every college will look at the grades 9-11 when applying for admission.

You have no idea if the student will do well in the base high school. This is the TJ mindset you are not getting. You are assuming that TJ was hard and he didn't do well, but base school will be easy and he will do well. Other than the fact that he is coming from TJ, what are you basing your comments that he will "most likely" do well at the base HS and "should" be getting all As there? Did she tell us anything about him, his intellect, his capabilities, his strengths, etc. that would make you say that?

If he gets all As in 10th and 11th, he is then competing at his HS against kids who also got high grades in 10 and 11, but those kids also likely got all As in 9th. As for your bolded sentence above, in this college application environment, I completely disagree. Every year and grade matters except for Emory. That's it.

I think we can assume they got no Cs in middle school.
They are likely to do better at their base school than at TJ.
You can explain away bad grades your freshman year and still get into a pretty good school. You can't explain away 4 years of Cs.

Explaining away how? Kid did not do well. Kid transfers schools. Nothing makes this kid a top student at a base school filled with kids who have good grades. Someone posted showing TJ’s grade distribution. A 4.4 in 2022 was top 30% I think. That is much higher than our fcps Hs.

Yes, but this kid is not getting a 4.4 at TJ.
They might get a 4.4 at their base school, even with their freshman Cs.
These kids were likely among the top 10-20% at their base schools.

I guess the new admissions policy is not working as some of the kids are struggling. Old is gold

Yeah sure, the new admission policy seems a bit random and seems to select for writing ability which a bit like selecting your basketball team based on batting average.
Perhaps there is some correlation between writing ability and IQ generally? it is certainly the thing that FCPS (and public schools generally) does the least to train up.
BUT, wouldn't they still be bigger fish at their native pond?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And a transfer now will be seen as a step back in rigor, so higher grades onward would also be tinged.

Not true. If you do well in base schools you have a good shot at good schools. Getting into top college from TJ is not easy. Many get to Ivies easily from base schools but not from TJ

OP's kid is not getting into a top school with these grades--doesn't matter if they transfer or not. Unless they are an athlete plus another hook.

This. You all are in denial. He could get all As from now on but unless it’s Emory and he is in very hard classes, he won’t be in the top anywhere. Do you all really believe the base school kids are drooling in a corner?

See previous point.

OP's kid most likely would do very well in base HS. Should be getting all A's in 10th and 11th.

That would make the child at par with anyone else at base HS for those two grade levels. We dont know anything about the OP's kid and they might have a lot of other things going. I dont see any issue with getting into a very good college.

Other than Emory, every college will look at the grades 9-11 when applying for admission.

You have no idea if the student will do well in the base high school. This is the TJ mindset you are not getting. You are assuming that TJ was hard and he didn't do well, but base school will be easy and he will do well. Other than the fact that he is coming from TJ, what are you basing your comments that he will "most likely" do well at the base HS and "should" be getting all As there? Did she tell us anything about him, his intellect, his capabilities, his strengths, etc. that would make you say that?

If he gets all As in 10th and 11th, he is then competing at his HS against kids who also got high grades in 10 and 11, but those kids also likely got all As in 9th. As for your bolded sentence above, in this college application environment, I completely disagree. Every year and grade matters except for Emory. That's it.

I am basing it on my personal experience of another highly regarded HS where we had experience. Getting an A is not something to even bother thinking about at this HS. My child's close friend is still at that HS, they compare the load levels and laugh/cry about it. Any academically inclined student or even with a parent remotely interested in studies and without a whole lot of sports can and without much effort get an A in pretty much all subjects. A C at TJ would require some effort - to my surprise after looking at the scoring rubric for a few of the classes. This effort is a bit more than what is needed for an A at base HS.

If you actually look at TJ courses and how the teachers score and what they expect and compare them to what base HS expects, the difference is immense.

Our 2nd child would not be applying for TJ even though our 1st child's experience at TJ was fantastic. I am not dissing base HS. The academics at TJ are at a whole different level - first year undergraduate is pretty much covered if you take the most rigorous level possible at TJ. I dont see why we need to do that if someone is not so inclined. It is good for kids who are very good academically and many of their EC's and interests are academic as well which makes TJ not a burden.

My 2nd child has a lot of non-academic interests and TJ would not be a good fit. Base HS it is. So not putting down base HS at all.

So you extrapolated that to apply to all HSs? It is definitely not true at many.

Again, if 30-40% of juniors have a 4.4 or above, TJ isn’t stingy with grading.

This kids isn't getting as 4.4.
By definition they were getting mostly A's and A-'s in 8th grade.
They are likely to be getting those sort of grades at their pyramid high school.

Also I don't think last year's juniors had a 4.4 average GPA.
I think last year's seniors might have had that but I think there are a lot of B's and C's in the new cohort.

Here is an email sent to the class of 2025 Freshman Year Math 4.

The teachers wrote:

"These scores are deeply disappointing, and are the lowest scores we’ve ever seen as Math 4 teachers on a Final Exam."

The math teachers noted that the final exam was “substantially easier” than final exams given to previous classes. The teachers said the students had “unprecedented supports provided to you this semester, including extra practice quizzes, bonus quizzes, practice worksheets, and a practice final exam, all things that were not given to previous students.”

The teachers continued:

"We expected to see scores rise, not drop, with our lowering of standards."

As a solution, the teachers said:

"We will curve the exam by 10 percentage points (which means 7.5 points, out of 75), but you should know that this curve is artificial and not deserved."

They also said:

"This indicates to us that you either didn’t study, or you studied poorly. Even worse, the preponderance of evidence indicates that many of you weren’t willing to change how you learned or studied since the start of Math 4."

They finish with:

"We still believe every single one of you belongs at this school and can succeed"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And a transfer now will be seen as a step back in rigor, so higher grades onward would also be tinged.

Not true. If you do well in base schools you have a good shot at good schools. Getting into top college from TJ is not easy. Many get to Ivies easily from base schools but not from TJ

OP's kid is not getting into a top school with these grades--doesn't matter if they transfer or not. Unless they are an athlete plus another hook.

This. You all are in denial. He could get all As from now on but unless it’s Emory and he is in very hard classes, he won’t be in the top anywhere. Do you all really believe the base school kids are drooling in a corner?

See previous point.

OP's kid most likely would do very well in base HS. Should be getting all A's in 10th and 11th.

That would make the child at par with anyone else at base HS for those two grade levels. We dont know anything about the OP's kid and they might have a lot of other things going. I dont see any issue with getting into a very good college.

Other than Emory, every college will look at the grades 9-11 when applying for admission.

You have no idea if the student will do well in the base high school. This is the TJ mindset you are not getting. You are assuming that TJ was hard and he didn't do well, but base school will be easy and he will do well. Other than the fact that he is coming from TJ, what are you basing your comments that he will "most likely" do well at the base HS and "should" be getting all As there? Did she tell us anything about him, his intellect, his capabilities, his strengths, etc. that would make you say that?

If he gets all As in 10th and 11th, he is then competing at his HS against kids who also got high grades in 10 and 11, but those kids also likely got all As in 9th. As for your bolded sentence above, in this college application environment, I completely disagree. Every year and grade matters except for Emory. That's it.

I think we can assume they got no Cs in middle school.
They are likely to do better at their base school than at TJ.
You can explain away bad grades your freshman year and still get into a pretty good school. You can't explain away 4 years of Cs.

Explaining away how? Kid did not do well. Kid transfers schools. Nothing makes this kid a top student at a base school filled with kids who have good grades. Someone posted showing TJ’s grade distribution. A 4.4 in 2022 was top 30% I think. That is much higher than our fcps Hs.

Yes, but this kid is not getting a 4.4 at TJ.
They might get a 4.4 at their base school, even with their freshman Cs.
These kids were likely among the top 10-20% at their base schools.

I guess the new admissions policy is not working as some of the kids are struggling. Old is gold

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And a transfer now will be seen as a step back in rigor, so higher grades onward would also be tinged.

Not true. If you do well in base schools you have a good shot at good schools. Getting into top college from TJ is not easy. Many get to Ivies easily from base schools but not from TJ

OP's kid is not getting into a top school with these grades--doesn't matter if they transfer or not. Unless they are an athlete plus another hook.

This. You all are in denial. He could get all As from now on but unless it’s Emory and he is in very hard classes, he won’t be in the top anywhere. Do you all really believe the base school kids are drooling in a corner?

See previous point.

OP's kid most likely would do very well in base HS. Should be getting all A's in 10th and 11th.

That would make the child at par with anyone else at base HS for those two grade levels. We dont know anything about the OP's kid and they might have a lot of other things going. I dont see any issue with getting into a very good college.

Other than Emory, every college will look at the grades 9-11 when applying for admission.

You have no idea if the student will do well in the base high school. This is the TJ mindset you are not getting. You are assuming that TJ was hard and he didn't do well, but base school will be easy and he will do well. Other than the fact that he is coming from TJ, what are you basing your comments that he will "most likely" do well at the base HS and "should" be getting all As there? Did she tell us anything about him, his intellect, his capabilities, his strengths, etc. that would make you say that?

If he gets all As in 10th and 11th, he is then competing at his HS against kids who also got high grades in 10 and 11, but those kids also likely got all As in 9th. As for your bolded sentence above, in this college application environment, I completely disagree. Every year and grade matters except for Emory. That's it.

I think we can assume they got no Cs in middle school.
They are likely to do better at their base school than at TJ.
You can explain away bad grades your freshman year and still get into a pretty good school. You can't explain away 4 years of Cs.

You ignored everything I wrote about why you are assuming the student should get all As being based on no info other than he is a TJ kid. Grab a mirror.

Because you don't seem to understand that grading is much more difficult at TJ than at any base school in fairfax.
I don't know if they wouldl get all A's but a student that was an A student in 8th grade would probably be at least close to an A student at their pyramid high school.