I was at a party the other day where a divorced woman said she wishes her mother had spoken to her about the importance of picking a good spouse and what a difference that makes in life. I asked her what she’d tell her kid (currently 10 yrs old) and didn’t really get an answer. I’m quite sure this woman - who had an attractive spouse who I think made a lot of money - would find my spouse in satisfactory. Mine is a PhD scientist with a decent income but not the income that doctor / lawyer spouses are making. We both struggle with aspects of mental health and keeping up with the house, but he’s smart, extremely funny (has me laughing hard pretty much daily after 26 years), kind, and loves being a father. I came from a nuclear family with multiple houses and country club memberships where my dad didn’t tell my mom he loved her (though he treated her kindly and with respect) and where my parents didn’t really “believe” in any public displays of affection including holding hands. They were baffled why I was drawn to my spouse and I suspect still are. I don’t assume what I think makes a good partner would match what my kids would think makes a good partner.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A certain % will die, become disabled, have mental illness, have a mid life crisis, become under employed, be terrible parent, unable to manage kids, unable to keep up with house

Most of that is unpredictable .

My spouse checks a few of those boxes (mental illness, underemployed, and unable to keep up with house) and yet I still consider them to be a good spouse. (Great spouse actually!)

Maybe some of you with “bad” spouses have standards that are too high, or perhaps you prioritize the wrong things?

I am often dissatisfied with my spouse but there’s no man that I’ve actually met that I think is better overall, or really even in most things.

I think this speaks to many people being dissatisfied because they expect perfection, as a PP said. Or as I said, just prioritizing the wrong things.

“Oh, you have depression or anxiety or OCD? That makes things difficult or inconvenient for me therefore YOU are a bad spouse.”

“You only make $X but if you really hustled and worked at a job you hate you could be making $Y? Bad spouse!”

“You spent all weekend outside having fun with the kids and making sure they have some great childhood memories, but you didn’t do the laundry? You’re worthless!”

I realize those examples are exaggerated but this is the general tone that so many posts in this board seem to have.

Anonymous wrote:Date intentionally
Don't settle for poor partners

The only "luck" involved is not meeting/falling for a sociopath who does a 180 after you get married. But I think that's actually pretty rare. There are millions of tiny red flags that women especially ignore.

There are always so many posts on here about shitty partners, and one of the first questions I think are "so how was he when you were datin? Engaged? During conflict?". I don't want to sound rude, but many women seem like pick mes and desperate to land any man, to get any ring, to have any children. Even if all of this goes down with a not-great man.

Also to add if you are a woman you have a finite amount of time in your 20s to do this, after that you are out of luck because the looks fade and the good men of marriage age 30-40 are looking for women in their 20s

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A certain % will die, become disabled, have mental illness, have a mid life crisis, become under employed, be terrible parent, unable to manage kids, unable to keep up with house

Most of that is unpredictable .

My spouse checks a few of those boxes (mental illness, underemployed, and unable to keep up with house) and yet I still consider them to be a good spouse. (Great spouse actually!)

Maybe some of you with “bad” spouses have standards that are too high, or perhaps you prioritize the wrong things?

I am often dissatisfied with my spouse but there’s no man that I’ve actually met that I think is better overall, or really even in most things.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The modern conception of a marriage partner is a LOT. We've built up the expectation that this person needs to be

Financially successful / ambitious
But still present around the house
Best friend
Lover
Housekeeper
Near perfect mental health
Always expected to put their hands wants/needs behind yours/household

There aren't going to be many men fitting this bill

Not really. If women can do all of this, so can men.

I met my dh in college (we were seniors) and we both knew. Sometimes you just see yourself reflected in another. I couldn’t have asked for a better husband. Maybe it was luck? Dh and I were always more responsible and knew what we wanted in life. Our peers weren’t the same when we were in our 20s.

DP - I think it's a fair point that we expect marriage to be ALL the things that it has been over decades, but now at the same time. Western marriage grew up as a contract between families, made with an eye toward the material support of multiple generations (elders, adults, and kids) using resources from both sides. Today we want marriage to provide materially for the family, but mostly through the labor of two people - and it should also provide romantic and sexual love, and friendship, and the kinds of child rearing and housekeeping duties that used to be provided by a communal group and/or live-in help. I'm not saying it can't be done - people are doing it - but that's a long shopping list to manage when you are dating in your 20s.

Believe a guy when he shows you (or even tell you!) who he is. Don’t make excuses for him or think you can fix him. Move on!

Yes, there is something behind it. Generally, both spouses are level-headed, drama-free persons. Both are willing to work hard and make compromises. Most importantly, they do not have or have very few narcissistic traits.
All of us have some personal traits that might not be that great, but I think it comes to the fact that neither DH nor I were willing to put up with BS and be with the people whose life choices were vastly different than our values.

Also, I think most of the ok marriages today are between GenXers.

And the last word of advice to women: marry a man who loves and adores you. Not the one you love and adore first. He will go to the end of the world for you. But learn what love bombing is, and don't fall for an evil person. This means having a pretty high emotional IQ.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's some luck to it, but luck does not account for emotional maturity, healthy self esteem and confidence, the wisdom to know what red flags to look out for, discern dysfunction and avoid pitfalls, and lots of hard work.

This. The people who say it's all luck discount everything that is done to build a strong marriage.

+1
I don't believe it's luck at all. I wake up every day and choose to be a good partner, and my DH does the same.

This. We are both not perfect but make sure we try to be the best version of ourselves and give each other what we need in that moment. Sometimes one does more than the other and vice versa. I've seen friends lose a good marriage because they expected perfection....no one is perfect even if it "appears" that way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The modern conception of a marriage partner is a LOT. We've built up the expectation that this person needs to be

Financially successful / ambitious
But still present around the house
Best friend
Lover
Housekeeper
Near perfect mental health
Always expected to put their hands wants/needs behind yours/household

There aren't going to be many men fitting this bill

Not really. If women can do all of this, so can men.

I met my dh in college (we were seniors) and we both knew. Sometimes you just see yourself reflected in another. I couldn’t have asked for a better husband. Maybe it was luck? Dh and I were always more responsible and knew what we wanted in life. Our peers weren’t the same when we were in our 20s.

The luck part is that you keep growing together as opposed to one of you saying at age 50, forget this, I was always more responsible for my age, now I am going to be free.

Anonymous wrote:The modern conception of a marriage partner is a LOT. We've built up the expectation that this person needs to be

Financially successful / ambitious
But still present around the house
Best friend
Lover
Housekeeper
Near perfect mental health
Always expected to put their hands wants/needs behind yours/household

There aren't going to be many men fitting this bill

Not really. If women can do all of this, so can men.

I met my dh in college (we were seniors) and we both knew. Sometimes you just see yourself reflected in another. I couldn’t have asked for a better husband. Maybe it was luck? Dh and I were always more responsible and knew what we wanted in life. Our peers weren’t the same when we were in our 20s.

Mine had lots of green flags at marriage, but 20 years later, had a mid life crisis and wanted out of marriage. Although no one could have predicted the MLC, I feel so darn unlucky to have spent half my life with someone who walked away for another person. But the red flag I overlooked was unresolved family trauma. Ex coped for years, but the MLC and the unresolved trauma caused him to have sad seduction with his AP, where both of them bonded around trauma and then the relationship became physical. So I suppose my biggest mistake was being with someone who had not healed from his past but simply compartmentalized it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I picked a guy who treats me like my dad treats my mom. They’ve been happily married for 50 years. Same with my husband’s parents. We just had good examples.

But how do you attract a guy like this?

What if all you attract are jerks?

It’s actually simple and easy. The moment someone treats you poorly, bid him adieu. Rinse and repeat until you find someone who treats you like you want to be treated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I picked a guy who treats me like my dad treats my mom. They’ve been happily married for 50 years. Same with my husband’s parents. We just had good examples.

But how do you attract a guy like this?

What if all you attract are jerks?

Then don't get married. Seriously, there are worse things out there than not being married, and being married to a jerk is one of those things.

It's takes two to tango.

The modern conception of a marriage partner is a LOT. We've built up the expectation that this person needs to be

Financially successful / ambitious
But still present around the house
Best friend
Lover
Housekeeper
Near perfect mental health
Always expected to put their hands wants/needs behind yours/household

There aren't going to be many men fitting this bill