Anonymous wrote:Mmm. I think that Jesus considered himself Jewish. It’s the later followers, especially Paul, who invented the religion that we call “Christianity.”

Christ was BAPTIZED. Only Christians believe in baptism.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Jesus always considered himself a Jew. But he taught things that conflicted with Judaism (no dietary rules, no respect for Pharisees, hanging out with “unclean” women and the make dregs of society, etc). After Jesus’ death the rift between his followers and traditional Jews widened (you can see this happening in Paul’s letters), and his followers became known as Christians. [/quote]

Correct. He never set out to create a new religion.[/quote]

He was Jewish and was/is the Messiah. Some Jews believed he was the Messiah, but most expected something very different and historically the Jewish people have not acknowledged Jesus as the Messiah. The Jews and Gentiles who believe[d] are Christians.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He didn't start a new religion. He lived. He had followers. He died because he was killed. A long time later, a very long time later, a religion was created called Christianity and he was the brand used. Frankly, this Jesus wouldn't even recognize, join, or even approve of the religion created around him.

+1

I think this is somewhat true. The religion was created by Paul, not it was flourishing in the first century AD, so it’s not quite correct to say the religion was created a long time later. Nero threw “Christians” to the lions in the first century AD, and there were churches all around the Mediterranean like Antioch, Corinth, Thessalonics etc

Jesus told his disciples very clearly that he was creating a new covenant with God to replace the old covenant(s). The new covenant was based on God's mercy and forgiveness and the idea of atonement through the resurrection.

So Jesus did create a "new" religion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean? He was born of Jewish parents. Then he started a new religion. Not that hard to understand.

Not quite. I'd argue that even Jesus did not believe he was creating a new religion. He believed he was correcting fundamental misunderstandings in the one true religion (Judaism).

It was St. Paul who ushered in Christianity by transforming the religion of Jesus into the religion about Jesus.

Perhaps you mean his death and resurrection, and the symbolism contained in those, created a new religion. Yes, Jesus believed he was correcting fundamental misunderstandings in Judaism, but with his death and resurrection, his apostles (including but not limited to Paul) believed they had witnessed a new relationship with God.

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean? He was born of Jewish parents. Then he started a new religion. Not that hard to understand.

Jesus did not "start a new religion". He was Jewish. Those who followed and preached about him bear the credit for "starting a new religion".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Technically , The three wise men/kings were the first Christians because they believed Jesus was the messiah/ the chosen one /the king before he was even born. They were already en route .

Jesus was mythologized before birth.

It’s amazing we even know about His birth.

It’s amazing He created the world’s largest religion; a peasant with no connections or wealth or power.

It’s amazing Kings were bringing a peasant baby gifts.

It’s MOST amazing how much the entire story has in common with stories from other faith traditions that are not related to Christianity.

Most religions have elements that have been adopted, appropriated, transformed, stolen, and co-mingled from the religious and cultural customs that preceded it. Christianity is not unique in this regard.

Christianity is unique in its influence , and transformation of societies around the globe. Part of this is due to its unique ability the survive and propagate in so many different cultures and governance systems.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Technically , The three wise men/kings were the first Christians because they believed Jesus was the messiah/ the chosen one /the king before he was even born. They were already en route .

Jesus was mythologized before birth.

It’s amazing we even know about His birth.

It’s amazing He created the world’s largest religion; a peasant with no connections or wealth or power.

It’s amazing Kings were bringing a peasant baby gifts.

It’s MOST amazing how much the entire story has in common with stories from other faith traditions that are not related to Christianity.

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is that the Early Christians considered themselves Jews, just followers of Jesus. If you read a history of the Christian Religion, it is very interesting. The early centuries of Christianity were vague in their doctrinal framework. In fact, there were many battles over what Christianity was supposed to be until Constantine forced the various Christian sects to come up with a cohesive doctrine.

Correct. I'd even argue that there was a battle of different Christianities. Some were downright mystical (like the gnostics). Others believed that the God of Jesus was different and distinct from the God of the Hebrews (Marcianites). There were other groups that hewed closer to what we view as mainstream today but were later branded heritics (The Arians come to mind). Many of these differences persisted after Constantine and the Council of Nicea (for example, Constantine himself was likely an Arian Christian).

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean? He was born of Jewish parents. Then he started a new religion. Not that hard to understand.

Not quite. I'd argue that even Jesus did not believe he was creating a new religion. He believed he was correcting fundamental misunderstandings in the one true religion (Judaism).

It was St. Paul who ushered in Christianity by transforming the religion of Jesus into the religion about Jesus.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He didn't start a new religion. He lived. He had followers. He died because he was killed. A long time later, a very long time later, a religion was created called Christianity and he was the brand used. Frankly, this Jesus wouldn't even recognize, join, or even approve of the religion created around him.

+1

I think this is somewhat true. The religion was created by Paul, not it was flourishing in the first century AD, so it’s not quite correct to say the religion was created a long time later. Nero threw “Christians” to the lions in the first century AD, and there were churches all around the Mediterranean like Antioch, Corinth, Thessalonics etc

You are backmapping in order to preserve the idea of a Christ. Jesus was Jewish, period.

lo
That’s true. And so was Peter, the first Pope. But the gentiles were soon invited to join by Paul, and within the first century a new religion took shape, and circumcision and the dietary laws were not required anymore. So that probably answers OP’s question

They were the first "reformed" Jews, not Christians. That was much later.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He didn't start a new religion. He lived. He had followers. He died because he was killed. A long time later, a very long time later, a religion was created called Christianity and he was the brand used. Frankly, this Jesus wouldn't even recognize, join, or even approve of the religion created around him.

+1

I think this is somewhat true. The religion was created by Paul, not it was flourishing in the first century AD, so it’s not quite correct to say the religion was created a long time later. Nero threw “Christians” to the lions in the first century AD, and there were churches all around the Mediterranean like Antioch, Corinth, Thessalonics etc

You are backmapping in order to preserve the idea of a Christ. Jesus was Jewish, period.

lo
That’s true. And so was Peter, the first Pope. But the gentiles were soon invited to join by Paul, and within the first century a new religion took shape, and circumcision and the dietary laws were not required anymore. So that probably answers OP’s question

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He didn't start a new religion. He lived. He had followers. He died because he was killed. A long time later, a very long time later, a religion was created called Christianity and he was the brand used. Frankly, this Jesus wouldn't even recognize, join, or even approve of the religion created around him.

+1

I think this is somewhat true. The religion was created by Paul, not it was flourishing in the first century AD, so it’s not quite correct to say the religion was created a long time later. Nero threw “Christians” to the lions in the first century AD, and there were churches all around the Mediterranean like Antioch, Corinth, Thessalonics etc

You are backmapping in order to preserve the idea of a Christ. Jesus was Jewish, period.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is that Jesus was Jewish but also the founder of Christianity. How did that happen?

I’m not interested in debating what is true. I just want to know the story of how it is supposed to have happened, whether you believe it or not.

You are confusing Judaism as religion and Jewish people as ethnicity.

Actually he's confusing Judaism and Jewish people with Hebrew Tribes and people living in Palestine. The Jewish Religion and Judaism as we know it today had virtually nothing to do with what was practiced in Jesus' time.

My understanding is that the Early Christians considered themselves Jews, just followers of Jesus. If you read a history of the Christian Religion, it is very interesting. The early centuries of Christianity were vague in their doctrinal framework. In fact, there were many battles over what Christianity was supposed to be until Constantine forced the various Christian sects to come up with a cohesive doctrine.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He didn't start a new religion. He lived. He had followers. He died because he was killed. A long time later, a very long time later, a religion was created called Christianity and he was the brand used. Frankly, this Jesus wouldn't even recognize, join, or even approve of the religion created around him.

+1

I think this is somewhat true. The religion was created by Paul, not it was flourishing in the first century AD, so it’s not quite correct to say the religion was created a long time later. Nero threw “Christians” to the lions in the first century AD, and there were churches all around the Mediterranean like Antioch, Corinth, Thessalonics etc