Anonymous
05/27/2024 15:11
Subject: How can precalc be an AP class?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Not all states have 4 years obligatory math in high school. For example California only has 2 years mandatory, which is why precalculus could be a university class.
But wouldn't it be considered remedial? There are college English classes that cover the absolute basics of grammar and composition, and they're zero-level classes, whereas "Introductory Composition" is 101
All the scoffing is a little ridiculous, elitist and parochial, all at once. The educational requirements are varied across the 50 states not everything is the same as in your neck of the woods.
It would not be remedial, but if course it will not count as a requirement for science and engineering majors. It will count for some other majors like humanities, and frankly you don’t need to take calculus for comparative literature or marketing.
If UC Berkeley has a precalculus course and gives credit to it, it’s good enough as an AP from some random high school. It’s up there with all lower division courses like calculus, multi, Lin alg, etc.
https://math.berkeley.edu/courses/overview/lowerdivcourses/math32
Another benefit is in an age of grade inflation and lax standards there some attempt at an independent evaluation, which I welcome.
But the AP precalc exam is watered down. It only tests on the first three units of AP Precalc, which is roughly 2/3 Algebra 2 content. The exam does not cover the more challenging aspects of precalc.
Check the Berkeley precalculus, it’s the same as what’s on the AP exam.
College Board doesn’t have to do the most challenging course or the most in depth, probably there are honors precalculus classes that are better.
The student should choose whatever makes the most sense to them.
Berkeley's course appears to cover even less content than the watered down AP Precalc exam; no polar functions. Berkeley's course is just a validation of Algebra 2 skills. The SAT does the same thing. But, since the UC no longer considers SAT scores, they appear to need an alternative way to do the same thing.
Berkeley's course name for precalc is interesting. Math 32. Generally, math courses are ordered sequentially in order of difficulty. But calculus is Math 1 at Berkeley. So their options were to label Precalc as Math 0 or give it a higher number. They opted for the latter even though it is incongruous with the ordering of other courses.
There's always kids that need remedial courses in college. Their HS didn't offer good coursework, they struggle on some subjects etc. But we used to just call it remedial, now that term is disfavored.
The issue is more pronounced now that the UC no longer uses SAT scores.
Anonymous
05/27/2024 15:05
Subject: How can precalc be an AP class?
Anonymous wrote:AP is the only option at my kid’s school for precalc and I am irate about it. There is no “grade level” precalc. Not everyone wants or needs an advanced class. But our administration seems fine to leave those kids behind. Is my kid just supposed to stop math or get a D???
AP precalc is a grade-level class. It's kids who need more advanced work who are left behind if they don't have a class that pushes beyond the AP content.
Anonymous
05/27/2024 13:46
Subject: How can precalc be an AP class?
AP is the only option at my kid’s school for precalc and I am irate about it. There is no “grade level” precalc. Not everyone wants or needs an advanced class. But our administration seems fine to leave those kids behind. Is my kid just supposed to stop math or get a D???
Anonymous
05/27/2024 13:41
Subject: How can precalc be an AP class?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Not all states have 4 years obligatory math in high school. For example California only has 2 years mandatory, which is why precalculus could be a university class.
But wouldn't it be considered remedial? There are college English classes that cover the absolute basics of grammar and composition, and they're zero-level classes, whereas "Introductory Composition" is 101
All the scoffing is a little ridiculous, elitist and parochial, all at once. The educational requirements are varied across the 50 states not everything is the same as in your neck of the woods.
It would not be remedial, but if course it will not count as a requirement for science and engineering majors. It will count for some other majors like humanities, and frankly you don’t need to take calculus for comparative literature or marketing.
If UC Berkeley has a precalculus course and gives credit to it, it’s good enough as an AP from some random high school. It’s up there with all lower division courses like calculus, multi, Lin alg, etc.
https://math.berkeley.edu/courses/overview/lowerdivcourses/math32
Another benefit is in an age of grade inflation and lax standards there some attempt at an independent evaluation, which I welcome.
But the AP precalc exam is watered down. It only tests on the first three units of AP Precalc, which is roughly 2/3 Algebra 2 content. The exam does not cover the more challenging aspects of precalc.
Check the Berkeley precalculus, it’s the same as what’s on the AP exam.
College Board doesn’t have to do the most challenging course or the most in depth, probably there are honors precalculus classes that are better.
The student should choose whatever makes the most sense to them.
Berkeley's course appears to cover even less content than the watered down AP Precalc exam; no polar functions. Berkeley's course is just a validation of Algebra 2 skills. The SAT does the same thing. But, since the UC no longer considers SAT scores, they appear to need an alternative way to do the same thing.
Berkeley's course name for precalc is interesting. Math 32. Generally, math courses are ordered sequentially in order of difficulty. But calculus is Math 1 at Berkeley. So their options were to label Precalc as Math 0 or give it a higher number. They opted for the latter even though it is incongruous with the ordering of other courses.
There's always kids that need remedial courses in college. Their HS didn't offer good coursework, they struggle on some subjects etc. But we used to just call it remedial, now that term is disfavored.
Anonymous
05/27/2024 12:20
Subject: Re:How can precalc be an AP class?
Anonymous wrote:
My kid took it for the AP grade boost.
+1. This is the same reason AP CS Principles exists.
Anonymous
05/27/2024 12:15
Subject: How can precalc be an AP class?
Anonymous wrote:Precalculus courses show wide variations between different states and even different counties within states. I’m sure colleges welcome the standardization that comes with making a precalculus class AP level. At least, they now know what content a student has mastered in precalculus. A small percentage of students have completed Calculus in high school. Most have not. And many counties such as MCPS have done away with final exams so having AP Precalculus means those kids have to take a rigorous 2-3 hour final exam. Finally, AP classes tend to be more difficult than their CC equivalent
All fine. But have regular precalc students take AP Precalc, not honors students who intend to take AP Calc. A student with an AP Calc credit doesn't need to validate their precalc knowledge. That is why it is odd that many local districts are putting honors students into AP Precalc and excluding non-honors students from the course.
Anonymous
05/27/2024 11:51
Subject: How can precalc be an AP class?
Precalculus courses show wide variations between different states and even different counties within states. I’m sure colleges welcome the standardization that comes with making a precalculus class AP level. At least, they now know what content a student has mastered in precalculus. A small percentage of students have completed Calculus in high school. Most have not. And many counties such as MCPS have done away with final exams so having AP Precalculus means those kids have to take a rigorous 2-3 hour final exam. Finally, AP classes tend to be more difficult than their CC equivalent
Anonymous
05/27/2024 11:46
Subject: How can precalc be an AP class?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Not all states have 4 years obligatory math in high school. For example California only has 2 years mandatory, which is why precalculus could be a university class.
But wouldn't it be considered remedial? There are college English classes that cover the absolute basics of grammar and composition, and they're zero-level classes, whereas "Introductory Composition" is 101
All the scoffing is a little ridiculous, elitist and parochial, all at once. The educational requirements are varied across the 50 states not everything is the same as in your neck of the woods.
It would not be remedial, but if course it will not count as a requirement for science and engineering majors. It will count for some other majors like humanities, and frankly you don’t need to take calculus for comparative literature or marketing.
If UC Berkeley has a precalculus course and gives credit to it, it’s good enough as an AP from some random high school. It’s up there with all lower division courses like calculus, multi, Lin alg, etc.
https://math.berkeley.edu/courses/overview/lowerdivcourses/math32
Another benefit is in an age of grade inflation and lax standards there some attempt at an independent evaluation, which I welcome.
But the AP precalc exam is watered down. It only tests on the first three units of AP Precalc, which is roughly 2/3 Algebra 2 content. The exam does not cover the more challenging aspects of precalc.
Check the Berkeley precalculus, it’s the same as what’s on the AP exam.
College Board doesn’t have to do the most challenging course or the most in depth, probably there are honors precalculus classes that are better.
The student should choose whatever makes the most sense to them.
Berkeley's course appears to cover even less content than the watered down AP Precalc exam; no polar functions. Berkeley's course is just a validation of Algebra 2 skills. The SAT does the same thing. But, since the UC no longer considers SAT scores, they appear to need an alternative way to do the same thing.
Berkeley's course name for precalc is interesting. Math 32. Generally, math courses are ordered sequentially in order of difficulty. But calculus is Math 1 at Berkeley. So their options were to label Precalc as Math 0 or give it a higher number. They opted for the latter even though it is incongruous with the ordering of other courses.
Anonymous
05/27/2024 11:25
Subject: How can precalc be an AP class?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What happened to Trigonometry, does that class not exist anymore?
Trigonometry is part of Precalculus.
Trig used to be combined with Algebra 2 for advanced students. But in the interests of ensuring that all students can enter the accelerated math path at any point on the path, trig is now being combined more with precalc even for advanced students. This is unfortunate as taking trig with Algebra 2 is crucial in opening up space in precalc to begin introductory calc so that BC calculus is not as rushed the following year.
Six of one, half dozen of the other. If you put more Algebra in Algebra 2 instead of in Precalc (for example, vectors and matrices) you have time for trig in Precalc. Either way you can do intro calc in Precalculus.
No local district does what you propose so it's not going to help students intending to take BC calc here. It would also violate the same new principle that you can't add additional content to an advanced math course section lest it prevent students from accessing the accelerated path anywhere along the path. It's the latter new policy in many districts that is the problem.
Anonymous
05/27/2024 11:16
Subject: Re:How can precalc be an AP class?
My kid took it for the AP grade boost.
Anonymous
05/27/2024 11:12
Subject: How can precalc be an AP class?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What happened to Trigonometry, does that class not exist anymore?
Trigonometry is part of Precalculus.
Trig used to be combined with Algebra 2 for advanced students. But in the interests of ensuring that all students can enter the accelerated math path at any point on the path, trig is now being combined more with precalc even for advanced students. This is unfortunate as taking trig with Algebra 2 is crucial in opening up space in precalc to begin introductory calc so that BC calculus is not as rushed the following year.
Six of one, half dozen of the other. If you put more Algebra in Algebra 2 instead of in Precalc (for example, vectors and matrices) you have time for trig in Precalc. Either way you can do intro calc in Precalculus.
Anonymous
05/27/2024 10:55
Subject: How can precalc be an AP class?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What happened to Trigonometry, does that class not exist anymore?
Trigonometry is part of Precalculus.
Trig used to be combined with Algebra 2 for advanced students. But in the interests of ensuring that all students can enter the accelerated math path at any point on the path, trig is now being combined more with precalc even for advanced students. This is unfortunate as taking trig with Algebra 2 is crucial in opening up space in precalc to begin introductory calc so that BC calculus is not as rushed the following year.
Anonymous
05/27/2024 10:50
Subject: How can precalc be an AP class?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Not all states have 4 years obligatory math in high school. For example California only has 2 years mandatory, which is why precalculus could be a university class.
But wouldn't it be considered remedial? There are college English classes that cover the absolute basics of grammar and composition, and they're zero-level classes, whereas "Introductory Composition" is 101
All the scoffing is a little ridiculous, elitist and parochial, all at once. The educational requirements are varied across the 50 states not everything is the same as in your neck of the woods.
It would not be remedial, but if course it will not count as a requirement for science and engineering majors. It will count for some other majors like humanities, and frankly you don’t need to take calculus for comparative literature or marketing.
If UC Berkeley has a precalculus course and gives credit to it, it’s good enough as an AP from some random high school. It’s up there with all lower division courses like calculus, multi, Lin alg, etc.
https://math.berkeley.edu/courses/overview/lowerdivcourses/math32
Another benefit is in an age of grade inflation and lax standards there some attempt at an independent evaluation, which I welcome.
I agree with the bolded. Too many colleges are admitting kids with high grades and finding after placement tests that the kid needs remedial math. A high AP precalc score lets the college know that the kid won't be needing remedial math services.
The AP Precalc exam validates students' Algebra 2 skills so it is useful in that regard for certifying minimum math qualification for two-year and some four-year colleges. But why put students who are going to take calculus in high school into that course? Their AP Calculus score can be used certify math qualification.
Anonymous
05/27/2024 10:47
Subject: How can precalc be an AP class?
Anonymous wrote:What happened to Trigonometry, does that class not exist anymore?
Trigonometry is part of Precalculus.
Anonymous
05/27/2024 10:45
Subject: How can precalc be an AP class?
Some of college has always been remedial.
As we push 75% of the population into college, you have to accept that "college level" no longer has the specificity of meaning that it used to have.
As we push 75% of the population into college, you have to accept that "college level" no longer has the specificity of meaning that it used to have.