Anonymous
Post 05/23/2024 07:51     Subject: Trying to avoid failure to launch adults
You can get arrested by the tsa?
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2024 07:40     Subject: Trying to avoid failure to launch adults
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just graduated from college, I was working a professional job and running down K St to waitress at night in order to barely afford a place to live. High school (W school) classmates came in, and were aghast to see me waitressing. They were living at home, going to the country club. It just seemed like they weren't willing to live whatever style of life they could afford on their own. Maybe it would have worried their parents and embarrassed them.


OP here. I am afraid 2 of my 3 children will be like this, especially my daughter. She is used to and likes the finer things in life.


Until she’s 16 she needs a very minimal allowance (mine gets $25 a month and that’s it) and once she’s 16 she needs a job. Regardless, do not pay for Starbucks or smoothies or random clothing she wants. Even for seasonal clothing she “needs” set a low budget for it and make her pay the rest. My girls know they will never do without needs, but if they want to live the Starbucks/Sephora/Lululemon lifestyle of their friends, that’s on them.


NP, but I selfishly don't want my teens to work because I like us all to travel in the summer and refuse to leave them behind or schedule around their work. Secondly, I don't want them to have a bunch of money independent of me. So far, we have a good relationship and they're great kids, but I'd rather they not have extra beer and drug money to spend if they start going down that path.


So far that hasn’t been an issue for us and I don’t expect it to be. But your thinking is naive. If a kid wants to behave in a deviant manner, your preventing them from working is not going to change that. Also, we are taking two trips this summer and my teen’s employer is fine with it. They also work around my teen’s EC schedule during the year. DD also has straight A’s in honors/AP classes. Your children are capable of more than you think.
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2024 07:01     Subject: Trying to avoid failure to launch adults
My 10 y.o. gets allowance for chores, has a little bit invested, and knows he either has to pay or pay half (if it’s a book or something enriching l will usually chip in) when he wants something unless it’s a bday or Xmas gift. He really thinks about what he spends his money on. I think this should be normal from an early age but not sure if it is around DC. My nieces and nephews agave similar rules but even then one of the tweens spends all his money on sweets.
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2024 06:59     Subject: Trying to avoid failure to launch adults
Therapists focus on feelings because they have no other stills for actually surviving and thriving. Probably these kids need better planning skills or conversation skills or need to move to a lower cost area or need to lower expectations for life but instead these therapists focus on feelings so they can keep people coming back to then with their endless pity parties always telling the client other people could have done more for them. Biggest scheme of the 21st century.
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2024 06:57     Subject: Trying to avoid failure to launch adults
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You avoid failure to launch by doing the work when they are young. Build them up, help them find a sense of self and a sense of purpose. Encourage their interests and invest in opportunities to grow and deepen those interests. Get them academic support if they need it. Give them chances to grow their confidence and make sure they feel secure in your love for them and their place in your family.

Model healthy adult behaviors -- healthy eating, regular exercise, positive social lives with friends and family who contribute to well being. Teach them about financial responsibility from a young age and give them opportunities to see the benefit of saving and investing in the future.

Parents whose kids flounder in their 20s or even 30s will claim they did all this but they didn't. A well-raised person will not want to live at home doing nothing in adult hood. They might live at home for periods of time, to save for a downpayment or grad school, to help an ailing parent, to regroup after a job loss or breakup. That's fine and normal. But they won't get stuck there because they'll have the confidence and self-respect to go out and try again. Adults who don't have that didn't get the right support as minors.


NP here. I am a therapist who specializes in "failure to launch" young adults, and the "sense of self" part is really key. Most of the clients on my caseload have a Cluster B personality disorder (either BPD or NPD), or become very close to meeting diagnostic criteria for one of them. One of the key components to raising a failure to launch young adult is that they have very little sense of self and self-direction because their own desires, emotions, and wants have been railroaded by their parents during their childhood and adolescence.

A very common scenario in my therapy practice (in an UMC neighborhood not unsimilar to, say, Mclean or Bethesda in the DMV) is that the parents pushed their (temperamentally sensitive) kid to elite private schools or public schools in competitive, wealthy school districts so that their kid attends a T20 college. The innately sensitive kid is then pushed to a high-paying career path such as tech, medicine, or finance, and when they can't hack it, they move back home as a 22 year old (or a 26, or sometimes 30 year old), and the failure to launch spiral begins.

The parents usually alternate between intense pride and shame for their kid. On one hand, they are filled with intense pride that their kid is an elite college grad and feel as if it reflects on them as parents. OTOH, the parents have intense shame for their kid because he/she failed to live up to the high expectations that they placed on their kid.

But wait, you might be wondering, why weren't these parents able to pick up on the fact that their kids are characterologically more sensitive and thus not well-suited for a path of Harvard and then McKinsey? These parents are unable to notice their kid's sensitive nature because they lack emotional attunement (which, to be fair, many first-gen UMC people who had to "pull themselves by their bootstraps" are deficient in). One of the first things I do as a therapist is to ask my clients to describe themselves, and ask my client's parents to describe their kid. Oftentimes I'll notice that both the failure to launch young adult and the parents are unable to provide an accurate, fully-fleshed out description of their kid to me because all parties lack the ability to "mentalize" -- in other words, be attuned to the emotional states of themselves and others.

It's actually quite sad when I ask parents to describe their adult child to me, and they'll say some version of "Oh, you know, she's smart and hard working." I'll ask if there are any other traits, and they'll just give me a blank stare. The parents are unable to mentalize any other personality traits besides "smart and conscientious."

And I really feel for these parents. It's difficult being in this situation. But I think even the most loyal and well-adjusted of children would admit that they would rather be understood than be loved but misunderstood.


Or you could just help everyone understand that irregardless of college both life and living in an expensive area is very challenging. Maybe stop trying to find faults in everyone and find solutions. Therapists are the worst.
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2024 06:51     Subject: Trying to avoid failure to launch adults
I really like the book How To Raise An Adult. I think thinking with that concept through their childhood is key - you are raising an independent individual - what will they need to both want and be able to launch?
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2024 06:48     Subject: Trying to avoid failure to launch adults
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just graduated from college, I was working a professional job and running down K St to waitress at night in order to barely afford a place to live. High school (W school) classmates came in, and were aghast to see me waitressing. They were living at home, going to the country club. It just seemed like they weren't willing to live whatever style of life they could afford on their own. Maybe it would have worried their parents and embarrassed them.


OP here. I am afraid 2 of my 3 children will be like this, especially my daughter. She is used to and likes the finer things in life.


Until she’s 16 she needs a very minimal allowance (mine gets $25 a month and that’s it) and once she’s 16 she needs a job. Regardless, do not pay for Starbucks or smoothies or random clothing she wants. Even for seasonal clothing she “needs” set a low budget for it and make her pay the rest. My girls know they will never do without needs, but if they want to live the Starbucks/Sephora/Lululemon lifestyle of their friends, that’s on them.


NP, but I selfishly don't want my teens to work because I like us all to travel in the summer and refuse to leave them behind or schedule around their work. Secondly, I don't want them to have a bunch of money independent of me. So far, we have a good relationship and they're great kids, but I'd rather they not have extra beer and drug money to spend if they start going down that path.
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2024 06:31     Subject: Re:Trying to avoid failure to launch adults
Anonymous wrote:I don't think you'll have an issue unless your child has a undiagnosed or diagnosed mental illness or you are very emotionally enmeshed in such a way they cant function on their own. Just buying them nice things and not making them get a job as a teen is not going to lead to failure to launch. Just keep an eye out for mental/emotional issues.


You are the only poster who gets it. You hit the nail on the head.

But also - don’t be a snowplow parent. Let them figure things out independently.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2024 21:17     Subject: Re:Trying to avoid failure to launch adults
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My parents helped with rent while we took our first few jobs after college that were entry level and didn’t pay particularly well. None of us ever moved home and after a few years we didn’t need help with rent anymore.


I had a coworker in my 20s with this arrangement. I'd wondered how they afforded such a nice apartment while I'd moved home with my parents and dealt with a long commute. In both cases our parents were helping with housing but they looked independent to an outside observer while I might have been seen as 'failure to launch".


Pp here. I’m in my mid thirties now and I assume all of the young twenty somethings (and even the older late twenties single people) at my company are getting help from their parents with rent. I didn’t have a super nice apartment or anything - I had a roommate in a one bedroom apartment that we converted to two with an illegal wall - but even that cost a small fortune in NYC. I also saw how hard my parents worked and when I didn’t need their help anymore, it felt like an accomplishment to tell them. In my case, I feel like my parents set good examples and there was an expectation us to do well in school and pursue lucrative enough careers. They would support us until we got there, but it wasn’t something I wanted to take advantage of if that made sense.

I never assumed coworkers at the same job as me (a prestigious bank) who lived at home were failure to launch. I assumed they didn’t come from money and rent didnt come easy to them.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2024 17:39     Subject: Re:Trying to avoid failure to launch adults
My sister and I both moved home at points in time for graduate school. The deal was as long as we were in school working towards one specific degree with a plan, we could stay there, no longer. We had to cook 3 dinners per week, help with household maintenance, and keep things tidy. My parents didn't charge us rent and paid for groceries but everything else was our responsibility. I had graduate funding and my sister worked summers. Upon graduation, we both had jobs lined up and moved out.

DH's brother moved home after quitting an entry level job he didn't like. Retired MIL paid for his beer, sports betting, and takeout, did his laundry, cooked his meals, he didn't work, sat around playing video games or went with her to their beach house for extended periods of time. She liked the company but she made it way too easy and comfortable for him. No end date, no responsibilities. The only thing that eventually motivated him to leave is when DH's sister also moved in and was so obnoxious and disruptive that he got a house with friends and a job bartending. DH's sister is still living at home, she works part time because she doesn't like working full time. Drinks MIL's wine collection, spends MIL's money on redecorating, and is generally just super entitled and living beyond a standard she'd ever afford on her own. Recently she started paying $500/month in rent because it has now been several years and MIL is realizing she needs to make it a bit less comfortable, but I think she'll need to do more to get her to electively leave.

DH and I have talked about how to avoid failure to launch with our own kids and based on both families' experiences I'd say they can only move home under specific circumstances, with an exit plan. If they are working, they should pay rent, and it can't be forever. They won't go hungry but don't give them spending money. Set the expectations that they contribute as a good roommate, not reverting back to acting like the child.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2024 17:17     Subject: Trying to avoid failure to launch adults
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just graduated from college, I was working a professional job and running down K St to waitress at night in order to barely afford a place to live. High school (W school) classmates came in, and were aghast to see me waitressing. They were living at home, going to the country club. It just seemed like they weren't willing to live whatever style of life they could afford on their own. Maybe it would have worried their parents and embarrassed them.


OP here. I am afraid 2 of my 3 children will be like this, especially my daughter. She is used to and likes the finer things in life.


This is when you start slowly encouraging paid work and pulling away financial support. For example: the kids get an allowance, and the finer things in life have to be paid through the allowance. And, she can get a job on top.of the allowance of she wants.

The main reasons I left home, even though my parents didn't want me to were: too strict control over my personal life and a house with very little room.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2024 17:09     Subject: Trying to avoid failure to launch adults
I think as the economy continues to buckle, it will become even more common, as it was for many centuries. However, if it happens with my kids, there will be substantial economic contributions or it will be a pathway to independence.

I think chores and jobs for kids are very important. But I don’t have the type of kid who could be snowplowed into a top 20 anyway.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2024 16:16     Subject: Trying to avoid failure to launch adults
Anonymous wrote:You avoid failure to launch by doing the work when they are young. Build them up, help them find a sense of self and a sense of purpose. Encourage their interests and invest in opportunities to grow and deepen those interests. Get them academic support if they need it. Give them chances to grow their confidence and make sure they feel secure in your love for them and their place in your family.

Model healthy adult behaviors -- healthy eating, regular exercise, positive social lives with friends and family who contribute to well being. Teach them about financial responsibility from a young age and give them opportunities to see the benefit of saving and investing in the future.

Parents whose kids flounder in their 20s or even 30s will claim they did all this but they didn't. A well-raised person will not want to live at home doing nothing in adult hood. They might live at home for periods of time, to save for a downpayment or grad school, to help an ailing parent, to regroup after a job loss or breakup. That's fine and normal. But they won't get stuck there because they'll have the confidence and self-respect to go out and try again. Adults who don't have that didn't get the right support as minors.


NP here. I am a therapist who specializes in "failure to launch" young adults, and the "sense of self" part is really key. Most of the clients on my caseload have a Cluster B personality disorder (either BPD or NPD), or become very close to meeting diagnostic criteria for one of them. One of the key components to raising a failure to launch young adult is that they have very little sense of self and self-direction because their own desires, emotions, and wants have been railroaded by their parents during their childhood and adolescence.

A very common scenario in my therapy practice (in an UMC neighborhood not unsimilar to, say, Mclean or Bethesda in the DMV) is that the parents pushed their (temperamentally sensitive) kid to elite private schools or public schools in competitive, wealthy school districts so that their kid attends a T20 college. The innately sensitive kid is then pushed to a high-paying career path such as tech, medicine, or finance, and when they can't hack it, they move back home as a 22 year old (or a 26, or sometimes 30 year old), and the failure to launch spiral begins.

The parents usually alternate between intense pride and shame for their kid. On one hand, they are filled with intense pride that their kid is an elite college grad and feel as if it reflects on them as parents. OTOH, the parents have intense shame for their kid because he/she failed to live up to the high expectations that they placed on their kid.

But wait, you might be wondering, why weren't these parents able to pick up on the fact that their kids are characterologically more sensitive and thus not well-suited for a path of Harvard and then McKinsey? These parents are unable to notice their kid's sensitive nature because they lack emotional attunement (which, to be fair, many first-gen UMC people who had to "pull themselves by their bootstraps" are deficient in). One of the first things I do as a therapist is to ask my clients to describe themselves, and ask my client's parents to describe their kid. Oftentimes I'll notice that both the failure to launch young adult and the parents are unable to provide an accurate, fully-fleshed out description of their kid to me because all parties lack the ability to "mentalize" -- in other words, be attuned to the emotional states of themselves and others.

It's actually quite sad when I ask parents to describe their adult child to me, and they'll say some version of "Oh, you know, she's smart and hard working." I'll ask if there are any other traits, and they'll just give me a blank stare. The parents are unable to mentalize any other personality traits besides "smart and conscientious."

And I really feel for these parents. It's difficult being in this situation. But I think even the most loyal and well-adjusted of children would admit that they would rather be understood than be loved but misunderstood.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2024 16:14     Subject: Trying to avoid failure to launch adults
Giving them money is kind of a separate issue from living at home imo. I had a lot of unearned money when I was a young adult, from a grandparent, but I still had a job and an apartment. Probably a nicer apartment or at least better groceries and clothes? A car I bought with cash. A lot of young adults have financial support that is invisible or hard to quantify from the outside.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2024 16:10     Subject: Trying to avoid failure to launch adults
I think that's the downside to having a very nice UMC life and providing a nice comfortable home. They will never want to leave. I know my kids (13 and under) have no appreciation for how good they have it. But it will become very obvious when they are on their own for their first time trying to make their own way. Home will never look so good. Maybe that will light a fire under them to find their own success but it won't be easy.