Anonymous
06/06/2024 06:36
Subject: Surprise Trust Document in the Mail
Anonymous wrote:Read question 28 on the last page. https://www.simscampbell.law/wp-content/uploads/Revocable_Trusts_Maryland.pdf
It won’t let me paste it for some reason. The bank has no legal obligation to notify you until the trust becomes irrevocable in MD. So something happened. It’s worth requesting the full trust from the bank. I would start there.
When does a trust become irrevocable?
DP
Anonymous
06/04/2024 09:32
Subject: Surprise Trust Document in the Mail
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Do you have the actual trust document? If so, have you read it? It may answer many of your questions. As her successor trustee, I administered my aunt’s trust ($300,000) when she became unwell and I used it to pay her expenses while she was alive and the trust had explicit instructions for how to distribute assets when she died. I don’t see why you need a lawyer unless you can’t understand what the document says.
So, what does it say? There is a reason the bank sent it to you, and I don’t know what that reason is. They have no obligation to notify beneficiaries until the assets are going to be transferred. Then there is a requirement in most states to notify beneficiaries within 60 days that they are a names party to a trust.
Step 1: read the documents
Actually this is in Maryland and the bank told me according to Maryland law, the beneficiaries do now legally have to get annual statements of the trust. I do not have the actual trust document though. Just a bank statement of the various investments. I will ask the bank if they can send me the actual trust document then. I’m not sure if it will be permitted if in his name but I can try.
Debby is admitted in Maryland too. She’s very knowledgeable. Worth a consult.
I bet this post was created just to shill for her. Nice try op.
Anonymous
05/14/2024 00:33
Subject: Surprise Trust Document in the Mail
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I would call him and say thank you and just check on him to see if he is ok or needs anything. Hopefully he didn’t do this because he is sick or something. Not sure what other people think
Based on the description here, I don't think the trust is from the uncle. It sounds like maybe the grandparents or some other relative set it up with the uncle as a beneficiary and then named the original poster and sibling as remainder beneficiaries (probably as heirs of their parent who is the uncle's sibling). If he's not otherwise close to uncle it may not be a good idea to talk to him about it.
Why not? I know the OP says he’s unlikeable but people change. It sounds kind of sad like he’s all alone. He doesn’t have to mention the trust just wanted to reach out to his mother’s brother or whatever the relationship.
How can you pretend he doesn’t exist?
Anonymous
05/12/2024 21:06
Subject: Surprise Trust Document in the Mail
OP, you said your uncle has no children, does he have any living siblings? You said you and your sibling are listed as the remainder men, does your uncle have any other believes or nephews (besides you and your sibling children). Just trying to understand if you and your sibling are your uncles only living relatives.
Anonymous
05/12/2024 19:12
Subject: Surprise Trust Document in the Mail
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read all the posts.
I’m a lawyer - not trusts and estates - but I come from a family with lots of trusts and I’m the de facto family coordinator of everything.
Did your uncle move to a different state recently? Some states require remainder beneficiaries to be kept abreast of trust accountings. That may be what this is.
As for your questions, you would need the trust document to answer most of those. You may or may not have the right to access the trust document.
But basically here is the deal. The most likely scenario is that at some point someone older than your uncle set up a trust and made your uncle the primary beneficiary. You are the remainderman, since he is childless the trust was probably written so nieces or nephews are the back up remaindermen if he doesn’t have any kids. It could also just be divided any descendants of the original grantor so it could be not just you guys but also cousins or ai ya and uncles. It is also very possible that your uncle has the right to write a will and leave it to the grantors descendants or
Will post more later
Sorry, I had to leave and do something else. Saw your update.
I wonder if your uncle moved to a different state lately? Some states require accounting to remainder men, some do not.
Or maybe he changed financial institutions and the new bank thinks they need to send you a reporting whereas the old bank did not?
Or maybe he actually set this trust up for himself recently?
Anyway. In terms of what you should do - nothing. In terms of what you should count on - nothing.
It's entirely possible he has the ability to change the remainder men. It's also possible he has the right to leave you next to nothing and leave the rest to charity.
I would assume that you inherit (nothing) though it's entirely possible you will inherit a ton.
I would NOT do anything to antagonize the situation. Technically as a remainder man, you could try to insist he follows the terms of the trust to a T (ie that he doesn't spend too much on himself). But pushing him about this could backfire because he could write a will leave the trust to someone else.
I don't have kids and my dad's lawyer put all sort of provisions in there to make sure my nieces and nephews wouldn't be able to pester me about this trust. I am the primary beneficiary.I have the right to leave it to them or to charity or to both. If one is a dick, I can leave it to the rest of them and exclude the one who is a dick.
Hard to know, since you haven't seen the trust.
But bottom line - don't antagonize your uncle. Be nice.
You might want to ask an attorney if you should ask for a copy of the trust, or you may want to ask your uncle who is lawyer is who is holding the documents for when he dies. But be wary of any lawyer who proposes any shenanigans designed to keep the money preserved for you. That could backfire, big time.
Bottom line, consider any inheritance a pleasant but not expected gift.
I just re-read your original post. I bet what happened is that since he is getting old, he decided to appoint a corporate trustee, the bank. Perhaps previously he was his own trustee and that's why he didn't bother with all the accounting. Maybe that's why you are getting it for the first time.
He likely can spend as much as he wants assuming it's his own expenses.
Probably when and if you inherit it, it will remain in trust.
Are your parents still alive? Did they have a similar trust in their estate?
Anonymous
05/12/2024 19:07
Subject: Surprise Trust Document in the Mail
Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read all the posts.
I’m a lawyer - not trusts and estates - but I come from a family with lots of trusts and I’m the de facto family coordinator of everything.
Did your uncle move to a different state recently? Some states require remainder beneficiaries to be kept abreast of trust accountings. That may be what this is.
As for your questions, you would need the trust document to answer most of those. You may or may not have the right to access the trust document.
But basically here is the deal. The most likely scenario is that at some point someone older than your uncle set up a trust and made your uncle the primary beneficiary. You are the remainderman, since he is childless the trust was probably written so nieces or nephews are the back up remaindermen if he doesn’t have any kids. It could also just be divided any descendants of the original grantor so it could be not just you guys but also cousins or ai ya and uncles. It is also very possible that your uncle has the right to write a will and leave it to the grantors descendants or
Will post more later
Sorry, I had to leave and do something else. Saw your update.
I wonder if your uncle moved to a different state lately? Some states require accounting to remainder men, some do not.
Or maybe he changed financial institutions and the new bank thinks they need to send you a reporting whereas the old bank did not?
Or maybe he actually set this trust up for himself recently?
Anyway. In terms of what you should do - nothing. In terms of what you should count on - nothing.
It's entirely possible he has the ability to change the remainder men. It's also possible he has the right to leave you next to nothing and leave the rest to charity.
I would assume that you inherit (nothing) though it's entirely possible you will inherit a ton.
I would NOT do anything to antagonize the situation. Technically as a remainder man, you could try to insist he follows the terms of the trust to a T (ie that he doesn't spend too much on himself). But pushing him about this could backfire because he could write a will leave the trust to someone else.
I don't have kids and my dad's lawyer put all sort of provisions in there to make sure my nieces and nephews wouldn't be able to pester me about this trust. I am the primary beneficiary.I have the right to leave it to them or to charity or to both. If one is a dick, I can leave it to the rest of them and exclude the one who is a dick.
Hard to know, since you haven't seen the trust.
But bottom line - don't antagonize your uncle. Be nice.
You might want to ask an attorney if you should ask for a copy of the trust, or you may want to ask your uncle who is lawyer is who is holding the documents for when he dies. But be wary of any lawyer who proposes any shenanigans designed to keep the money preserved for you. That could backfire, big time.
Bottom line, consider any inheritance a pleasant but not expected gift.
Anonymous
05/12/2024 18:12
Subject: Re:Surprise Trust Document in the Mail
As to why you knew nothing of this trust... how long ago did your uncle's parents (your grandparents) die? I presume it was a trust set up by them? You don't mention your own parents, have they passed on? I would think a trust was set up by your grandparents for your uncle and either your mom or dad? Or would they have just left all that money to your uncle, and not your parent? It seems odd that your parents wouldn't have mentioned anything about this trust, if they even knew about it.
Anonymous
05/12/2024 18:07
Subject: Re:Surprise Trust Document in the Mail
OP, i am definitely not a lawyer...
But I read here that in MD, the law requires "a trustee of an irrevocable trust to (1) within 60 days after accepting a trusteeship, notify the qualified beneficiaries of the acceptance and of the trustee’s name, address and telephone number; and (2) within 90 days after learning of an irrevocable trust’s creation (or that a revocable trust has become irrevocable), notify the qualified beneficiaries of the trust’s existence, the settlor’s identity, the right to request a copy of the trust and the right to a trustee’s report."
I wonder if something happened to the original trustee of this trust (died, closed up shop etc.) and the trusteeship has been passed to a new lawyer or bank? That would trigger this requirement to notify you, a "qualified beneficiary". "Qualified beneficiary" = "persons currently entitled or eligible to receive trust distributions and also those who would be so entitled or eligible if the interests of the current beneficiaries terminated without terminating the trust or if the trust terminated on that date." so I think you would count as the second definition there.
https://www.loeb.com/en/insights/publications/2023/06/irrevocable-trusts-and-the-rights-of-beneficiaries-toinformation#:~:text=Maryland%20also%20requires%20a%20trustee,or%20that%20a%20revocable%20trust
But I read here that in MD, the law requires "a trustee of an irrevocable trust to (1) within 60 days after accepting a trusteeship, notify the qualified beneficiaries of the acceptance and of the trustee’s name, address and telephone number; and (2) within 90 days after learning of an irrevocable trust’s creation (or that a revocable trust has become irrevocable), notify the qualified beneficiaries of the trust’s existence, the settlor’s identity, the right to request a copy of the trust and the right to a trustee’s report."
I wonder if something happened to the original trustee of this trust (died, closed up shop etc.) and the trusteeship has been passed to a new lawyer or bank? That would trigger this requirement to notify you, a "qualified beneficiary". "Qualified beneficiary" = "persons currently entitled or eligible to receive trust distributions and also those who would be so entitled or eligible if the interests of the current beneficiaries terminated without terminating the trust or if the trust terminated on that date." so I think you would count as the second definition there.
https://www.loeb.com/en/insights/publications/2023/06/irrevocable-trusts-and-the-rights-of-beneficiaries-toinformation#:~:text=Maryland%20also%20requires%20a%20trustee,or%20that%20a%20revocable%20trust
Anonymous
05/12/2024 16:17
Subject: Surprise Trust Document in the Mail
OP I’m not at all sure the bank would have a copy of the trust documents. I’m pretty sure mine doesn’t. But if you request one from the trustee, and the bank will know who that is, they might legally obligated to give them to you. Which obviously doesn’t mean they will.
Anonymous
05/12/2024 12:04
Subject: Surprise Trust Document in the Mail
I haven’t read all the posts.
I’m a lawyer - not trusts and estates - but I come from a family with lots of trusts and I’m the de facto family coordinator of everything.
Did your uncle move to a different state recently? Some states require remainder beneficiaries to be kept abreast of trust accountings. That may be what this is.
As for your questions, you would need the trust document to answer most of those. You may or may not have the right to access the trust document.
But basically here is the deal. The most likely scenario is that at some point someone older than your uncle set up a trust and made your uncle the primary beneficiary. You are the remainderman, since he is childless the trust was probably written so nieces or nephews are the back up remaindermen if he doesn’t have any kids. It could also just be divided any descendants of the original grantor so it could be not just you guys but also cousins or ai ya and uncles. It is also very possible that your uncle has the right to write a will and leave it to the grantors descendants or
Will post more later
I’m a lawyer - not trusts and estates - but I come from a family with lots of trusts and I’m the de facto family coordinator of everything.
Did your uncle move to a different state recently? Some states require remainder beneficiaries to be kept abreast of trust accountings. That may be what this is.
As for your questions, you would need the trust document to answer most of those. You may or may not have the right to access the trust document.
But basically here is the deal. The most likely scenario is that at some point someone older than your uncle set up a trust and made your uncle the primary beneficiary. You are the remainderman, since he is childless the trust was probably written so nieces or nephews are the back up remaindermen if he doesn’t have any kids. It could also just be divided any descendants of the original grantor so it could be not just you guys but also cousins or ai ya and uncles. It is also very possible that your uncle has the right to write a will and leave it to the grantors descendants or
Will post more later
Anonymous
05/12/2024 11:55
Subject: Surprise Trust Document in the Mail
Interesting, I’m not sure why the bank did that. In any case the previous advice stands, simply right to the bank and ask them for the trust documents which they are obligated to send to you. Once I sat down and read my aunts trust cover to cover, it was easy enough to understand who got what and when. I do wonder what triggered the trust to become irrevocable. Typically that happens upon the death of the trustee.
Anonymous
05/12/2024 11:51
Subject: Surprise Trust Document in the Mail
This is OP - this is what I was confused about. I never received a letter from the bank informing me of the trust at all. A full financial accounting simply showed up in my mailbox. So I already know how much is in there. The bank told me they are now legally required to send this to me as a remainder beneficiary. But the actual details as of now are known only to my Uncle and the bank. The bank only listed my sibling and I as beneficiaries. I am pretty sure there are no others. We are his only next generation kin.
Anonymous
05/12/2024 11:43
Subject: Surprise Trust Document in the Mail
In my experience administering my aunt’s trust as successor trustee, the initial letter notifying the beneficiaries that they were named in the trust did not have any financial information whatsoever. It’s simply said they were named us beneficiaries to a trust. Since I am close with all 18 of my cousins I told them I was closing it out and the proceeds would be split evenly and everyone should expect something in the neighborhood of $15-$20,000. Any of them could have asked me for a financial statement of the trust or the trust documents, but they did not. Everything was completely on the up and up and I only used a lawyer for the state tax filing which got complicated in Pennsylvania.
The reason I mentioned that is there is no reason for OP to know how much money this trust has or how much of it could potentially become hers. Now that the trust is irrevocable, simply reading the trust documents will tell her what she needs to know about how assets will be distributed but even that will not tell her the amount. She can request a trust financial accounting along with the trust documents if she chooses. In any case, clearly the next step is to write the bank and ask for the trust documents.
The reason I mentioned that is there is no reason for OP to know how much money this trust has or how much of it could potentially become hers. Now that the trust is irrevocable, simply reading the trust documents will tell her what she needs to know about how assets will be distributed but even that will not tell her the amount. She can request a trust financial accounting along with the trust documents if she chooses. In any case, clearly the next step is to write the bank and ask for the trust documents.
Anonymous
05/12/2024 11:33
Subject: Surprise Trust Document in the Mail
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some trusts contain a "bomb." A bomb goes off under the right conditions per the trust contents and you get automatically removed as a beneficiary. Trusts aren't cut and dry - better to get a lawyer to look it over.
Which is why all of us are advising her to get the documents first. There is no “bomb” gonna go off by writing a letter to the bank asking for a copy of the trust which they are legally obligated to provide. This is all the lawyer will do at this point anyway. My only hypothesis is that all of you are lawyers and trying to get a buck out of her pocket.
Not a lawyer but if I was, I woudn't be hitting DCUM for leads.
If it was a $100k trust, I'd say no need to ask a lawyer, but this is $15mln. For serious money, spending $500 for some legal advice seems like a good idea.
And you know what the first thing the lawyer will say - get a copy of the trust documents. So no, OP doesn’t need a lawyer at this point since she doesn’t even have the trust documents.
+1. Or the lawyer may suggest that they take it over from here and charge you way more than $500 to send that letter and get those Trust docs.. Get it yourself, read it and if you are still confused, go to an attorney.
Don't call the uncle. He may have enough resources on his own or may have forgotten about this trust. Why remind him that there's $15m waiting in an account for him to squander..