Anonymous
05/01/2024 13:36
Subject: Why can’t boys join Girl Scouts ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Like PP said, the organizations are unrelated and each makes their own rules. If Girl Scouts USA wanted to allow boys they could probably just change their policies to allow it, but I don't think it aligns with their mission. Girl Scouts is all about empowering girls. I could see how boys might want to join the girls - the troops I've been involved in have had a lot of focus on entrepreneurship, learning about scouts around the world and other cultures, and handcrafting skills and I don't think that is a focus in boy scouts at all.
But anyway, they designed the program with girls in mind - they want to be a safe space for girls and allow girls to have a designed place to take on leadership roles. They cite research on the benefits of all-female environments for girls and also on how girls perform more cautiously or deferentially when boys are present.
Membership is based on identity so trans girls are welcome in girls scouts.
As a parent of a boy and a girl, I absolutely love how there are girl- only spaces for my daughter (she does Girl Scouts and girls on the run- has friends who do girls who code but she isn’t interested). I truly, truly wish there were similar boys-only spaces for my son.
As a mom of two boys, there are plenty of boys only spaces available. The whole of US society centers on whiteness, straightness, and maleness being the neutral standard and any other identity is just that, an “Other” that must be specified and defined. If you don’t understand why people defined by their otherness would want designated spaces or if you feel like the existence of those spaces is somehow denying your sons something they are entitled to, then you are part of reason those spaces are needed in the first place.
DP. That poster may be part of the reason those spaces are needed but her sons aren't. They are kids. And while girls-only spaces are good for girls, it is also true that boys-only spaces are good for boys, combined with coed spaces.
As women continue to advocate for girls- and women-only spaces, it makes no sense to me that they refuse to understand why boys- or men-only spaces might also be a good idea.
Boys have boys only spaces. There's a couple parallels to Girls on the Run for boys. BSA is mostly separated by gender at the pack, troop, or patrol level.
Except they do all of the activities with girls, including camping and camps. So no, they are not boy only spaces.
Not true at all. There are still lots and lots boys-only troops and packs. 95% of Scouting activities will be only within the confines of your troop or pack.
Sure, you may run across some girl Scouts BSA at a regional jamboree, but that's basically a once per year occurrence and no one is forcing your kid to even interact with them.
Scouts BSA can be a "boys only" space if that's what you want for your kid and your family. It still exists, you just need to seek out a troop or pack that caters to boys-only.
Search for yourself: https://beascout.scouting.org/
It even allows you to filter by "Girl Pack" or "Boy Pack" that are single gender. Within 20 miles of my DC zip code there are 44 boy-only Cub Scout packs. Knock yourself out.
PP you are responding to and I'm very familiar. My son is in BSA. But again, you're missing the point. What used to be exclusively for boys is no longer.
So? How does the policy affect your son if he's in a boys-only pack or troop? I really don't get the complaint. Your son goes to weekly pack/troop meetings + camp outs + other activities in a boys-only space.
What I'm asking is.....what's your point?
It's not a boys only space. There are girls at every event, campout, fundraiser, etc and they get Eagle Scout rank just like boys. There would be nothing wrong if boys had their own space too. It creates logistical problems and we have to make sure that none of the shenanigans go on with 15-16 year olds in the middle of the night, for example.
Anonymous
05/01/2024 13:33
Subject: Re:Why can’t boys join Girl Scouts ?
Anonymous wrote:I found this
“ Fact: No, Girl Scouts has no plans to admit boys into the organization.”
https://www.gswpa.org
IMHO as a graduate of an all girl's high school and girl scout troop, I had many more leadership opportunities in my high school and scouts. In my co-ed college, all the leadership roles went to men and women had to battle to be associate editors on the paper or do do anything in campus organizations except for sororities. The men even held leadership in feminist organizations.
Anonymous
05/01/2024 13:32
Subject: Why can’t boys join Girl Scouts ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why would they want to? Girl Scouts seems to exist to just get girls to sell cookies. Its a MLM org for girls.
Thin Mints, ftw! Never affiliated with Girl Scouts. I would gladly pay for those MLM cookies. To me it's a seasonal treat and an opportunity to be friendly to co-workers. No worse than Paul Newman's or Whole Foods cookie prices.
Fundraising skills are relevant to adulthood...communicating objectives, asking for support, being part of a community, etc.
The girls that are in it seem to be having fun and learning something.
I do think it was a bit of a market share grab by the Boy Scouts but I can appreciate that some people want to affiliate with a single organization for their entire set of kids.
It really wasn't.
In my personal experience, the girls who join Scouts BSA either (1) didn't want to be in Girl Scouts from the outset or (2) had tried GSUSA and didn't like the programming/culture. The girls joining Scouts BSA essentially were "falling through the cracks" in past decades if they were not involved in organized sports; they tend to embrace "nerd" culture a lot more than other girls (think: Dungeon & Dragons, STEM focused, tech, etc). Scouts BSA provides an excellent social outlet for girls who do not feel comfortable in Girl Scouts USA (and its focus on everything feminine) but also are not really into organized sports.
Your "personal experience" seems pretty stereotyped and rings very false. GSUSA is not focused on everything feminine, it's focused on whatever the girls in a given troop are interested in doing.
In my experience I think there is a lot more variety between girl scout activities from troop to troop than boy scouts pack to pack. If girls visit a troop that is focused on crafts and baking projects and don't like it I wish they knew that there is probably another troop nearby that has a focus on the outdoors and STEM. It's very much up to the individual troop. Boy scouts seems like more of a standard path/curriculum that is similar from pack to pack and is always going to include the camping and engineering pieces. I don't care if girls want to join boy scouts but I don't like the complaint that it's because girl scouts doesn't offer the same kind of activities. That's just not true.
Anonymous
05/01/2024 13:24
Subject: Why can’t boys join Girl Scouts ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Like PP said, the organizations are unrelated and each makes their own rules. If Girl Scouts USA wanted to allow boys they could probably just change their policies to allow it, but I don't think it aligns with their mission. Girl Scouts is all about empowering girls. I could see how boys might want to join the girls - the troops I've been involved in have had a lot of focus on entrepreneurship, learning about scouts around the world and other cultures, and handcrafting skills and I don't think that is a focus in boy scouts at all.
But anyway, they designed the program with girls in mind - they want to be a safe space for girls and allow girls to have a designed place to take on leadership roles. They cite research on the benefits of all-female environments for girls and also on how girls perform more cautiously or deferentially when boys are present.
Membership is based on identity so trans girls are welcome in girls scouts.
As a parent of a boy and a girl, I absolutely love how there are girl- only spaces for my daughter (she does Girl Scouts and girls on the run- has friends who do girls who code but she isn’t interested). I truly, truly wish there were similar boys-only spaces for my son.
As a mom of two boys, there are plenty of boys only spaces available. The whole of US society centers on whiteness, straightness, and maleness being the neutral standard and any other identity is just that, an “Other” that must be specified and defined. If you don’t understand why people defined by their otherness would want designated spaces or if you feel like the existence of those spaces is somehow denying your sons something they are entitled to, then you are part of reason those spaces are needed in the first place.
DP. That poster may be part of the reason those spaces are needed but her sons aren't. They are kids. And while girls-only spaces are good for girls, it is also true that boys-only spaces are good for boys, combined with coed spaces.
As women continue to advocate for girls- and women-only spaces, it makes no sense to me that they refuse to understand why boys- or men-only spaces might also be a good idea.
Boys have boys only spaces. There's a couple parallels to Girls on the Run for boys. BSA is mostly separated by gender at the pack, troop, or patrol level.
Except they do all of the activities with girls, including camping and camps. So no, they are not boy only spaces.
Not true at all. There are still lots and lots boys-only troops and packs. 95% of Scouting activities will be only within the confines of your troop or pack.
Sure, you may run across some girl Scouts BSA at a regional jamboree, but that's basically a once per year occurrence and no one is forcing your kid to even interact with them.
Scouts BSA can be a "boys only" space if that's what you want for your kid and your family. It still exists, you just need to seek out a troop or pack that caters to boys-only.
Search for yourself: https://beascout.scouting.org/
It even allows you to filter by "Girl Pack" or "Boy Pack" that are single gender. Within 20 miles of my DC zip code there are 44 boy-only Cub Scout packs. Knock yourself out.
PP you are responding to and I'm very familiar. My son is in BSA. But again, you're missing the point. What used to be exclusively for boys is no longer.
So? How does the policy affect your son if he's in a boys-only pack or troop? I really don't get the complaint. Your son goes to weekly pack/troop meetings + camp outs + other activities in a boys-only space.
What I'm asking is.....what's your point?
Anonymous
05/01/2024 13:16
Subject: Why can’t boys join Girl Scouts ?
why is this even a question. What boy would WANT to be a girl scout?!
Anonymous
05/01/2024 13:15
Subject: Why can’t boys join Girl Scouts ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why would they want to? Girl Scouts seems to exist to just get girls to sell cookies. Its a MLM org for girls.
Thin Mints, ftw! Never affiliated with Girl Scouts. I would gladly pay for those MLM cookies. To me it's a seasonal treat and an opportunity to be friendly to co-workers. No worse than Paul Newman's or Whole Foods cookie prices.
Fundraising skills are relevant to adulthood...communicating objectives, asking for support, being part of a community, etc.
The girls that are in it seem to be having fun and learning something.
I do think it was a bit of a market share grab by the Boy Scouts but I can appreciate that some people want to affiliate with a single organization for their entire set of kids.
The cookies aren't my favorite part of Girl Scouts*, but my daughter definitely gets something out the sale in terms of learning to communicate to adults, handle rejection, set goals, etc. Girl Scouts is also very variable by troop, but I've never seen a troop that was either just about selling cookies or about "everything feminine." Our troop is about outdoor skills and STEM stuff mostly because that's what the troop enjoys.
I've got a lot of criticisms of the Girl Scout program, but "it's all cookies" or "it's too feminine" are both pretty far off the mark in my experience.
*I'm the cookie manager, but that's because it's a role I can fill as a father without issue
Anonymous
05/01/2024 13:10
Subject: Why can’t boys join Girl Scouts ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why would they want to? Girl Scouts seems to exist to just get girls to sell cookies. Its a MLM org for girls.
Thin Mints, ftw! Never affiliated with Girl Scouts. I would gladly pay for those MLM cookies. To me it's a seasonal treat and an opportunity to be friendly to co-workers. No worse than Paul Newman's or Whole Foods cookie prices.
Fundraising skills are relevant to adulthood...communicating objectives, asking for support, being part of a community, etc.
The girls that are in it seem to be having fun and learning something.
I do think it was a bit of a market share grab by the Boy Scouts but I can appreciate that some people want to affiliate with a single organization for their entire set of kids.
It really wasn't.
In my personal experience, the girls who join Scouts BSA either (1) didn't want to be in Girl Scouts from the outset or (2) had tried GSUSA and didn't like the programming/culture. The girls joining Scouts BSA essentially were "falling through the cracks" in past decades if they were not involved in organized sports; they tend to embrace "nerd" culture a lot more than other girls (think: Dungeon & Dragons, STEM focused, tech, etc). Scouts BSA provides an excellent social outlet for girls who do not feel comfortable in Girl Scouts USA (and its focus on everything feminine) but also are not really into organized sports.
Your "personal experience" seems pretty stereotyped and rings very false. GSUSA is not focused on everything feminine, it's focused on whatever the girls in a given troop are interested in doing.
Anonymous
05/01/2024 13:10
Subject: Why can’t boys join Girl Scouts ?
Anonymous wrote:What Scouts BSA chooses to do with its membership has nothing to do with what Girl Scouts of the USA chooses to do with its membership.
It's like asking if IHOP serves hamburgers why doesn't Burger King serve pancakes. One thing has nothing to do with the other.
Good example. I think of lot of people think of them as two branches of the same organization or two sides of the same coin. It's just not widely understood that they are completely separate and not related.
Anonymous
05/01/2024 13:06
Subject: Why can’t boys join Girl Scouts ?
This is such a non issue. I have never met a boy over the age of 6 that wants to join Girl Scouts. I am a Girl Scout leader and a Boy Scout leader and am pretty familiar with both programs.
Incidentally, any children assigned male st birth who identify as girls can join Girl Scouts. They aren’t checking biological markers.
Incidentally, any children assigned male st birth who identify as girls can join Girl Scouts. They aren’t checking biological markers.
Anonymous
05/01/2024 13:05
Subject: Why can’t boys join Girl Scouts ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why would they want to? Girl Scouts seems to exist to just get girls to sell cookies. Its a MLM org for girls.
Thin Mints, ftw! Never affiliated with Girl Scouts. I would gladly pay for those MLM cookies. To me it's a seasonal treat and an opportunity to be friendly to co-workers. No worse than Paul Newman's or Whole Foods cookie prices.
Fundraising skills are relevant to adulthood...communicating objectives, asking for support, being part of a community, etc.
The girls that are in it seem to be having fun and learning something.
I do think it was a bit of a market share grab by the Boy Scouts but I can appreciate that some people want to affiliate with a single organization for their entire set of kids.
It really wasn't.
In my personal experience, the girls who join Scouts BSA either (1) didn't want to be in Girl Scouts from the outset or (2) had tried GSUSA and didn't like the programming/culture. The girls joining Scouts BSA essentially were "falling through the cracks" in past decades if they were not involved in organized sports; they tend to embrace "nerd" culture a lot more than other girls (think: Dungeon & Dragons, STEM focused, tech, etc). Scouts BSA provides an excellent social outlet for girls who do not feel comfortable in Girl Scouts USA (and its focus on everything feminine) but also are not really into organized sports.
This has not been my experience with Girl Scouts as a kid or a mom of a scout.
Anonymous
05/01/2024 13:02
Subject: Why can’t boys join Girl Scouts ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Like PP said, the organizations are unrelated and each makes their own rules. If Girl Scouts USA wanted to allow boys they could probably just change their policies to allow it, but I don't think it aligns with their mission. Girl Scouts is all about empowering girls. I could see how boys might want to join the girls - the troops I've been involved in have had a lot of focus on entrepreneurship, learning about scouts around the world and other cultures, and handcrafting skills and I don't think that is a focus in boy scouts at all.
But anyway, they designed the program with girls in mind - they want to be a safe space for girls and allow girls to have a designed place to take on leadership roles. They cite research on the benefits of all-female environments for girls and also on how girls perform more cautiously or deferentially when boys are present.
Membership is based on identity so trans girls are welcome in girls scouts.
As a parent of a boy and a girl, I absolutely love how there are girl- only spaces for my daughter (she does Girl Scouts and girls on the run- has friends who do girls who code but she isn’t interested). I truly, truly wish there were similar boys-only spaces for my son.
As a mom of two boys, there are plenty of boys only spaces available. The whole of US society centers on whiteness, straightness, and maleness being the neutral standard and any other identity is just that, an “Other” that must be specified and defined. If you don’t understand why people defined by their otherness would want designated spaces or if you feel like the existence of those spaces is somehow denying your sons something they are entitled to, then you are part of reason those spaces are needed in the first place.
DP. That poster may be part of the reason those spaces are needed but her sons aren't. They are kids. And while girls-only spaces are good for girls, it is also true that boys-only spaces are good for boys, combined with coed spaces.
As women continue to advocate for girls- and women-only spaces, it makes no sense to me that they refuse to understand why boys- or men-only spaces might also be a good idea.
Boys have boys only spaces. There's a couple parallels to Girls on the Run for boys. BSA is mostly separated by gender at the pack, troop, or patrol level.
Except they do all of the activities with girls, including camping and camps. So no, they are not boy only spaces.
Not true at all. There are still lots and lots boys-only troops and packs. 95% of Scouting activities will be only within the confines of your troop or pack.
Sure, you may run across some girl Scouts BSA at a regional jamboree, but that's basically a once per year occurrence and no one is forcing your kid to even interact with them.
Scouts BSA can be a "boys only" space if that's what you want for your kid and your family. It still exists, you just need to seek out a troop or pack that caters to boys-only.
Search for yourself: https://beascout.scouting.org/
It even allows you to filter by "Girl Pack" or "Boy Pack" that are single gender. Within 20 miles of my DC zip code there are 44 boy-only Cub Scout packs. Knock yourself out.
PP you are responding to and I'm very familiar. My son is in BSA. But again, you're missing the point. What used to be exclusively for boys is no longer.
Anonymous
05/01/2024 13:02
Subject: Why can’t boys join Girl Scouts ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This post on the Girl Scouts website explains their philosophy: https://www.girlscouts.org/en/raising-girls/happy-and-healthy/happy/girls-only-single-gender-empowering-girls.html
Be honest. That philosophy is at least 20-30 years out of date.
PP and sure, you could be correct, I didn't look at the studies cited and whether they are too old to justify the position. But OP asked why and said they couldn't find an answer with Google. This is why. Maybe it's not defensible, but it's their stated reasoning.
Anonymous
05/01/2024 13:00
Subject: Why can’t boys join Girl Scouts ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why would they want to? Girl Scouts seems to exist to just get girls to sell cookies. Its a MLM org for girls.
Thin Mints, ftw! Never affiliated with Girl Scouts. I would gladly pay for those MLM cookies. To me it's a seasonal treat and an opportunity to be friendly to co-workers. No worse than Paul Newman's or Whole Foods cookie prices.
Fundraising skills are relevant to adulthood...communicating objectives, asking for support, being part of a community, etc.
The girls that are in it seem to be having fun and learning something.
I do think it was a bit of a market share grab by the Boy Scouts but I can appreciate that some people want to affiliate with a single organization for their entire set of kids.
It really wasn't.
In my personal experience, the girls who join Scouts BSA either (1) didn't want to be in Girl Scouts from the outset or (2) had tried GSUSA and didn't like the programming/culture. The girls joining Scouts BSA essentially were "falling through the cracks" in past decades if they were not involved in organized sports; they tend to embrace "nerd" culture a lot more than other girls (think: Dungeon & Dragons, STEM focused, tech, etc). Scouts BSA provides an excellent social outlet for girls who do not feel comfortable in Girl Scouts USA (and its focus on everything feminine) but also are not really into organized sports.
Anonymous
05/01/2024 12:56
Subject: Re:Why can’t boys join Girl Scouts ?
Just because Boy Scouts decided to do that doesn’t mean Girl Scouts should. I thought was strange when BS opened to girls but maybe they were struggling with enrollment.
Anonymous
05/01/2024 12:53
Subject: Why can’t boys join Girl Scouts ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Like PP said, the organizations are unrelated and each makes their own rules. If Girl Scouts USA wanted to allow boys they could probably just change their policies to allow it, but I don't think it aligns with their mission. Girl Scouts is all about empowering girls. I could see how boys might want to join the girls - the troops I've been involved in have had a lot of focus on entrepreneurship, learning about scouts around the world and other cultures, and handcrafting skills and I don't think that is a focus in boy scouts at all.
But anyway, they designed the program with girls in mind - they want to be a safe space for girls and allow girls to have a designed place to take on leadership roles. They cite research on the benefits of all-female environments for girls and also on how girls perform more cautiously or deferentially when boys are present.
Membership is based on identity so trans girls are welcome in girls scouts.
As a parent of a boy and a girl, I absolutely love how there are girl- only spaces for my daughter (she does Girl Scouts and girls on the run- has friends who do girls who code but she isn’t interested). I truly, truly wish there were similar boys-only spaces for my son.
As a mom of two boys, there are plenty of boys only spaces available. The whole of US society centers on whiteness, straightness, and maleness being the neutral standard and any other identity is just that, an “Other” that must be specified and defined. If you don’t understand why people defined by their otherness would want designated spaces or if you feel like the existence of those spaces is somehow denying your sons something they are entitled to, then you are part of reason those spaces are needed in the first place.
DP. That poster may be part of the reason those spaces are needed but her sons aren't. They are kids. And while girls-only spaces are good for girls, it is also true that boys-only spaces are good for boys, combined with coed spaces.
As women continue to advocate for girls- and women-only spaces, it makes no sense to me that they refuse to understand why boys- or men-only spaces might also be a good idea.
Boys have boys only spaces. There's a couple parallels to Girls on the Run for boys. BSA is mostly separated by gender at the pack, troop, or patrol level.
Except they do all of the activities with girls, including camping and camps. So no, they are not boy only spaces.
Not true at all. There are still lots and lots boys-only troops and packs. 95% of Scouting activities will be only within the confines of your troop or pack.
Sure, you may run across some girl Scouts BSA at a regional jamboree, but that's basically a once per year occurrence and no one is forcing your kid to even interact with them.
Scouts BSA can be a "boys only" space if that's what you want for your kid and your family. It still exists, you just need to seek out a troop or pack that caters to boys-only.
Search for yourself: https://beascout.scouting.org/
It even allows you to filter by "Girl Pack" or "Boy Pack" that are single gender. Within 20 miles of my DC zip code there are 44 boy-only Cub Scout packs. Knock yourself out.