OP,

I am sorry you are dealing with this situation. I dealt with a trainwreck of an avoidant for a few years and am sorry to say that unless he really engages with therapy, he will not change.

If you didn't have kids with this person, what you should do would be a no brainer (as Dan Savage would say, DTMFA), but since you do, maybe the following will help:

1. Make a list of the pros and cons of divorcing by the end of this or next calendar year. You've said that your spouse wouldn't likely exercise his custody rights, but how much does he interact with the kids now? if you divorced, would he be likely to support them financially to the extent that he does now or pay minimum child support? Would he be more likely to pay college costs if you and he are married than if you're not? To what extent could you now create an independent life focused upon your kids, friends and other family while still married?

2. If the answers to the questions above suggest that divorce isn't tenable until your children are grown and self-supporting, buy yourself paper calendars so you can physically cross out and countdown the days until your youngest child A) goes to and B) graduates from college so you'll have a finite sense of how long it will be until you can A) have a separate life from your spouse even if you're still in the same household and B) divorce if you ultimately decide that you want to be free to seek a spouse who will be more of an equal partner.

Anonymous wrote:Here’s the thing — he is probably lying to himself and much as you. But that doesn’t really matter. Maybe he has a litany of diagnoses, but he isn’t going to get help. So, you have to decide how to make a life in which you cannot trust a word that comes out of his mouth. Nothing you do or say will change this — he isn’t going to tell the truth or discuss anything “hard.” And he perceives many things as “hard” that most people would consider no big deal.

I can tell you that growing up with a parent that lies about everything is pretty damaging. Personally, I wish my mom had divorced. But the reality is that I cannot go back and see what both outcomes would have looked like and compare them. Perhaps her staying was the better choice. I do think at some point at some age, you have to acknowledge to your kids that dad is a liar when they notice it. If not, you are just doing the exact same thing to them.

This is hard. And I do think you finding an individual therapist to bounce all of this off of might be useful.

Let me add. I would also start operating by assuming I will be divorced in the next 2-5 years. At some point, you will probably leave. So get your finances in a row, keep your job, don’t move to a bigger house, etc.

Here’s the thing — he is probably lying to himself and much as you. But that doesn’t really matter. Maybe he has a litany of diagnoses, but he isn’t going to get help. So, you have to decide how to make a life in which you cannot trust a word that comes out of his mouth. Nothing you do or say will change this — he isn’t going to tell the truth or discuss anything “hard.” And he perceives many things as “hard” that most people would consider no big deal.

I can tell you that growing up with a parent that lies about everything is pretty damaging. Personally, I wish my mom had divorced. But the reality is that I cannot go back and see what both outcomes would have looked like and compare them. Perhaps her staying was the better choice. I do think at some point at some age, you have to acknowledge to your kids that dad is a liar when they notice it. If not, you are just doing the exact same thing to them.

This is hard. And I do think you finding an individual therapist to bounce all of this off of might be useful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to understand the dynamic and what is meant by "avoidant"? Can you give an example?

Given the folks telling you to leave, I think I'm not understanding how serious the issue is?

Op here. A recent example-I had been encouraging DH to see a doctor for months to get a physical to see if depression/low T might be a factor.

I scheduled a doctors appointment for him at a time he said worked. He went to the appointment and I asked him how it went when he got back and he gave me a generic response.

A couple months later, I was trying to track down the receipt to submit to our HSA for reimbursement. DH cannot find it. I call the doctors office. He never went to the appointment. He no showed.

I go back to DH to ask him what happened?? He says he went to the doc and doesn’t know what I’m talking about. Then when I insist he gives me a vague word salad non answer.

In this example, he’s anxious about going to the doc. But he knew I’d be upset if he didn’t go, so instead of telling he didn’t want to, he pretended to go. Then when I caught him in the lie, instead of just owning it, he added more lies and deflection to avoid me being mad at him.

Basically it’s just never addressing anything head on.

If he'd said he didn't want to go and didn't want to answer questions about it or discuss it further, how would you have responded?

Ideally positive encouragement from you that you and the kids love him and want him to feel his best would get him off the fence, but it needs to be his choice.

Op here. Yeah, I’ve done the positive encouragement thing. But at a certain point it becomes enablement of delusion when they are completely neglecting their health. This would have been the first time he went to the doctor in many years. Everyone assumes I’m a shrew and a nag. I’m not.

Anyway, my question is what strategies are there to be married to someone like this? I can’t bail on my kids and leave them with DH so it is what it is until they are older.

It's a valid choice not to go to the doctor. I wouldn't make that same choice, but it's not delusional. Your DH is likely feeling this pressure from you. The strategy is to respect your DH's autonomy. Work at understanding and respecting that others have different perspectives, even if they lead to results you don't agree with. This may not change your DH, but it's almost certain he will never open up to you unless he is confident you can tolerate hearing his perspective.

My avoidant attachment husband and I (anxious attachment) are getting divorced.

Our therapist has said we are on either side of the mountain with the grand canyon between us. He is overwhelmed and even more avoidant. He would have continued to live like this (he moved to the basement and rarely comes out) until we died. I was holding on because I thought he would demand kids 50/50 and I couldn't bear to be away from them that much.

He seemed relieved when I started with a much higher split (every other weekend with him, otherwise with me). He accepted and my goodness, why didn't I do this years ago?!?

He moves out June 1st.

So much heartbreak and grief and worry over spilling the beans to the kids...but I can't deal with the push and pull of connection seeking (me) and pulling away (him). I'm going crazy. Finally making myself a priority.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to understand the dynamic and what is meant by "avoidant"? Can you give an example?

Given the folks telling you to leave, I think I'm not understanding how serious the issue is?

Op here. A recent example-I had been encouraging DH to see a doctor for months to get a physical to see if depression/low T might be a factor.

I scheduled a doctors appointment for him at a time he said worked. He went to the appointment and I asked him how it went when he got back and he gave me a generic response.

A couple months later, I was trying to track down the receipt to submit to our HSA for reimbursement. DH cannot find it. I call the doctors office. He never went to the appointment. He no showed.

I go back to DH to ask him what happened?? He says he went to the doc and doesn’t know what I’m talking about. Then when I insist he gives me a vague word salad non answer.

In this example, he’s anxious about going to the doc. But he knew I’d be upset if he didn’t go, so instead of telling he didn’t want to, he pretended to go. Then when I caught him in the lie, instead of just owning it, he added more lies and deflection to avoid me being mad at him.

Basically it’s just never addressing anything head on.

If he'd said he didn't want to go and didn't want to answer questions about it or discuss it further, how would you have responded?

Ideally positive encouragement from you that you and the kids love him and want him to feel his best would get him off the fence, but it needs to be his choice.

Op here. Yeah, I’ve done the positive encouragement thing. But at a certain point it becomes enablement of delusion when they are completely neglecting their health. This would have been the first time he went to the doctor in many years. Everyone assumes I’m a shrew and a nag. I’m not.

Anyway, my question is what strategies are there to be married to someone like this? I can’t bail on my kids and leave them with DH so it is what it is until they are older.

Then leave him be and stop actively trying to change and manage him. It likely just makes the avoidance worse, anyway.

Single parent under one roof and let go.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to understand the dynamic and what is meant by "avoidant"? Can you give an example?

Given the folks telling you to leave, I think I'm not understanding how serious the issue is?

Op here. A recent example-I had been encouraging DH to see a doctor for months to get a physical to see if depression/low T might be a factor.

I scheduled a doctors appointment for him at a time he said worked. He went to the appointment and I asked him how it went when he got back and he gave me a generic response.

A couple months later, I was trying to track down the receipt to submit to our HSA for reimbursement. DH cannot find it. I call the doctors office. He never went to the appointment. He no showed.

I go back to DH to ask him what happened?? He says he went to the doc and doesn’t know what I’m talking about. Then when I insist he gives me a vague word salad non answer.

In this example, he’s anxious about going to the doc. But he knew I’d be upset if he didn’t go, so instead of telling he didn’t want to, he pretended to go. Then when I caught him in the lie, instead of just owning it, he added more lies and deflection to avoid me being mad at him.

Basically it’s just never addressing anything head on.

If he'd said he didn't want to go and didn't want to answer questions about it or discuss it further, how would you have responded?

Ideally positive encouragement from you that you and the kids love him and want him to feel his best would get him off the fence, but it needs to be his choice.

Op here. Yeah, I’ve done the positive encouragement thing. But at a certain point it becomes enablement of delusion when they are completely neglecting their health. This would have been the first time he went to the doctor in many years. Everyone assumes I’m a shrew and a nag. I’m not.

Anyway, my question is what strategies are there to be married to someone like this? I can’t bail on my kids and leave them with DH so it is what it is until they are older.

I'd try offering to go with him. If that doesn't work, I'd drop the rope. Haven't there always been signs he is this way? Is his family similar? It's more likely personality than hormonal, OP. You need to let go of the idea of some easy "fix" to change him. He feels that and it likely drives the avoidance more. Can you shift your focus to yourself and get some insight into why you picked him?

Then do targeted treatment

Get his brain scanned and schedule him a full neuropsych test (surveys, consult, 5 hr test of modules, debrief consult of results). Make sure you get access to everything medical.

You need professional help from a therapist to get strategies. No advice on DCUM is going to help you. You need to get a neutral third party in this conversation to mediate and hopefully talk some sense into your husband into getting treated for his mental illness.

Otherwise, I don't see you could possibly live with this person.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to understand the dynamic and what is meant by "avoidant"? Can you give an example?

Given the folks telling you to leave, I think I'm not understanding how serious the issue is?

Op here. A recent example-I had been encouraging DH to see a doctor for months to get a physical to see if depression/low T might be a factor.

I scheduled a doctors appointment for him at a time he said worked. He went to the appointment and I asked him how it went when he got back and he gave me a generic response.

A couple months later, I was trying to track down the receipt to submit to our HSA for reimbursement. DH cannot find it. I call the doctors office. He never went to the appointment. He no showed.

I go back to DH to ask him what happened?? He says he went to the doc and doesn’t know what I’m talking about. Then when I insist he gives me a vague word salad non answer.

In this example, he’s anxious about going to the doc. But he knew I’d be upset if he didn’t go, so instead of telling he didn’t want to, he pretended to go. Then when I caught him in the lie, instead of just owning it, he added more lies and deflection to avoid me being mad at him.

Basically it’s just never addressing anything head on.

If he'd said he didn't want to go and didn't want to answer questions about it or discuss it further, how would you have responded?

Ideally positive encouragement from you that you and the kids love him and want him to feel his best would get him off the fence, but it needs to be his choice.

Op here. Yeah, I’ve done the positive encouragement thing. But at a certain point it becomes enablement of delusion when they are completely neglecting their health. This would have been the first time he went to the doctor in many years. Everyone assumes I’m a shrew and a nag. I’m not.

Anyway, my question is what strategies are there to be married to someone like this? I can’t bail on my kids and leave them with DH so it is what it is until they are older.

OP - there may not be anything to “fix” - this is how he is, unless there has been a drastic change in personality for him.

So - can you accept him as is? And shift your expectations in marriage? If you want different, it’s ok to divorce. Signed, a much happier than when married DW.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to understand the dynamic and what is meant by "avoidant"? Can you give an example?

Given the folks telling you to leave, I think I'm not understanding how serious the issue is?

Op here. A recent example-I had been encouraging DH to see a doctor for months to get a physical to see if depression/low T might be a factor.

I scheduled a doctors appointment for him at a time he said worked. He went to the appointment and I asked him how it went when he got back and he gave me a generic response.

A couple months later, I was trying to track down the receipt to submit to our HSA for reimbursement. DH cannot find it. I call the doctors office. He never went to the appointment. He no showed.

I go back to DH to ask him what happened?? He says he went to the doc and doesn’t know what I’m talking about. Then when I insist he gives me a vague word salad non answer.

In this example, he’s anxious about going to the doc. But he knew I’d be upset if he didn’t go, so instead of telling he didn’t want to, he pretended to go. Then when I caught him in the lie, instead of just owning it, he added more lies and deflection to avoid me being mad at him.

Basically it’s just never addressing anything head on.

If he'd said he didn't want to go and didn't want to answer questions about it or discuss it further, how would you have responded?

Ideally positive encouragement from you that you and the kids love him and want him to feel his best would get him off the fence, but it needs to be his choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to understand the dynamic and what is meant by "avoidant"? Can you give an example?

Given the folks telling you to leave, I think I'm not understanding how serious the issue is?

Op here. A recent example-I had been encouraging DH to see a doctor for months to get a physical to see if depression/low T might be a factor.

I scheduled a doctors appointment for him at a time he said worked. He went to the appointment and I asked him how it went when he got back and he gave me a generic response.

A couple months later, I was trying to track down the receipt to submit to our HSA for reimbursement. DH cannot find it. I call the doctors office. He never went to the appointment. He no showed.

I go back to DH to ask him what happened?? He says he went to the doc and doesn’t know what I’m talking about. Then when I insist he gives me a vague word salad non answer.

In this example, he’s anxious about going to the doc. But he knew I’d be upset if he didn’t go, so instead of telling he didn’t want to, he pretended to go. Then when I caught him in the lie, instead of just owning it, he added more lies and deflection to avoid me being mad at him.

Basically it’s just never addressing anything head on.

Yikes.

My HFA and PDA ex was like this. He intended to go so assumes he went. But never did. But only remembers his intent. Yet his intent was never to go. Very convoluted

My DH is like this and eventually got unhappy and instead of telling me so we could work on things, cheated as an exit strategy.