Anonymous wrote:No one forces women to doll up.

No, but the article makes it sound like she didn't get the job because she chose not to.

Dress for the job you want, not the one you have

Anonymous wrote:

Or big 4 Partners or white shoe lawyers who look like they came out of the casting department

None of the big 4 partners I worked with or white shoe law firm partners I have seen looked like they came out of a casting department.

Anonymous wrote:My daughter just landed a marketing role at a young hip company looking for someone with 1-3 years experience. Meaning 22-25 years experience old.

Every women in that marketing department is beautiful, outgoing, in shape, well dressed, right credentials and young. My daughter bought all new outfits.

They are sales people. For better or worse a lot of women jobs are PR, Marketing, Human Resources and those women are usually smart and good looking.

How is this different on a Wall Street hiring good looking in shape Lacrosse Bros in 3,000 suits to wine and dine.

Or big 4 Partners or white shoe lawyers who look like they came out of the casting department

For men lasik, dental implants and whitening, hitting gym etc are required over 50.

Women in these roles are expected to do all that plus much, much more, long before they hit 50. And they’re not even paid as much as men.

Anonymous wrote:Women dress up for other women. They are more concerned about what the women think of them. I admit this about myself. It’s. It the patriarchy telling us to dress up. We are doing for each other . It’s a competition.

"We do?" I dress for myself.

My daughter just landed a marketing role at a young hip company looking for someone with 1-3 years experience. Meaning 22-25 years experience old.

Every women in that marketing department is beautiful, outgoing, in shape, well dressed, right credentials and young. My daughter bought all new outfits.

They are sales people. For better or worse a lot of women jobs are PR, Marketing, Human Resources and those women are usually smart and good looking.

How is this different on a Wall Street hiring good looking in shape Lacrosse Bros in 3,000 suits to wine and dine.

Or big 4 Partners or white shoe lawyers who look like they came out of the casting department

For men lasik, dental implants and whitening, hitting gym etc are required over 50.

Anonymous wrote:Maybe women are more likely to have dark circles under eyes and other facial detractors than men, hence they need makeup just to look as put together as men without makeup.

Um, no. Women are expected to have perfect skin.

Men can be ruddy faced.

Anonymous wrote:
"When Weaver asked the job recruiter for feedback about why, the recruiter wrote back in an email reviewed by HuffPost that she “was concerned that you didn’t put forth enough effort into your appearance given you were interviewing for a vice president role.”
Weaver said she was “baffled” by this feedback.
She had blown out her hair and donned a freshly ironed blazer, collared shirt and earrings for her video interview. The only thing she had not done? Put on makeup."




https://www.huffpost.com/entry/makeup-work-appearance_l_661d4063e4b0bdba1c5a7f6f?d_id=7560128&ref=bffbhuffpost&ncid_tag=fcbklnkushpmg00000063&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&utm_campaign=us_main&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0BMQABHRSWYalov1-dn2w0pi9T23juc5boZtyFliAm2FAT9qgvxqxeqa2vUYvIeQ_aem_Ab2Pgj9BvdxQfTjt3O16Rm0RiXRkZDseQLS0bljxtIZoArfoI1j6-_paLNYIxehC7U0

This is why it is gender based discrimination and the right attorney will have a very successful case.

Are the "dolling up" requirements job-related? If they are not, then a business could be in trouble. If putting on a blazer and brushing your hair is ok for men, but not women, that IS discrimination barring some job-related requirement

This is akin to the long line of flight attendant cases that found such requirements were discriminatory. The purpose of a flight attendance is, primarily, safety, not to be easy on the eyes. MOST jobs could not pass that test with differing requirements for makeup, etc.

Anyone else read this as a cop out by the recruiter? There was really nothing for this lady to improve that would have gotten her the job over who they hired, but it is an easy and obvious suggestion the recruiter can throw out. Regardless, still an issue that there is a business expectation to wear makeup.

I would say that I think some men would love a socially acceptable way to shape/highlight facial features. Especially, with online dating showing how many women find the average man unattractive. I just dont think they understand what they would be getting themselves into…

Anonymous wrote:Query whether there is a direct line between this bullshit and the number of teen girls who identify as male or nonbinary. It’s like we are telling females that if you don’t want to blow out your hair, put on makeup and jewelry and fussy shoes, you’ll have to be a man.

See also all the threads on the fashion forum discussing shoes in which posters are socked and horrified by any shoes that are actually shaped like a foot and declare them only fit for a 90 year old woman who has given up.

Not so much you have to be a man, more you get to be man. My teen DD’s friend group is about 50% non-binary or biological girls using he/him pronouns, and it appears to be mostly a statement on the BS that girls are expected to maintain once they come of age. (These kids are not running off to gender clinics or anything.) And I can’t blame them. Social media has made it all more ridiculous, with 11 year olds getting into expensive skin care products and hair highlights and gel manicures.

Be for real. I work in the C suite and all women wear makeup everyday. Maybe some industries/companies are more forgiving but yes it makes women look more polished.

In society women are judged on looks, men on providing

Query whether there is a direct line between this bullshit and the number of teen girls who identify as male or nonbinary. It’s like we are telling females that if you don’t want to blow out your hair, put on makeup and jewelry and fussy shoes, you’ll have to be a man.

See also all the threads on the fashion forum discussing shoes in which posters are socked and horrified by any shoes that are actually shaped like a foot and declare them only fit for a 90 year old woman who has given up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone else surprised that someone who's getting a blowout for an interview wears zero makeup? It's different from not paying any attention to your appearance at all. Just wondering what her thinking was.

(Not saying that makes gender norms or discrimination based on appearance okay!)

During Covid makeup became less popular and a lot of women just focused on a natural clean look with healthy hair and skin. The trend continues. I also stopped wearing makeup as have a number of people I know. I’m mid 30s.

I'm mid 30s too and every woman I know who would think off a blowout would wear make-up, often pro.done for an interview. I'm sure it depends on industry. I'm MBB consulting/finance and image matters, particularly for women.

But we are talking about women smart enough to be hired for a vice president position.

Women who think “vice president” of some company requires a Mensa member. 🤣🤣

Anyway, the answer here is not the “patriarchy” and it’s not any sinister plot. It’s a very simple fact, which if you can just accept it will make life much easier: people don’t cease to be humans at work.

Successful women are expected to be physically attractive, stylish, feminine, very slightly flirtatious. Successful men can’t be gross schlubs, but expectations around appearance are lower. OTOH men *are* required to be more confrontational, have better stories, be funnier, less prone to drama and complaining, and more comfortable with criticism than their female counterparts (just to name a few). Take the good with the bad.

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone else surprised that someone who's getting a blowout for an interview wears zero makeup? It's different from not paying any attention to your appearance at all. Just wondering what her thinking was.

(Not saying that makes gender norms or discrimination based on appearance okay!)

Maybe she doesn't want chemicals on her face.
https://www.ewg.org/the-toxic-twelve-chemicals-and-contaminants-in-cosmetics

We don't force men to worry about toxic chemicals and hair dyes.

Don't get me started on high heels that wreck your joints and leave you unable to run.