Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never knew they can deny a study for low IQ. If anything, these are the students who would need a lot more help, no?

Kids with low average IQs (and no other disability) often struggle because the work is hard, yet they don't have a disability.

Op here. They never tested for ADHD saying DC does not exhibit any traits in school. I had asked for that. If ADHD was identified would that have made a difference?

Yes. A student can get an IEP under other health impairment if they have ADHD that is impacting their ability to access the curriculum such that they require specialized instruction.

It would only have made a difference IF specialized instruction were necessary. OP, you can test for that on your own and provide the results to the school. Your pediatrician can do it.

OP here. What tests can the pediatrician do?

A Conners or Vanderbilt.

Thank you. Are these tests for ADHD? We don't need a specialist or spend thousands on psycho analysis to get the diagnosis? Can a neuropsychologist at Children's also do this with one visit?

I read about Stixrud on this forum and people saying they spent thousands.

Either going to Children’s or someplace like Stixrud are going to cost both time and money. Children’s does take insurance. And they are also going to do a Connor’s or Vanderbilt as part of their eval. Your ped can get this done really quickly.

I’m not suggesting that a full work up wouldn’t be helpful. But while you’re in process you’re potentially delaying services. Also if your child recently had evaluations, a neuropsych won’t repeat them until a period of time has elapsed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never knew they can deny a study for low IQ. If anything, these are the students who would need a lot more help, no?

Yes it’s so hard. The students are performing within their cognitive abilities. This is a hard group it situation to be in. The student can get general education support or support from MTSS.

Specific learning disability requires a processing deficit and below grade level academic achievement.

Processing deficit is not part of the SLD definition.

Yes it is. If this child were in Fairfax County, they wouldn’t get past the Basis for Committee Decision because they couldn’t account for any processing issues. You’d go down the list of language processes that impact learning, and you wouldn’t be able to say yes to any of them None of the test results show that there is a processing disorder. If you were provide specialized instruction to this student, you wouldn’t know how to tailor it because all the testing results are showing that the child is able to process information appropriately. You would have to check NO on the third question which would mean the student is not eligible under the Specific Learning Disability category.

https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/forms/se10i.pdf

Here’s the definition:
DEFINITION: Specific learning disability means a disorder in one or more of the basic psychological processes involved in understanding or in using language, spoken or written, that may manifest itself in an imperfect ability to listen, think, speak, read, write, spell, or do mathematical calculations.

That has nothing to do with processing as measured on an IQ test. Same word, different meaning.

Yes it does! The student was administered an assessment of their processing abilities. It’s right here. Please tell me where OP’s kid shows a below average in any of the processing areas:
Index/Subtest Index/Scaled Score Percentile Rank 95% Confidence Interval Qualitative Description
Verbal Comprehension 100 50 92-108 Average
Similarities 11 63
Vocabulary 9 37
Visual Spatial 92 30 85-100 Average
Block Design 7 16
Visual Puzzles 10 50
Fluid Reasoning 88 21 82-96 Low Average
Matrix Reasoning 11 63
Figure Weights 5 5
Working Memory 91 27 84-99 Average
Digit Span 9 37
Picture Span 8 25
Processing Speed 86 18 79-97 Low Average
Coding 11 63
Symbol Search 4 2
Full Scale IQ 93 32 88-99 Average

OP, many people in this thread are giving you incorrect information by saying that there is nothing in these scores above that indicate a processing deficit. They are wrong.

Generally, there are a variety of ways of comparing scores to ID processing deficits -
1) IQ/achievement significant discrepancy (whether or not below grade level)
2) Significant discrepancies between any 1 of the 4 IQ components, e.g. Verbal Comprehension of 120 but Processing Speed of 90 would be a significant discrepancy
3) pattern of strengths and weaknesses - often "composites" or "averages" hide significant discrepancies in the subscores - this is the pattern that your DC very clearly demonstrates!

Look, for example at Verbal Comprehension @100 (perfect median score - exactly average). Subscores - similarities (11) and vocabulary (9) are close together, just on either side of the median of 10.

But look more closely at the scatter in scale scores - where the median is 10, and a standard deviation is +/- 3 and a "significant discrepancy" is a difference of 4.5 points.

In Fluid Reasoning (88),Matrix Reasoning (11) and Figure Weights (5) are 6 points apart! And in Processing Speed (86)
Coding (11) and Symbol Search (4) are 7 points apart. These significant discrepancies mean that the broader score in Processing speed and Fluid Reasoning inaccurately appear "average" because the underlying subscores show above average strengths (11 is above the median 50th percentile) which are averaged out by other significantly discrepant scores.

I do not believe it's professionally appropriate for a psychologist or a school IEP team member to represent this FSIQ as accurately representative of your DC's intellectual capacity. I don't have time to write more but there are definitely other problems I see with this assessment in the WJ scores. I will try to come back to this with more citations & info later this week.

I would definitely ask for an IEE. Maybe others can chime in about how that works in your school district in VA.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never knew they can deny a study for low IQ. If anything, these are the students who would need a lot more help, no?

Yes it’s so hard. The students are performing within their cognitive abilities. This is a hard group it situation to be in. The student can get general education support or support from MTSS.

Specific learning disability requires a processing deficit and below grade level academic achievement.

Processing deficit is not part of the SLD definition.

while it’s not a requirement for IDEA, in Virginia in order to qualify for a learning disability you need both, a processing deficit and the academic/cognitive discrepancy. I would assume the posters who keep referencing the processing are in VA. If you have not taught in other states, you wouldn’t know that a processing deficit is not always required.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never knew they can deny a study for low IQ. If anything, these are the students who would need a lot more help, no?

Yes it’s so hard. The students are performing within their cognitive abilities. This is a hard group it situation to be in. The student can get general education support or support from MTSS.

Specific learning disability requires a processing deficit and below grade level academic achievement.

Processing deficit is not part of the SLD definition.

It is in many counties/areas. Check their Basis of Committee Decisions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never knew they can deny a study for low IQ. If anything, these are the students who would need a lot more help, no?

Kids with low average IQs (and no other disability) often struggle because the work is hard, yet they don't have a disability.

Op here. They never tested for ADHD saying DC does not exhibit any traits in school. I had asked for that. If ADHD was identified would that have made a difference?

Yes. A student can get an IEP under other health impairment if they have ADHD that is impacting their ability to access the curriculum such that they require specialized instruction.

It would only have made a difference IF specialized instruction were necessary. OP, you can test for that on your own and provide the results to the school. Your pediatrician can do it.

OP here. What tests can the pediatrician do?

A Conners or Vanderbilt.

Thank you. Are these tests for ADHD? We don't need a specialist or spend thousands on psycho analysis to get the diagnosis? Can a neuropsychologist at Children's also do this with one visit?

I read about Stixrud on this forum and people saying they spent thousands.

They are checklists (from you and teacher) that can tell the pediatrician if there are enough symptoms to be classified as ADHD. A diagnosis alone won't get you an IEP. A full neuropsych will both give you more information (what else could be causing his difficulties) and be a stronger advocacy document with the school. But if your goal is medication, the checklist diagnosis could be a good place to start.

I meant OP here. Not I'm here. Damn autocorrect.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never knew they can deny a study for low IQ. If anything, these are the students who would need a lot more help, no?

Kids with low average IQs (and no other disability) often struggle because the work is hard, yet they don't have a disability.

Op here. They never tested for ADHD saying DC does not exhibit any traits in school. I had asked for that. If ADHD was identified would that have made a difference?

Yes. A student can get an IEP under other health impairment if they have ADHD that is impacting their ability to access the curriculum such that they require specialized instruction.

It would only have made a difference IF specialized instruction were necessary. OP, you can test for that on your own and provide the results to the school. Your pediatrician can do it.

OP here. What tests can the pediatrician do?

A Conners or Vanderbilt.

Thank you. Are these tests for ADHD? We don't need a specialist or spend thousands on psycho analysis to get the diagnosis? Can a neuropsychologist at Children's also do this with one visit?

I read about Stixrud on this forum and people saying they spent thousands.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never knew they can deny a study for low IQ. If anything, these are the students who would need a lot more help, no?

Kids with low average IQs (and no other disability) often struggle because the work is hard, yet they don't have a disability.

This. The low IQ is not enough on its own. There has to be a disability too.

Mom of kid with low IQ. My son got an IEP under OHI without a disability other than low IQ. He was able to graduate because of the services that the IEP provided. In MS before the IEP, the school provided specialized services without an IEP. The most important was that he was enrolled in a program to teach him to read and comprehend what he read.

How old is your son now? How is he doing now wrt work etc?

What kind of services did the school provide and which school system?

He went to MCPS. (All my kids did and another one had an IEP for completely different reasons). In addition to his home school he went to Thomas Edison and learned a trade. From there he went to MC (on full scholarship) where he earned a certificate in his trade - no degree because he didn’t have the capabilities to pass the tests but could demonstrate the skills.

Now he works for the county. He’s since gotten a commercial driver’s license which was no small feat. I had to work a lot with him to accomplish that and it took longer than it takes most people but he did it.

In middle school he got put into Read 180 which is a program that teaches comprehension skills. I supplemented that with private services addressing the same thing and some additional language related skills that he was missing.

In HS the most important services were case management related. One of the services was to notify me of any assignment over a certain point value (basically any amount that would or could result in a grade F for the quarter). This was in lieu of extra time because extra time just resulted in a snowball effect. They also had to chunk those assignments and have interim due dates with feedback. And of
Course he had resource which got the same information as I did so there were a lot is us keeping him on track. You can probably guess that he D’d out of HS but this enabled him to get a diploma and become a successful adult.

I'm here. Thank you for sharing this. I can only hope my DC can be a successful adult too.

Is Resource a class only for kids with IEP? What do they teach in that? Is it an extra elective? Can I ask for that if my kid doesn't have an IEP? Is Read 180 instead of the usual English class? How does it differ?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never knew they can deny a study for low IQ. If anything, these are the students who would need a lot more help, no?

Kids with low average IQs (and no other disability) often struggle because the work is hard, yet they don't have a disability.

This. The low IQ is not enough on its own. There has to be a disability too.

Mom of kid with low IQ. My son got an IEP under OHI without a disability other than low IQ. He was able to graduate because of the services that the IEP provided. In MS before the IEP, the school provided specialized services without an IEP. The most important was that he was enrolled in a program to teach him to read and comprehend what he read.

How old is your son now? How is he doing now wrt work etc?

What kind of services did the school provide and which school system?

He went to MCPS. (All my kids did and another one had an IEP for completely different reasons). In addition to his home school he went to Thomas Edison and learned a trade. From there he went to MC (on full scholarship) where he earned a certificate in his trade - no degree because he didn’t have the capabilities to pass the tests but could demonstrate the skills.

Now he works for the county. He’s since gotten a commercial driver’s license which was no small feat. I had to work a lot with him to accomplish that and it took longer than it takes most people but he did it.

In middle school he got put into Read 180 which is a program that teaches comprehension skills. I supplemented that with private services addressing the same thing and some additional language related skills that he was missing.

In HS the most important services were case management related. One of the services was to notify me of any assignment over a certain point value (basically any amount that would or could result in a grade F for the quarter). This was in lieu of extra time because extra time just resulted in a snowball effect. They also had to chunk those assignments and have interim due dates with feedback. And of
Course he had resource which got the same information as I did so there were a lot is us keeping him on track. You can probably guess that he D’d out of HS but this enabled him to get a diploma and become a successful adult.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never knew they can deny a study for low IQ. If anything, these are the students who would need a lot more help, no?

Kids with low average IQs (and no other disability) often struggle because the work is hard, yet they don't have a disability.

Op here. They never tested for ADHD saying DC does not exhibit any traits in school. I had asked for that. If ADHD was identified would that have made a difference?

Yes. A student can get an IEP under other health impairment if they have ADHD that is impacting their ability to access the curriculum such that they require specialized instruction.

It would only have made a difference IF specialized instruction were necessary. OP, you can test for that on your own and provide the results to the school. Your pediatrician can do it.

OP here. What tests can the pediatrician do?

A Conners or Vanderbilt.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never knew they can deny a study for low IQ. If anything, these are the students who would need a lot more help, no?

Yes it’s so hard. The students are performing within their cognitive abilities. This is a hard group it situation to be in. The student can get general education support or support from MTSS.

Specific learning disability requires a processing deficit and below grade level academic achievement.

Processing deficit is not part of the SLD definition.

Yes it is. If this child were in Fairfax County, they wouldn’t get past the Basis for Committee Decision because they couldn’t account for any processing issues. You’d go down the list of language processes that impact learning, and you wouldn’t be able to say yes to any of them None of the test results show that there is a processing disorder. If you were provide specialized instruction to this student, you wouldn’t know how to tailor it because all the testing results are showing that the child is able to process information appropriately. You would have to check NO on the third question which would mean the student is not eligible under the Specific Learning Disability category.

https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/forms/se10i.pdf

Here’s the definition:
DEFINITION: Specific learning disability means a disorder in one or more of the basic psychological processes involved in understanding or in using language, spoken or written, that may manifest itself in an imperfect ability to listen, think, speak, read, write, spell, or do mathematical calculations.

That has nothing to do with processing as measured on an IQ test. Same word, different meaning.

Yes it does! The student was administered an assessment of their processing abilities. It’s right here. Please tell me where OP’s kid shows a below average in any of the processing areas:
Index/Subtest Index/Scaled Score Percentile Rank 95% Confidence Interval Qualitative Description
Verbal Comprehension 100 50 92-108 Average
Similarities 11 63
Vocabulary 9 37
Visual Spatial 92 30 85-100 Average
Block Design 7 16
Visual Puzzles 10 50
Fluid Reasoning 88 21 82-96 Low Average
Matrix Reasoning 11 63
Figure Weights 5 5
Working Memory 91 27 84-99 Average
Digit Span 9 37
Picture Span 8 25
Processing Speed 86 18 79-97 Low Average
Coding 11 63
Symbol Search 4 2
Full Scale IQ 93 32 88-99 Average

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never knew they can deny a study for low IQ. If anything, these are the students who would need a lot more help, no?

Kids with low average IQs (and no other disability) often struggle because the work is hard, yet they don't have a disability.

This. The low IQ is not enough on its own. There has to be a disability too.

Mom of kid with low IQ. My son got an IEP under OHI without a disability other than low IQ. He was able to graduate because of the services that the IEP provided. In MS before the IEP, the school provided specialized services without an IEP. The most important was that he was enrolled in a program to teach him to read and comprehend what he read.

How old is your son now? How is he doing now wrt work etc?

What kind of services did the school provide and which school system?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never knew they can deny a study for low IQ. If anything, these are the students who would need a lot more help, no?

Kids with low average IQs (and no other disability) often struggle because the work is hard, yet they don't have a disability.

Op here. They never tested for ADHD saying DC does not exhibit any traits in school. I had asked for that. If ADHD was identified would that have made a difference?

Yes. A student can get an IEP under other health impairment if they have ADHD that is impacting their ability to access the curriculum such that they require specialized instruction.

It would only have made a difference IF specialized instruction were necessary. OP, you can test for that on your own and provide the results to the school. Your pediatrician can do it.

OP here. What tests can the pediatrician do?

There are a few different methods for identifying learning disabilities. The discrepancy model does not require a processing deficit, the patterns of strengths and weaknesses model does require a processing deficit. Often, districts will have a specific method they use. So, its possible that a student would qualify in one district and not another.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never knew they can deny a study for low IQ. If anything, these are the students who would need a lot more help, no?

Yes it’s so hard. The students are performing within their cognitive abilities. This is a hard group it situation to be in. The student can get general education support or support from MTSS.

Specific learning disability requires a processing deficit and below grade level academic achievement.

Processing deficit is not part of the SLD definition.

Yes it is. If this child were in Fairfax County, they wouldn’t get past the Basis for Committee Decision because they couldn’t account for any processing issues. You’d go down the list of language processes that impact learning, and you wouldn’t be able to say yes to any of them None of the test results show that there is a processing disorder. If you were provide specialized instruction to this student, you wouldn’t know how to tailor it because all the testing results are showing that the child is able to process information appropriately. You would have to check NO on the third question which would mean the student is not eligible under the Specific Learning Disability category.

https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/forms/se10i.pdf

Here’s the definition:
DEFINITION: Specific learning disability means a disorder in one or more of the basic psychological processes involved in understanding or in using language, spoken or written, that may manifest itself in an imperfect ability to listen, think, speak, read, write, spell, or do mathematical calculations.

That has nothing to do with processing as measured on an IQ test. Same word, different meaning.