Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need a lawyer if there are assets to protect. There is a five year look back so I'd transfer assets now (this is also a good idea anyway since you don't want your mom in charge of assets when she has dementia anyway).

You are absolutely gaming the system.

if Congress did not want people to do this, they could lengthen the lookback period and if the voting public was that upset about this, they could pressure their elected officials to change the laws. Since neither of those things have happened this is like taking advantage of a tax deduction that you don't "need" but qualify for. Do you think it is gaming the system to move to Virginia when your kid is 13 so they can go to UVA and pay in-state tuition five years later? It is pretty much the same thing.

Living to va at 13 establishes residency. Different.

Transferring assets establishes medicaid eligibility after five years. How is that different? When rich people get in state tuition for UVA because they moved to VA do you say they gamed the system?

If you move to a state for college you are still paying the instate rate. It’s your home.

Think the person is trying to point out that folks applying for Medicaid LTC care are not necessarily gaming system.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need a lawyer if there are assets to protect. There is a five year look back so I'd transfer assets now (this is also a good idea anyway since you don't want your mom in charge of assets when she has dementia anyway).

You are absolutely gaming the system.

if Congress did not want people to do this, they could lengthen the lookback period and if the voting public was that upset about this, they could pressure their elected officials to change the laws. Since neither of those things have happened this is like taking advantage of a tax deduction that you don't "need" but qualify for. Do you think it is gaming the system to move to Virginia when your kid is 13 so they can go to UVA and pay in-state tuition five years later? It is pretty much the same thing.

Living to va at 13 establishes residency. Different.

Transferring assets establishes medicaid eligibility after five years. How is that different? When rich people get in state tuition for UVA because they moved to VA do you say they gamed the system?

If you move to a state for college you are still paying the instate rate. It’s your home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need a lawyer if there are assets to protect. There is a five year look back so I'd transfer assets now (this is also a good idea anyway since you don't want your mom in charge of assets when she has dementia anyway).

You are absolutely gaming the system.

if Congress did not want people to do this, they could lengthen the lookback period and if the voting public was that upset about this, they could pressure their elected officials to change the laws. Since neither of those things have happened this is like taking advantage of a tax deduction that you don't "need" but qualify for. Do you think it is gaming the system to move to Virginia when your kid is 13 so they can go to UVA and pay in-state tuition five years later? It is pretty much the same thing.

Living to va at 13 establishes residency. Different.

Transferring assets establishes medicaid eligibility after five years. How is that different? When rich people get in state tuition for UVA because they moved to VA do you say they gamed the system?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need an attorney. You can apply for her through the county program. Long term care medicaid is a separate program from medicaid. Just call the county and ask them.

DP here. Yes, this can work, but it is not always a slam dunk. I worked with someone through my parents' county. She was good, but she wasn't a slam dunk. Our dad was denied twice, but made it through on third time because we hired a lawyer. So I learned a lot about what I needed to do but she wasn't foolproof in knowing what might be possible obstacles to a successful application.

And as per another PP, this is not an area for dabblers. I talked to many on the phone while searching for one to take on my dad's case. It was clear that I knew more than some of them - they wanted to set up all kinds of stuff even though I made it VERY clear that we were long past that phase. Finally got a great person who was worth every cent.

Why were they denied. We had no issues except proving the money was stolen, some I could prove, some not but they worked with us as the amount wasn’t much. There is no reason to get an attorney.

Denied because the assets were in excess of the community spouse threshold. The assets were below the threshold on the paperwork included in the application, but the state claimed otherwise. Remember, this is all long distance and the state agent handling the app would not take calls. When we finally hired a lawyer, it all changed. I couldn't afford a third rejection.

If your parents were over the limit, then it was appropriate you got denied till you did a spend down. Why was this a surprise?

“Over the limit” is a relative concept and precisely the reason anyone with a spouse remaining at home will be best advised by a competent attorney.

The nasty, selfish, stingy attitude I regularly see on DCUM toward elderly and sick people who have worked their lives away and denied themselves to build up something for the future and who then need a long term care facility they cannot possibly afford without leaving their spouse in penury is really appalling. We see nothing like this about the recipients of any other kind of public benefits. The elements of Medicaid planning are an integral part of the statutory and regulatory system. Medicaid planning is no different than tax planning and estate planning.

And, trust me, nobody with a realistic capacity for self pay would voluntarily put themselves or their loved ones in even a decent Medicaid facility.

You mean rich people hiding assets. Medicaid is supposed to be for someone who has no money. Same with college financial aid. There are no decent Medicaid facilities or you were very lucky. I’d rather spend every dime I had to get my loved one the care they needed if that was an option after what we dealt with but we couldn’t even afford to hire an aid and I could not physically do it anymore after several years.

It's interesting that you feel free to write about your own struggles as being worthy of understanding, but dismiss anyone else's.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need an attorney. You can apply for her through the county program. Long term care medicaid is a separate program from medicaid. Just call the county and ask them.

DP here. Yes, this can work, but it is not always a slam dunk. I worked with someone through my parents' county. She was good, but she wasn't a slam dunk. Our dad was denied twice, but made it through on third time because we hired a lawyer. So I learned a lot about what I needed to do but she wasn't foolproof in knowing what might be possible obstacles to a successful application.

And as per another PP, this is not an area for dabblers. I talked to many on the phone while searching for one to take on my dad's case. It was clear that I knew more than some of them - they wanted to set up all kinds of stuff even though I made it VERY clear that we were long past that phase. Finally got a great person who was worth every cent.

Why were they denied. We had no issues except proving the money was stolen, some I could prove, some not but they worked with us as the amount wasn’t much. There is no reason to get an attorney.

Denied because the assets were in excess of the community spouse threshold. The assets were below the threshold on the paperwork included in the application, but the state claimed otherwise. Remember, this is all long distance and the state agent handling the app would not take calls. When we finally hired a lawyer, it all changed. I couldn't afford a third rejection.

If your parents were over the limit, then it was appropriate you got denied till you did a spend down. Why was this a surprise?

“Over the limit” is a relative concept and precisely the reason anyone with a spouse remaining at home will be best advised by a competent attorney.

The nasty, selfish, stingy attitude I regularly see on DCUM toward elderly and sick people who have worked their lives away and denied themselves to build up something for the future and who then need a long term care facility they cannot possibly afford without leaving their spouse in penury is really appalling. We see nothing like this about the recipients of any other kind of public benefits. The elements of Medicaid planning are an integral part of the statutory and regulatory system. Medicaid planning is no different than tax planning and estate planning.

And, trust me, nobody with a realistic capacity for self pay would voluntarily put themselves or their loved ones in even a decent Medicaid facility.

You mean rich people hiding assets. Medicaid is supposed to be for someone who has no money. Same with college financial aid. There are no decent Medicaid facilities or you were very lucky. I’d rather spend every dime I had to get my loved one the care they needed if that was an option after what we dealt with but we couldn’t even afford to hire an aid and I could not physically do it anymore after several years.

No one is “hiding” anything with legitimate Medicaid planning; that is the ill-informed myth (promulgated even by many ignorant lawyers) that (along with people’s own insecurity and delusion that any of the taxes they pay are earmarked for anything in particular) drives so much of the cruelty toward people with legitimate care needs.

Medicaid is not “supposed to be for someone who has no money.” To the contrary, it is a complex statutory and regulatory scheme, and its benefits belong to anyone who qualifies under the specifics of that scheme, not some bigoted, distorted misapprehension thereof.

“College Financial Aid” certainly has never been for people with no money. Colleges regularly use vast discounts masquerading as “aid” to buy the business of attractive applicants who likely would choose a different school if the discount was not offered.

No argument that many Medicaid facilities are pretty poor quality. And the full pay facilities often are not much better.

There's not really such a thing as a "Medicaid facility" vs. a "private pay facility." The vast majority of nursing homes have Medicaid beds. You can private pay at any nursing home that accepts Medicaid, and many Medicaid recipients do before they qualify for Medicaid.

Are you able to say a little more about this? When we were looking to place our mom after a hospital stint where she could no longer return to living at home, I called a number of places and asked if they had Medicaid beds. One administrator said directly, "We have beds, not Medicaid beds." At the same time, however, I had heard of stories where a nursing home may take a patient who enters as private pay, but then "no longer have space" when they start applying for Medicaid. I just wanted to avoid that scenario - we knew she would private pay for at least a year or so, but Medicaid would be in the picture if she lived longer. We got lucky - we got her into a nonprofit community, which was heads and shoulders above the corporate nursing homes in the area. Their wing, which definitely felt like the Medicaid wing, was not as spiffy as some of the others, but it was bright, clean, and never ran out of supplies for residents.

I also think there can be a wide range of care/facilities from area to area. My mom was living on the small end of a mid-sized city and all the nursing homes we visited had 2 patients/room or were private, including where she lived. (My aunt and grandmother had also been in nursing homes in the same city so I had been around.) Possibly not the same in regions with not as many facilities.

Where I live (not local) there is a new facility that takes Medicaid, and all rooms are private. My parent went there for a rehab stint, they are not on Medicaid (it was a medicare stay).

Parent was just recently in another, older facility for a rehab stay and that one had both double and single rooms. I asked about it and they said they tend to place long term people in the singles and use the doubles for rehab folks. This was another medicare stay for parent.

As far as seeing an attorney-it's a smart idea and not about scamming the system. As my parent deteriorated, I actually did make an appt with an atty for planning for medicaid and the spend-down. We're normal middle class not dcum middle class, and I wanted to make sure my other parent was protected within the law of how it works. I tried to figure it out myself but it's complex and I didn't want to do anything wrong. Parent passed away before the appt so that didn't happen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need an attorney. You can apply for her through the county program. Long term care medicaid is a separate program from medicaid. Just call the county and ask them.

DP here. Yes, this can work, but it is not always a slam dunk. I worked with someone through my parents' county. She was good, but she wasn't a slam dunk. Our dad was denied twice, but made it through on third time because we hired a lawyer. So I learned a lot about what I needed to do but she wasn't foolproof in knowing what might be possible obstacles to a successful application.

And as per another PP, this is not an area for dabblers. I talked to many on the phone while searching for one to take on my dad's case. It was clear that I knew more than some of them - they wanted to set up all kinds of stuff even though I made it VERY clear that we were long past that phase. Finally got a great person who was worth every cent.

Why were they denied. We had no issues except proving the money was stolen, some I could prove, some not but they worked with us as the amount wasn’t much. There is no reason to get an attorney.

Denied because the assets were in excess of the community spouse threshold. The assets were below the threshold on the paperwork included in the application, but the state claimed otherwise. Remember, this is all long distance and the state agent handling the app would not take calls. When we finally hired a lawyer, it all changed. I couldn't afford a third rejection.

If your parents were over the limit, then it was appropriate you got denied till you did a spend down. Why was this a surprise?

“Over the limit” is a relative concept and precisely the reason anyone with a spouse remaining at home will be best advised by a competent attorney.

The nasty, selfish, stingy attitude I regularly see on DCUM toward elderly and sick people who have worked their lives away and denied themselves to build up something for the future and who then need a long term care facility they cannot possibly afford without leaving their spouse in penury is really appalling. We see nothing like this about the recipients of any other kind of public benefits. The elements of Medicaid planning are an integral part of the statutory and regulatory system. Medicaid planning is no different than tax planning and estate planning.

And, trust me, nobody with a realistic capacity for self pay would voluntarily put themselves or their loved ones in even a decent Medicaid facility.

You mean rich people hiding assets. Medicaid is supposed to be for someone who has no money. Same with college financial aid. There are no decent Medicaid facilities or you were very lucky. I’d rather spend every dime I had to get my loved one the care they needed if that was an option after what we dealt with but we couldn’t even afford to hire an aid and I could not physically do it anymore after several years.

No one is “hiding” anything with legitimate Medicaid planning; that is the ill-informed myth (promulgated even by many ignorant lawyers) that (along with people’s own insecurity and delusion that any of the taxes they pay are earmarked for anything in particular) drives so much of the cruelty toward people with legitimate care needs.

Medicaid is not “supposed to be for someone who has no money.” To the contrary, it is a complex statutory and regulatory scheme, and its benefits belong to anyone who qualifies under the specifics of that scheme, not some bigoted, distorted misapprehension thereof.

“College Financial Aid” certainly has never been for people with no money. Colleges regularly use vast discounts masquerading as “aid” to buy the business of attractive applicants who likely would choose a different school if the discount was not offered.

No argument that many Medicaid facilities are pretty poor quality. And the full pay facilities often are not much better.

There's not really such a thing as a "Medicaid facility" vs. a "private pay facility." The vast majority of nursing homes have Medicaid beds. You can private pay at any nursing home that accepts Medicaid, and many Medicaid recipients do before they qualify for Medicaid.

First of all, your reference to “the vast majority” admits that there are some places not included.

Secondly, whether you call it a “facility” or a “bed,” private pay people and even Medicare people get treated better than Medicaid people, as a general rule. An example would be in a facility with predominately double occupancy, Medicaid patients somehow magically end up three to a room.

The actual staff don’t know whose on mecicaid and Medicare is rehab so a different part of most facilities.

If you think the “actual staff” don’t know everything going on the facility and then some, you don’t know much about nursing homes. And even if they don’t, the room assignment people certainly do, and act accordingly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need a lawyer if there are assets to protect. There is a five year look back so I'd transfer assets now (this is also a good idea anyway since you don't want your mom in charge of assets when she has dementia anyway).

You are absolutely gaming the system.

if Congress did not want people to do this, they could lengthen the lookback period and if the voting public was that upset about this, they could pressure their elected officials to change the laws. Since neither of those things have happened this is like taking advantage of a tax deduction that you don't "need" but qualify for. Do you think it is gaming the system to move to Virginia when your kid is 13 so they can go to UVA and pay in-state tuition five years later? It is pretty much the same thing.

Living to va at 13 establishes residency. Different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need an attorney. You can apply for her through the county program. Long term care medicaid is a separate program from medicaid. Just call the county and ask them.

DP here. Yes, this can work, but it is not always a slam dunk. I worked with someone through my parents' county. She was good, but she wasn't a slam dunk. Our dad was denied twice, but made it through on third time because we hired a lawyer. So I learned a lot about what I needed to do but she wasn't foolproof in knowing what might be possible obstacles to a successful application.

And as per another PP, this is not an area for dabblers. I talked to many on the phone while searching for one to take on my dad's case. It was clear that I knew more than some of them - they wanted to set up all kinds of stuff even though I made it VERY clear that we were long past that phase. Finally got a great person who was worth every cent.

Why were they denied. We had no issues except proving the money was stolen, some I could prove, some not but they worked with us as the amount wasn’t much. There is no reason to get an attorney.

Denied because the assets were in excess of the community spouse threshold. The assets were below the threshold on the paperwork included in the application, but the state claimed otherwise. Remember, this is all long distance and the state agent handling the app would not take calls. When we finally hired a lawyer, it all changed. I couldn't afford a third rejection.

If your parents were over the limit, then it was appropriate you got denied till you did a spend down. Why was this a surprise?

“Over the limit” is a relative concept and precisely the reason anyone with a spouse remaining at home will be best advised by a competent attorney.

The nasty, selfish, stingy attitude I regularly see on DCUM toward elderly and sick people who have worked their lives away and denied themselves to build up something for the future and who then need a long term care facility they cannot possibly afford without leaving their spouse in penury is really appalling. We see nothing like this about the recipients of any other kind of public benefits. The elements of Medicaid planning are an integral part of the statutory and regulatory system. Medicaid planning is no different than tax planning and estate planning.

And, trust me, nobody with a realistic capacity for self pay would voluntarily put themselves or their loved ones in even a decent Medicaid facility.

You mean rich people hiding assets. Medicaid is supposed to be for someone who has no money. Same with college financial aid. There are no decent Medicaid facilities or you were very lucky. I’d rather spend every dime I had to get my loved one the care they needed if that was an option after what we dealt with but we couldn’t even afford to hire an aid and I could not physically do it anymore after several years.

No one is “hiding” anything with legitimate Medicaid planning; that is the ill-informed myth (promulgated even by many ignorant lawyers) that (along with people’s own insecurity and delusion that any of the taxes they pay are earmarked for anything in particular) drives so much of the cruelty toward people with legitimate care needs.

Medicaid is not “supposed to be for someone who has no money.” To the contrary, it is a complex statutory and regulatory scheme, and its benefits belong to anyone who qualifies under the specifics of that scheme, not some bigoted, distorted misapprehension thereof.

“College Financial Aid” certainly has never been for people with no money. Colleges regularly use vast discounts masquerading as “aid” to buy the business of attractive applicants who likely would choose a different school if the discount was not offered.

No argument that many Medicaid facilities are pretty poor quality. And the full pay facilities often are not much better.

There's not really such a thing as a "Medicaid facility" vs. a "private pay facility." The vast majority of nursing homes have Medicaid beds. You can private pay at any nursing home that accepts Medicaid, and many Medicaid recipients do before they qualify for Medicaid.

First of all, your reference to “the vast majority” admits that there are some places not included.

Secondly, whether you call it a “facility” or a “bed,” private pay people and even Medicare people get treated better than Medicaid people, as a general rule. An example would be in a facility with predominately double occupancy, Medicaid patients somehow magically end up three to a room.

The actual staff don’t know whose on mecicaid and Medicare is rehab so a different part of most facilities.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need an attorney. You can apply for her through the county program. Long term care medicaid is a separate program from medicaid. Just call the county and ask them.

DP here. Yes, this can work, but it is not always a slam dunk. I worked with someone through my parents' county. She was good, but she wasn't a slam dunk. Our dad was denied twice, but made it through on third time because we hired a lawyer. So I learned a lot about what I needed to do but she wasn't foolproof in knowing what might be possible obstacles to a successful application.

And as per another PP, this is not an area for dabblers. I talked to many on the phone while searching for one to take on my dad's case. It was clear that I knew more than some of them - they wanted to set up all kinds of stuff even though I made it VERY clear that we were long past that phase. Finally got a great person who was worth every cent.

Why were they denied. We had no issues except proving the money was stolen, some I could prove, some not but they worked with us as the amount wasn’t much. There is no reason to get an attorney.

Denied because the assets were in excess of the community spouse threshold. The assets were below the threshold on the paperwork included in the application, but the state claimed otherwise. Remember, this is all long distance and the state agent handling the app would not take calls. When we finally hired a lawyer, it all changed. I couldn't afford a third rejection.

If your parents were over the limit, then it was appropriate you got denied till you did a spend down. Why was this a surprise?

“Over the limit” is a relative concept and precisely the reason anyone with a spouse remaining at home will be best advised by a competent attorney.

The nasty, selfish, stingy attitude I regularly see on DCUM toward elderly and sick people who have worked their lives away and denied themselves to build up something for the future and who then need a long term care facility they cannot possibly afford without leaving their spouse in penury is really appalling. We see nothing like this about the recipients of any other kind of public benefits. The elements of Medicaid planning are an integral part of the statutory and regulatory system. Medicaid planning is no different than tax planning and estate planning.

And, trust me, nobody with a realistic capacity for self pay would voluntarily put themselves or their loved ones in even a decent Medicaid facility.

You mean rich people hiding assets. Medicaid is supposed to be for someone who has no money. Same with college financial aid. There are no decent Medicaid facilities or you were very lucky. I’d rather spend every dime I had to get my loved one the care they needed if that was an option after what we dealt with but we couldn’t even afford to hire an aid and I could not physically do it anymore after several years.

No one is “hiding” anything with legitimate Medicaid planning; that is the ill-informed myth (promulgated even by many ignorant lawyers) that (along with people’s own insecurity and delusion that any of the taxes they pay are earmarked for anything in particular) drives so much of the cruelty toward people with legitimate care needs.

Medicaid is not “supposed to be for someone who has no money.” To the contrary, it is a complex statutory and regulatory scheme, and its benefits belong to anyone who qualifies under the specifics of that scheme, not some bigoted, distorted misapprehension thereof.

“College Financial Aid” certainly has never been for people with no money. Colleges regularly use vast discounts masquerading as “aid” to buy the business of attractive applicants who likely would choose a different school if the discount was not offered.

No argument that many Medicaid facilities are pretty poor quality. And the full pay facilities often are not much better.

There's not really such a thing as a "Medicaid facility" vs. a "private pay facility." The vast majority of nursing homes have Medicaid beds. You can private pay at any nursing home that accepts Medicaid, and many Medicaid recipients do before they qualify for Medicaid.

First of all, your reference to “the vast majority” admits that there are some places not included.

Secondly, whether you call it a “facility” or a “bed,” private pay people and even Medicare people get treated better than Medicaid people, as a general rule. An example would be in a facility with predominately double occupancy, Medicaid patients somehow magically end up three to a room.

It really depends on the place. My grandmother had a private room even though she was on Medicaid. I think when some people think about a non-Medicaid facility, they are thinking about assisted living, which can be fancier but not necessarily better.

Mine has a private room too but she was the only one. She was difficult and at the time they had one open and agreed. Most are 3-4 to a room. It does vary. Our facility started off good but declined over the years with a huge remodel and change in leadership and staff.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need an attorney. You can apply for her through the county program. Long term care medicaid is a separate program from medicaid. Just call the county and ask them.

DP here. Yes, this can work, but it is not always a slam dunk. I worked with someone through my parents' county. She was good, but she wasn't a slam dunk. Our dad was denied twice, but made it through on third time because we hired a lawyer. So I learned a lot about what I needed to do but she wasn't foolproof in knowing what might be possible obstacles to a successful application.

And as per another PP, this is not an area for dabblers. I talked to many on the phone while searching for one to take on my dad's case. It was clear that I knew more than some of them - they wanted to set up all kinds of stuff even though I made it VERY clear that we were long past that phase. Finally got a great person who was worth every cent.

Why were they denied. We had no issues except proving the money was stolen, some I could prove, some not but they worked with us as the amount wasn’t much. There is no reason to get an attorney.

Denied because the assets were in excess of the community spouse threshold. The assets were below the threshold on the paperwork included in the application, but the state claimed otherwise. Remember, this is all long distance and the state agent handling the app would not take calls. When we finally hired a lawyer, it all changed. I couldn't afford a third rejection.

If your parents were over the limit, then it was appropriate you got denied till you did a spend down. Why was this a surprise?

“Over the limit” is a relative concept and precisely the reason anyone with a spouse remaining at home will be best advised by a competent attorney.

The nasty, selfish, stingy attitude I regularly see on DCUM toward elderly and sick people who have worked their lives away and denied themselves to build up something for the future and who then need a long term care facility they cannot possibly afford without leaving their spouse in penury is really appalling. We see nothing like this about the recipients of any other kind of public benefits. The elements of Medicaid planning are an integral part of the statutory and regulatory system. Medicaid planning is no different than tax planning and estate planning.

And, trust me, nobody with a realistic capacity for self pay would voluntarily put themselves or their loved ones in even a decent Medicaid facility.

You mean rich people hiding assets. Medicaid is supposed to be for someone who has no money. Same with college financial aid. There are no decent Medicaid facilities or you were very lucky. I’d rather spend every dime I had to get my loved one the care they needed if that was an option after what we dealt with but we couldn’t even afford to hire an aid and I could not physically do it anymore after several years.

No one is “hiding” anything with legitimate Medicaid planning; that is the ill-informed myth (promulgated even by many ignorant lawyers) that (along with people’s own insecurity and delusion that any of the taxes they pay are earmarked for anything in particular) drives so much of the cruelty toward people with legitimate care needs.

Medicaid is not “supposed to be for someone who has no money.” To the contrary, it is a complex statutory and regulatory scheme, and its benefits belong to anyone who qualifies under the specifics of that scheme, not some bigoted, distorted misapprehension thereof.

“College Financial Aid” certainly has never been for people with no money. Colleges regularly use vast discounts masquerading as “aid” to buy the business of attractive applicants who likely would choose a different school if the discount was not offered.

No argument that many Medicaid facilities are pretty poor quality. And the full pay facilities often are not much better.

There's not really such a thing as a "Medicaid facility" vs. a "private pay facility." The vast majority of nursing homes have Medicaid beds. You can private pay at any nursing home that accepts Medicaid, and many Medicaid recipients do before they qualify for Medicaid.

First of all, your reference to “the vast majority” admits that there are some places not included.

Secondly, whether you call it a “facility” or a “bed,” private pay people and even Medicare people get treated better than Medicaid people, as a general rule. An example would be in a facility with predominately double occupancy, Medicaid patients somehow magically end up three to a room.

It really depends on the place. My grandmother had a private room even though she was on Medicaid. I think when some people think about a non-Medicaid facility, they are thinking about assisted living, which can be fancier but not necessarily better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need an attorney. You can apply for her through the county program. Long term care medicaid is a separate program from medicaid. Just call the county and ask them.

DP here. Yes, this can work, but it is not always a slam dunk. I worked with someone through my parents' county. She was good, but she wasn't a slam dunk. Our dad was denied twice, but made it through on third time because we hired a lawyer. So I learned a lot about what I needed to do but she wasn't foolproof in knowing what might be possible obstacles to a successful application.

And as per another PP, this is not an area for dabblers. I talked to many on the phone while searching for one to take on my dad's case. It was clear that I knew more than some of them - they wanted to set up all kinds of stuff even though I made it VERY clear that we were long past that phase. Finally got a great person who was worth every cent.

Why were they denied. We had no issues except proving the money was stolen, some I could prove, some not but they worked with us as the amount wasn’t much. There is no reason to get an attorney.

Denied because the assets were in excess of the community spouse threshold. The assets were below the threshold on the paperwork included in the application, but the state claimed otherwise. Remember, this is all long distance and the state agent handling the app would not take calls. When we finally hired a lawyer, it all changed. I couldn't afford a third rejection.

If your parents were over the limit, then it was appropriate you got denied till you did a spend down. Why was this a surprise?

“Over the limit” is a relative concept and precisely the reason anyone with a spouse remaining at home will be best advised by a competent attorney.

The nasty, selfish, stingy attitude I regularly see on DCUM toward elderly and sick people who have worked their lives away and denied themselves to build up something for the future and who then need a long term care facility they cannot possibly afford without leaving their spouse in penury is really appalling. We see nothing like this about the recipients of any other kind of public benefits. The elements of Medicaid planning are an integral part of the statutory and regulatory system. Medicaid planning is no different than tax planning and estate planning.

And, trust me, nobody with a realistic capacity for self pay would voluntarily put themselves or their loved ones in even a decent Medicaid facility.

You mean rich people hiding assets. Medicaid is supposed to be for someone who has no money. Same with college financial aid. There are no decent Medicaid facilities or you were very lucky. I’d rather spend every dime I had to get my loved one the care they needed if that was an option after what we dealt with but we couldn’t even afford to hire an aid and I could not physically do it anymore after several years.

No one is “hiding” anything with legitimate Medicaid planning; that is the ill-informed myth (promulgated even by many ignorant lawyers) that (along with people’s own insecurity and delusion that any of the taxes they pay are earmarked for anything in particular) drives so much of the cruelty toward people with legitimate care needs.

Medicaid is not “supposed to be for someone who has no money.” To the contrary, it is a complex statutory and regulatory scheme, and its benefits belong to anyone who qualifies under the specifics of that scheme, not some bigoted, distorted misapprehension thereof.

“College Financial Aid” certainly has never been for people with no money. Colleges regularly use vast discounts masquerading as “aid” to buy the business of attractive applicants who likely would choose a different school if the discount was not offered.

No argument that many Medicaid facilities are pretty poor quality. And the full pay facilities often are not much better.

There's not really such a thing as a "Medicaid facility" vs. a "private pay facility." The vast majority of nursing homes have Medicaid beds. You can private pay at any nursing home that accepts Medicaid, and many Medicaid recipients do before they qualify for Medicaid.

First of all, your reference to “the vast majority” admits that there are some places not included.

Secondly, whether you call it a “facility” or a “bed,” private pay people and even Medicare people get treated better than Medicaid people, as a general rule. An example would be in a facility with predominately double occupancy, Medicaid patients somehow magically end up three to a room.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need a lawyer if there are assets to protect. There is a five year look back so I'd transfer assets now (this is also a good idea anyway since you don't want your mom in charge of assets when she has dementia anyway).

You are absolutely gaming the system.

if Congress did not want people to do this, they could lengthen the lookback period and if the voting public was that upset about this, they could pressure their elected officials to change the laws. Since neither of those things have happened this is like taking advantage of a tax deduction that you don't "need" but qualify for. Do you think it is gaming the system to move to Virginia when your kid is 13 so they can go to UVA and pay in-state tuition five years later? It is pretty much the same thing.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need an attorney. You can apply for her through the county program. Long term care medicaid is a separate program from medicaid. Just call the county and ask them.

DP here. Yes, this can work, but it is not always a slam dunk. I worked with someone through my parents' county. She was good, but she wasn't a slam dunk. Our dad was denied twice, but made it through on third time because we hired a lawyer. So I learned a lot about what I needed to do but she wasn't foolproof in knowing what might be possible obstacles to a successful application.

And as per another PP, this is not an area for dabblers. I talked to many on the phone while searching for one to take on my dad's case. It was clear that I knew more than some of them - they wanted to set up all kinds of stuff even though I made it VERY clear that we were long past that phase. Finally got a great person who was worth every cent.

Why were they denied. We had no issues except proving the money was stolen, some I could prove, some not but they worked with us as the amount wasn’t much. There is no reason to get an attorney.

Denied because the assets were in excess of the community spouse threshold. The assets were below the threshold on the paperwork included in the application, but the state claimed otherwise. Remember, this is all long distance and the state agent handling the app would not take calls. When we finally hired a lawyer, it all changed. I couldn't afford a third rejection.

If your parents were over the limit, then it was appropriate you got denied till you did a spend down. Why was this a surprise?

“Over the limit” is a relative concept and precisely the reason anyone with a spouse remaining at home will be best advised by a competent attorney.

The nasty, selfish, stingy attitude I regularly see on DCUM toward elderly and sick people who have worked their lives away and denied themselves to build up something for the future and who then need a long term care facility they cannot possibly afford without leaving their spouse in penury is really appalling. We see nothing like this about the recipients of any other kind of public benefits. The elements of Medicaid planning are an integral part of the statutory and regulatory system. Medicaid planning is no different than tax planning and estate planning.

And, trust me, nobody with a realistic capacity for self pay would voluntarily put themselves or their loved ones in even a decent Medicaid facility.

You mean rich people hiding assets. Medicaid is supposed to be for someone who has no money. Same with college financial aid. There are no decent Medicaid facilities or you were very lucky. I’d rather spend every dime I had to get my loved one the care they needed if that was an option after what we dealt with but we couldn’t even afford to hire an aid and I could not physically do it anymore after several years.

No one is “hiding” anything with legitimate Medicaid planning; that is the ill-informed myth (promulgated even by many ignorant lawyers) that (along with people’s own insecurity and delusion that any of the taxes they pay are earmarked for anything in particular) drives so much of the cruelty toward people with legitimate care needs.

Medicaid is not “supposed to be for someone who has no money.” To the contrary, it is a complex statutory and regulatory scheme, and its benefits belong to anyone who qualifies under the specifics of that scheme, not some bigoted, distorted misapprehension thereof.

“College Financial Aid” certainly has never been for people with no money. Colleges regularly use vast discounts masquerading as “aid” to buy the business of attractive applicants who likely would choose a different school if the discount was not offered.

No argument that many Medicaid facilities are pretty poor quality. And the full pay facilities often are not much better.

There's not really such a thing as a "Medicaid facility" vs. a "private pay facility." The vast majority of nursing homes have Medicaid beds. You can private pay at any nursing home that accepts Medicaid, and many Medicaid recipients do before they qualify for Medicaid.