Anonymous
Post 04/08/2024 17:24     Subject: Seattle schools end gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's because if you look at the actual curriculum of places like Seattle Country Day and Evergreen, they aren't even very accelerated. They bill themselves as "inquiry-based" but at the end of the day they aren't utilizing the full potential of these kids. It's still just a generic curriculum with some deep questions here and there. There's an also a large concentration of twice exceptional kids in these schools with issues like ADHD, screen addiction, etc. So it's not surprising that come high school and college applications, these kids aren't doing that much more amazing than the public school HC cohorts.


Accurate statement and I can't disagree.

The 2e situation is a big one in Seattle and it affects both public HC and independent school cohorts. This goes beyond Evergreen, SCDS and UCDS, all of which are known to be welcoming to 2e kids. All Prek-8/prek-5 independent schools here have disproportionate numbers of 2e students because they often advertise more individualized instruction and smaller class sizes. Ones with preschool 5s classes are especially known for accommodating 2e kids.

Bush is the only k-12 (and King's, but that's in Shoreline and a different beast entirely) so for the vast majority of independent schools, kids are graduating and moving on to a 6-12 or a HS before they'd get to a point where they were so socially or academically out of step that they needed to be counseled out as they would in other cities. Seattle is also a very neurodiverse city (not to bring more assortative mating stuff into the conversation) and that impacts schools, families, and culture/expectations.

That's a good point that there isn't a lot of K-12 schools. It's crazy the number of kids in Seattle who are 2e, it's practically almost every other kid. Some mask it very well in the lower grades because they are naturally smart, but the social and attention deficits start to become more apparent by high school and college. Maybe this explains why the college matriculation lists are lackluster outside tiny Lakeside. One of the arguments for schools like SCDS and Evergreen is to develop the SEL for these kids rather than purely pushing more academics; have them work more on executive functioning and basic social skills. But my impression is that you just can't teach these things in schools. It takes years and years of modeling, and that becomes even harder when you are surrounded by similar neurodiverse kids in the school and in playdates.

Maybe the parochial schools (Seattle Prep, etc) are the way to go to avoid the rat race to nowhere in Seattle.
Anonymous
Post 04/08/2024 16:43     Subject: Re:Seattle schools end gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:Here is another article on the same move by Seattle’s school system:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13266205/Seattle-closes-gifted-talented-schools-racial-inequities.html

This appears to be an equity-driven attempt to close the achievement gap from the top-down.


Great - and make bright kids hate school because the regular classroom is torture? This makes me sad for Seattle kids...
Anonymous
Post 04/08/2024 16:42     Subject: Seattle schools end gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:It's because if you look at the actual curriculum of places like Seattle Country Day and Evergreen, they aren't even very accelerated. They bill themselves as "inquiry-based" but at the end of the day they aren't utilizing the full potential of these kids. It's still just a generic curriculum with some deep questions here and there. There's an also a large concentration of twice exceptional kids in these schools with issues like ADHD, screen addiction, etc. So it's not surprising that come high school and college applications, these kids aren't doing that much more amazing than the public school HC cohorts.


Accurate statement and I can't disagree.

The 2e situation is a big one in Seattle and it affects both public HC and independent school cohorts. This goes beyond Evergreen, SCDS and UCDS, all of which are known to be welcoming to 2e kids. All Prek-8/prek-5 independent schools here have disproportionate numbers of 2e students because they often advertise more individualized instruction and smaller class sizes. Ones with preschool 5s classes are especially known for accommodating 2e kids.

Bush is the only k-12 (and King's, but that's in Shoreline and a different beast entirely) so for the vast majority of independent schools, kids are graduating and moving on to a 6-12 or a HS before they'd get to a point where they were so socially or academically out of step that they needed to be counseled out as they would in other cities. Seattle is also a very neurodiverse city (not to bring more assortative mating stuff into the conversation) and that impacts schools, families, and culture/expectations.
Anonymous
Post 04/08/2024 16:33     Subject: Seattle schools end gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Seattle private schools are increasingly hard to get into because of changes with not only SPS but also Eastside school districts.

My kids’ kindergarten class had ten applicants for one seat.


Evergreen, UCDS, SCDS or Bush?


Evergreen. Interestingly all the private schools in Seattle are rather mediocre, with exception of Lakeside although I think it’s becoming more mediocre with the new HOS and his DEI focus. All these schools take some of the smartest and affluent population of kids (some like SCDS and Evergreen with high IQ test cut offs) and don’t do much with them. These are kids whose parents went to Ivies and MIT and after 13 years of private school, a majority of them could barely muster UW.

Until the recent SPS changes to advanced learning, it was actually the public schools that had some of the most accelerated curriculum and that is still true on the Eastside.




Part of this has to do with regression to the mean and the age when IQ tests are conducted. If both parents have an IQ of 120, the children on average will only have an IQ or 112. Cognitive test results are also not very stable until the preteen years. Once kids are in the 10-13 range IQ test results are tightly correlated with adult scores. However, a group of 5-6 year olds that test as gifted will include a lot of kids that turn out relatively average as a teenager or adult.


Maybe. Regression to the mean is probably less common with assortative mating like we have going on in Seattle where both working parents are working in same field requiring similar IQs. In any case, it's disappointing seeing years of intensive private schooling catering to the "gifted students" like SCDS and Evergreen (cutoffs at 95-97th percentile, but they are largely accepting 99th percentile students) not contributing significantly much. Something seems off. Maybe these schools are actually counter-productive and inhibiting social skills and growth.


A lot of Evergreen and SCDS kids and families are what we would call "weird" when I was growing up. It's a small self-selecting group that is deliberately chasing a unique kind of school. I think it speaks to the many kinds of giftedness and where giftedness does and does not intersect with stereotypical definitions of success.

Most of the "intelligent" and successful people I know in Seattle do have inhibited social skills. They succeed in Seattle and its specific corporate landscape but they would and have flailed in many other cities. When we encounter really interesting, capable transplants here, I am always a little sad because I know they'll move back to wherever they came from in a few years.
Anonymous
Post 04/08/2024 15:10     Subject: Seattle schools end gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t work and the achievement gap doesn’t close.

The result is this: rich parents send their kids to private school, some middle income families stretch themselves to go to private and the rest stay in public and continue to succeed and it’s even easier bc the bar is now a little lower. Low income, ESL, and all other students who were very behind continue to be get left behind and the achievement gap doesn’t get any closer to closing …

If schools were serious about closing achievement gaps they would poor resources and money into teaching kids phonics and then screening for dyslexia and providing the appropriate remediation. A kid being able to read at grade level every year consistently would do more to close the achievement gap than any equity initiative ever will ….


I don’t see how we get appropriate remediation in public school for dyslexia.
Wilson is the gold standard and requires 30 mins , 3 times a week, 1 on 1. Now understand that approximately 10-20% of the student population in the US needs that.
We are not prepared to do what it takes for that. And our scores and performance will always reflect that.


Fortunately that's false. Approximately 2-5% of people are dyslexic and many of them figure out their own way to read.
Anonymous
Post 04/08/2024 11:52     Subject: Seattle schools end gifted and talented program
It's because if you look at the actual curriculum of places like Seattle Country Day and Evergreen, they aren't even very accelerated. They bill themselves as "inquiry-based" but at the end of the day they aren't utilizing the full potential of these kids. It's still just a generic curriculum with some deep questions here and there. There's a also a large concentration of twice exceptional kids in these schools with issues like ADHD, screen addiction, etc. So it's not surprising that come high school and college applications, these kids aren't doing that much more amazing than the public school HC cohorts.
Anonymous
Post 04/08/2024 11:44     Subject: Seattle schools end gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Seattle private schools are increasingly hard to get into because of changes with not only SPS but also Eastside school districts.

My kids’ kindergarten class had ten applicants for one seat.


Evergreen, UCDS, SCDS or Bush?


Evergreen. Interestingly all the private schools in Seattle are rather mediocre, with exception of Lakeside although I think it’s becoming more mediocre with the new HOS and his DEI focus. All these schools take some of the smartest and affluent population of kids (some like SCDS and Evergreen with high IQ test cut offs) and don’t do much with them. These are kids whose parents went to Ivies and MIT and after 13 years of private school, a majority of them could barely muster UW.

Until the recent SPS changes to advanced learning, it was actually the public schools that had some of the most accelerated curriculum and that is still true on the Eastside.




Part of this has to do with regression to the mean and the age when IQ tests are conducted. If both parents have an IQ of 120, the children on average will only have an IQ or 112. Cognitive test results are also not very stable until the preteen years. Once kids are in the 10-13 range IQ test results are tightly correlated with adult scores. However, a group of 5-6 year olds that test as gifted will include a lot of kids that turn out relatively average as a teenager or adult.


Maybe. Regression to the mean is probably less common with assortative mating like we have going on in Seattle where both working parents are working in same field requiring similar IQs. In any case, it's disappointing seeing years of intensive private schooling catering to the "gifted students" like SCDS and Evergreen (cutoffs at 95-97th percentile, but they are largely accepting 99th percentile students) not contributing significantly much. Something seems off. Maybe these schools are actually counter-productive and inhibiting social skills and growth.
Anonymous
Post 04/08/2024 10:19     Subject: Seattle schools end gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Seattle private schools are increasingly hard to get into because of changes with not only SPS but also Eastside school districts.

My kids’ kindergarten class had ten applicants for one seat.


Evergreen, UCDS, SCDS or Bush?


Evergreen. Interestingly all the private schools in Seattle are rather mediocre, with exception of Lakeside although I think it’s becoming more mediocre with the new HOS and his DEI focus. All these schools take some of the smartest and affluent population of kids (some like SCDS and Evergreen with high IQ test cut offs) and don’t do much with them. These are kids whose parents went to Ivies and MIT and after 13 years of private school, a majority of them could barely muster UW.

Until the recent SPS changes to advanced learning, it was actually the public schools that had some of the most accelerated curriculum and that is still true on the Eastside.




Part of this has to do with regression to the mean and the age when IQ tests are conducted. If both parents have an IQ of 120, the children on average will only have an IQ or 112. Cognitive test results are also not very stable until the preteen years. Once kids are in the 10-13 range IQ test results are tightly correlated with adult scores. However, a group of 5-6 year olds that test as gifted will include a lot of kids that turn out relatively average as a teenager or adult.
Anonymous
Post 04/08/2024 10:08     Subject: Seattle schools end gifted and talented program
This is idiotic. The research is very clear that gifted children benefit from accelerated course materials. Vanderbilt and Duke TIP studies have decades of research to support this. Holding back the brightest minds in society will harm everyone by reducing innovation and scientific progress. People do not have equal abilities or capacity to learn and some kids are just more intelligent than others.
Anonymous
Post 04/07/2024 23:13     Subject: Seattle schools end gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t work and the achievement gap doesn’t close.

The result is this: rich parents send their kids to private school, some middle income families stretch themselves to go to private and the rest stay in public and continue to succeed and it’s even easier bc the bar is now a little lower. Low income, ESL, and all other students who were very behind continue to be get left behind and the achievement gap doesn’t get any closer to closing …

If schools were serious about closing achievement gaps they would poor resources and money into teaching kids phonics and then screening for dyslexia and providing the appropriate remediation. A kid being able to read at grade level every year consistently would do more to close the achievement gap than any equity initiative ever will ….


I don’t see how we get appropriate remediation in public school for dyslexia.
Wilson is the gold standard and requires 30 mins , 3 times a week, 1 on 1. Now understand that approximately 10-20% of the student population in the US needs that.
We are not prepared to do what it takes for that. And our scores and performance will always reflect that.
Anonymous
Post 04/07/2024 21:57     Subject: Seattle schools end gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Seattle private schools are increasingly hard to get into because of changes with not only SPS but also Eastside school districts.

My kids’ kindergarten class had ten applicants for one seat.


Evergreen, UCDS, SCDS or Bush?


Evergreen. Interestingly all the private schools in Seattle are rather mediocre, with exception of Lakeside although I think it’s becoming more mediocre with the new HOS and his DEI focus. All these schools take some of the smartest and affluent population of kids (some like SCDS and Evergreen with high IQ test cut offs) and don’t do much with them. These are kids whose parents went to Ivies and MIT and after 13 years of private school, a majority of them could barely muster UW.

Until the recent SPS changes to advanced learning, it was actually the public schools that had some of the most accelerated curriculum and that is still true on the Eastside.


So true about private schools in the Seattle area, especially Lakeside. When we moved to Seattle 15 years ago, I was startled by the private school culture (or lack thereof). Even the best private schools are more mediocre than my suburban school district back east, and none of them hold a candle to a 2nd-tier private on the east coast. Seattle was a small city for many years and has a very different culture of philanthropy and education than other cities. Its schools represent where the city was in 1985 and people are strangely accepting and even ignorant about how K-12 education is managed in the area. My theory is that the international transplants don't have sufficient experience in the US school system to know what they're missing, a lot of people are crunchy or libertarian and don't really want good schools, and the combination of no state income taxes and the impact of the McCleary act in WA state has made schools worse, not better.
Anonymous
Post 04/06/2024 23:27     Subject: Seattle schools end gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Seattle private schools are increasingly hard to get into because of changes with not only SPS but also Eastside school districts.

My kids’ kindergarten class had ten applicants for one seat.


Evergreen, UCDS, SCDS or Bush?


Evergreen. Interestingly all the private schools in Seattle are rather mediocre, with exception of Lakeside although I think it’s becoming more mediocre with the new HOS and his DEI focus. All these schools take some of the smartest and affluent population of kids (some like SCDS and Evergreen with high IQ test cut offs) and don’t do much with them. These are kids whose parents went to Ivies and MIT and after 13 years of private school, a majority of them could barely muster UW.

Until the recent SPS changes to advanced learning, it was actually the public schools that had some of the most accelerated curriculum and that is still true on the Eastside.
Anonymous
Post 04/06/2024 23:07     Subject: Seattle schools end gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Seattle private schools are increasingly hard to get into because of changes with not only SPS but also Eastside school districts.

My kids’ kindergarten class had ten applicants for one seat.


Evergreen, UCDS, SCDS or Bush? Some of those schools have always been like that for kindergarten, but experience significant attrition at 5th/6th. What's interesting is how less relevant Bush seems lately in spite of its ever-insane competitive K admissions. It's a great school on paper but weirdly mediocre in reality.


Bush is basically an alternative girl school by the time you get to the higher grades. The gender ratio gets so lopsided. I knew many families with sons who transferred out because the culture is so stifling with excessive LGBT and DEI activism. The STEM program is a joke. It’s a decent school if you want to go to a small liberal arts college and become a writer of something esoteric.
Anonymous
Post 04/06/2024 22:36     Subject: Seattle schools end gifted and talented program
It doesn’t work and the achievement gap doesn’t close.

The result is this: rich parents send their kids to private school, some middle income families stretch themselves to go to private and the rest stay in public and continue to succeed and it’s even easier bc the bar is now a little lower. Low income, ESL, and all other students who were very behind continue to be get left behind and the achievement gap doesn’t get any closer to closing …

If schools were serious about closing achievement gaps they would poor resources and money into teaching kids phonics and then screening for dyslexia and providing the appropriate remediation. A kid being able to read at grade level every year consistently would do more to close the achievement gap than any equity initiative ever will ….
Anonymous
Post 04/06/2024 22:26     Subject: Seattle schools end gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:"Here’s how they do it at View Ridge Elementary, a neighborhood school in northeast Seattle that serves all levels of students in the same classrooms.

On a recent day in a first grade classroom, seven advanced learners sat on the floor reading silently on their iPads. "

Complete dereliction of duty.


Did you see the other caption of the kindergarten class where it is structured to provide instruction to a nonverbal student. So the teacher is expected to structure lessons to a nonverbal student, students who are a little behind, student who are on grade level, students a little above grade level and students who are really advanced?

Who this really hurts are bright low income kids. Affluent parents will pay for private schools. Middle class parents will pay for outside enrichment and tutoring for their bright kids. The low income bright students get stuck on iPads all day while the teacher concentrates on the lowest performing students. Their parents can't afford enrichment or might not realize how their kids are being ignored all day. So these bright kids struggle when they go to larger secondary schools and are mixed in with higher performing kids who got outside enrichment while they were ignored all day.


This is deliberate.


How exactly?