Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing I've learned with my four-year-old is that it's easier to set the conditions for good behavior than to punish bad behavior.

When it comes to bath, getting dressed, getting in the car seat, etc., she wants to feel in control. Obviously she shouldn't be in control of these decisions, but when I give her the illusion of control she complies way better. So for example, I might ask whether she wants to have a disco bath (put the disco ball in the bathroom and listen to the Bee Gees during her bath) or a plain bath. Or I'll challenge her to see whether she can get in the bath before I count to ten (she has the choice about whether she gets in right now, or 8 seconds from now). Or (with clothes) I'll have her compete with her brother to see who can get dressed first (she always "wins" because he's a baby, and obviously he couldn't care less). It's not perfect, but it sure works a lot better than trying to punish her and turning bathtime into a war of the wills.

I’m the M&Ms poster. My kid sees right through these tactics. It’s the old “choices” tactic from gentle parenting. I’m amazed this actually works for any kids.

Meanwhile your M&M approach would never work for my kid. Or it would work for three days and then on the fourth day she'd tell me she doesn't care about M&Ms anymore (because she gets them all the time! the reward stops working because it becomes commonplace) and then I either have to ramp up the reward or come up with something else.

The tactics PP describes work better for us because I do have a really strongwilled kid who wants to assert control over things. I will say that as she's gotten older, we don't have to resort to this stuff as much because she has the ability to reason and, to some degree, negotiate. And she has more self-control. Like I remember one night where I told her to go brush her teeth and she was just complaining she was too tired and distracting herself and not doing it, and I wound up telling her to to it like 40 times. That night when I put her to bed, I sat down with her and had a conversation about how miserable it is when there's something we both know has to happen (brushing teeth is and has always been a non-negotiable) and she just fights and fights until we are both exhausted. So we made a deal: she agreed she will do something the first time I ask, and I agreed to give her 10 minutes after asking to do it. That way she doesn't have to just jump up and stop whatever she's doing to follow orders, but also I don't have to constantly remind her and ask 40 times. Usually we set a timer for the 10 minutes so if she forgets, she does it when the timer goes off and I still don't have to ask a second time. Works well for stuff like brushing teeth, shower, etc.

But she's 7 now, so this is possible. At 4, it wasn't. So yeah, we did the getting dressed races and "do you want a bubble bath or a normal bath" and that kind of thing when she was younger. It worked better than the bribes and was better than a battle everynight.

Every kid is different and what works for you might not work for someone else and vice versa. But you don't have to be a jerk about it. I'm glad you've found something that works. That doesn't mean the way someone else does it is wrong or inferior.

I think you missed my point. My bitterness is that all gentle parenting resources present these strategies as failproof. They don’t have chapters on what to do if this doesn’t work for you and don’t even address that possibility.

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Remembering to choose your battles is something I need to hear. No, she totally does not need a bath every night so it’s a good reminder to let some things go!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing I've learned with my four-year-old is that it's easier to set the conditions for good behavior than to punish bad behavior.

When it comes to bath, getting dressed, getting in the car seat, etc., she wants to feel in control. Obviously she shouldn't be in control of these decisions, but when I give her the illusion of control she complies way better. So for example, I might ask whether she wants to have a disco bath (put the disco ball in the bathroom and listen to the Bee Gees during her bath) or a plain bath. Or I'll challenge her to see whether she can get in the bath before I count to ten (she has the choice about whether she gets in right now, or 8 seconds from now). Or (with clothes) I'll have her compete with her brother to see who can get dressed first (she always "wins" because he's a baby, and obviously he couldn't care less). It's not perfect, but it sure works a lot better than trying to punish her and turning bathtime into a war of the wills.

I’m the M&Ms poster. My kid sees right through these tactics. It’s the old “choices” tactic from gentle parenting. I’m amazed this actually works for any kids.

Meanwhile your M&M approach would never work for my kid. Or it would work for three days and then on the fourth day she'd tell me she doesn't care about M&Ms anymore (because she gets them all the time! the reward stops working because it becomes commonplace) and then I either have to ramp up the reward or come up with something else.

The tactics PP describes work better for us because I do have a really strongwilled kid who wants to assert control over things. I will say that as she's gotten older, we don't have to resort to this stuff as much because she has the ability to reason and, to some degree, negotiate. And she has more self-control. Like I remember one night where I told her to go brush her teeth and she was just complaining she was too tired and distracting herself and not doing it, and I wound up telling her to to it like 40 times. That night when I put her to bed, I sat down with her and had a conversation about how miserable it is when there's something we both know has to happen (brushing teeth is and has always been a non-negotiable) and she just fights and fights until we are both exhausted. So we made a deal: she agreed she will do something the first time I ask, and I agreed to give her 10 minutes after asking to do it. That way she doesn't have to just jump up and stop whatever she's doing to follow orders, but also I don't have to constantly remind her and ask 40 times. Usually we set a timer for the 10 minutes so if she forgets, she does it when the timer goes off and I still don't have to ask a second time. Works well for stuff like brushing teeth, shower, etc.

But she's 7 now, so this is possible. At 4, it wasn't. So yeah, we did the getting dressed races and "do you want a bubble bath or a normal bath" and that kind of thing when she was younger. It worked better than the bribes and was better than a battle everynight.

Every kid is different and what works for you might not work for someone else and vice versa. But you don't have to be a jerk about it. I'm glad you've found something that works. That doesn't mean the way someone else does it is wrong or inferior.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing I've learned with my four-year-old is that it's easier to set the conditions for good behavior than to punish bad behavior.

When it comes to bath, getting dressed, getting in the car seat, etc., she wants to feel in control. Obviously she shouldn't be in control of these decisions, but when I give her the illusion of control she complies way better. So for example, I might ask whether she wants to have a disco bath (put the disco ball in the bathroom and listen to the Bee Gees during her bath) or a plain bath. Or I'll challenge her to see whether she can get in the bath before I count to ten (she has the choice about whether she gets in right now, or 8 seconds from now). Or (with clothes) I'll have her compete with her brother to see who can get dressed first (she always "wins" because he's a baby, and obviously he couldn't care less). It's not perfect, but it sure works a lot better than trying to punish her and turning bathtime into a war of the wills.

I’m the M&Ms poster. My kid sees right through these tactics. It’s the old “choices” tactic from gentle parenting. I’m amazed this actually works for any kids.

It does work, but they have to know the main thing is non-negotiable. The choice is just an optional control lifeline. It’s not for convincing them to do the thing, it’s just like a control frustration off ramp. They don’t take it every time.

It does work…for you. It has never worked once for me. I tried this consistently for a year. She never picked one of the offered choices.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing I've learned with my four-year-old is that it's easier to set the conditions for good behavior than to punish bad behavior.

When it comes to bath, getting dressed, getting in the car seat, etc., she wants to feel in control. Obviously she shouldn't be in control of these decisions, but when I give her the illusion of control she complies way better. So for example, I might ask whether she wants to have a disco bath (put the disco ball in the bathroom and listen to the Bee Gees during her bath) or a plain bath. Or I'll challenge her to see whether she can get in the bath before I count to ten (she has the choice about whether she gets in right now, or 8 seconds from now). Or (with clothes) I'll have her compete with her brother to see who can get dressed first (she always "wins" because he's a baby, and obviously he couldn't care less). It's not perfect, but it sure works a lot better than trying to punish her and turning bathtime into a war of the wills.

I’m the M&Ms poster. My kid sees right through these tactics. It’s the old “choices” tactic from gentle parenting. I’m amazed this actually works for any kids.

It does work, but they have to know the main thing is non-negotiable. The choice is just an optional control lifeline. It’s not for convincing them to do the thing, it’s just like a control frustration off ramp. They don’t take it every time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing I've learned with my four-year-old is that it's easier to set the conditions for good behavior than to punish bad behavior.

When it comes to bath, getting dressed, getting in the car seat, etc., she wants to feel in control. Obviously she shouldn't be in control of these decisions, but when I give her the illusion of control she complies way better. So for example, I might ask whether she wants to have a disco bath (put the disco ball in the bathroom and listen to the Bee Gees during her bath) or a plain bath. Or I'll challenge her to see whether she can get in the bath before I count to ten (she has the choice about whether she gets in right now, or 8 seconds from now). Or (with clothes) I'll have her compete with her brother to see who can get dressed first (she always "wins" because he's a baby, and obviously he couldn't care less). It's not perfect, but it sure works a lot better than trying to punish her and turning bathtime into a war of the wills.

I’m the M&Ms poster. My kid sees right through these tactics. It’s the old “choices” tactic from gentle parenting. I’m amazed this actually works for any kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing I've learned with my four-year-old is that it's easier to set the conditions for good behavior than to punish bad behavior.

When it comes to bath, getting dressed, getting in the car seat, etc., she wants to feel in control. Obviously she shouldn't be in control of these decisions, but when I give her the illusion of control she complies way better. So for example, I might ask whether she wants to have a disco bath (put the disco ball in the bathroom and listen to the Bee Gees during her bath) or a plain bath. Or I'll challenge her to see whether she can get in the bath before I count to ten (she has the choice about whether she gets in right now, or 8 seconds from now). Or (with clothes) I'll have her compete with her brother to see who can get dressed first (she always "wins" because he's a baby, and obviously he couldn't care less). It's not perfect, but it sure works a lot better than trying to punish her and turning bathtime into a war of the wills.

I’m the M&Ms poster. My kid sees right through these tactics. It’s the old “choices” tactic from gentle parenting. I’m amazed this actually works for any kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing I've learned with my four-year-old is that it's easier to set the conditions for good behavior than to punish bad behavior.

When it comes to bath, getting dressed, getting in the car seat, etc., she wants to feel in control. Obviously she shouldn't be in control of these decisions, but when I give her the illusion of control she complies way better. So for example, I might ask whether she wants to have a disco bath (put the disco ball in the bathroom and listen to the Bee Gees during her bath) or a plain bath. Or I'll challenge her to see whether she can get in the bath before I count to ten (she has the choice about whether she gets in right now, or 8 seconds from now). Or (with clothes) I'll have her compete with her brother to see who can get dressed first (she always "wins" because he's a baby, and obviously he couldn't care less). It's not perfect, but it sure works a lot better than trying to punish her and turning bathtime into a war of the wills.

I’m the M&Ms poster. My kid sees right through these tactics. It’s the old “choices” tactic from gentle parenting. I’m amazed this actually works for any kids.

Anonymous wrote:One thing I've learned with my four-year-old is that it's easier to set the conditions for good behavior than to punish bad behavior.

When it comes to bath, getting dressed, getting in the car seat, etc., she wants to feel in control. Obviously she shouldn't be in control of these decisions, but when I give her the illusion of control she complies way better. So for example, I might ask whether she wants to have a disco bath (put the disco ball in the bathroom and listen to the Bee Gees during her bath) or a plain bath. Or I'll challenge her to see whether she can get in the bath before I count to ten (she has the choice about whether she gets in right now, or 8 seconds from now). Or (with clothes) I'll have her compete with her brother to see who can get dressed first (she always "wins" because he's a baby, and obviously he couldn't care less). It's not perfect, but it sure works a lot better than trying to punish her and turning bathtime into a war of the wills.

Anonymous wrote:OP again. To clarify on the bath struggles, she loves it once she’s in! It’s the transitions that she struggles with. So we will be downstairs playing after dinner and give her a warning that in 5 min it’ll be time to go upstairs for bath and bedtime. She’ll go upstairs ok and then it turns into like 10-15 min of nonsense/wildness like harassing the dog, running around naked, getting distracted by toys etc. and at that point, I’m frustrated and just want her to get in the GD bath! And yeah, me getting frustrated always escalates both of us. But thanks again for a lot of these tips. There are a lot of good reminders for me. I know I can be rigid. She is so sweet and silly and I love her so much. She’s our only kid and I’m so thankful we have her. So i take it really hard when i get frustrated with her. She’ll tell me “mommy, it’s hard to be 4” and I’ll remember that, yes, it is really hard to be 4!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. To clarify on the bath struggles, she loves it once she’s in! It’s the transitions that she struggles with. So we will be downstairs playing after dinner and give her a warning that in 5 min it’ll be time to go upstairs for bath and bedtime. She’ll go upstairs ok and then it turns into like 10-15 min of nonsense/wildness like harassing the dog, running around naked, getting distracted by toys etc. and at that point, I’m frustrated and just want her to get in the GD bath! And yeah, me getting frustrated always escalates both of us. But thanks again for a lot of these tips. There are a lot of good reminders for me. I know I can be rigid. She is so sweet and silly and I love her so much. She’s our only kid and I’m so thankful we have her. So i take it really hard when i get frustrated with her. She’ll tell me “mommy, it’s hard to be 4” and I’ll remember that, yes, it is really hard to be 4!

This sounds more like distraction than disobedience. Can you streamline the process? If she goes upstairs okay, maybe have her go straight to the bathroom. She can strip and use the toilet while you take her dirty clothes away and start to run the bath. Then she won’t have the opportunity to be distracted by toys, the dog, etc.

Yeah this is just distraction and it being late in the day when it’s harder for everyone (kid and parent) to follow through on a simple action. In this case you have to accept that a 4yo needs to be micromanaged a bit more, they will not just walk upstairs and report for the bath. Things you can try:

- pick the kid up and carry them
- have both parents go sit in the bathtub and wait for the kid to join them
- incentivize a part of the bath that they like - eg, I’m pouring the bubbles now! They will only last a couple minutes so you’ll need to be in here to enjoy them.
- set a timer. “We have 15 minutes for bath. Timer starts now. The sooner you get upstairs and in the bath, the more time you will enjoy in there.”

I have used all of these depending on age, which kid, and how tired they are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. To clarify on the bath struggles, she loves it once she’s in! It’s the transitions that she struggles with. So we will be downstairs playing after dinner and give her a warning that in 5 min it’ll be time to go upstairs for bath and bedtime. She’ll go upstairs ok and then it turns into like 10-15 min of nonsense/wildness like harassing the dog, running around naked, getting distracted by toys etc. and at that point, I’m frustrated and just want her to get in the GD bath! And yeah, me getting frustrated always escalates both of us. But thanks again for a lot of these tips. There are a lot of good reminders for me. I know I can be rigid. She is so sweet and silly and I love her so much. She’s our only kid and I’m so thankful we have her. So i take it really hard when i get frustrated with her. She’ll tell me “mommy, it’s hard to be 4” and I’ll remember that, yes, it is really hard to be 4!

This sounds more like distraction than disobedience. Can you streamline the process? If she goes upstairs okay, maybe have her go straight to the bathroom. She can strip and use the toilet while you take her dirty clothes away and start to run the bath. Then she won’t have the opportunity to be distracted by toys, the dog, etc.