Anonymous
Post 03/31/2024 08:28     Subject: What is Brown really like?
It's a horrible place. Go anywhere else. I'm begging you.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2024 07:57     Subject: Re:What is Brown really like?
Anonymous wrote:
No college with zero general education requirements is interested in pushing anyone outside their comfort zone.


First,Brown does have some general requirements.

Second, here's what happens in the real world at most colleges:

Jason wants to go to med school and Lisa wants to go to law school. Both of them are really focused on getting as high a gpa as possible. So, they pick the easiest courses with the most lenient grading they can, especially for courses outside their comfort zones which they are taking to meet "distribution requirements."So, Lisa signs up for courses usually known as "Rocks for Jocks," "Physics for Poets," and Comp Sci 101-"How to Plug In Your Computer." (At most schools, she'll only need to take 2 of them.)

Jason has already taken AP Bio and got a 5. College policy is that he only gets credit for it if he takes the next higher level course and gets a B. Jason elects not to take the credit, and instead enrolls in Intro Bio. He already knows 90 per cent of the material extremely well, but he thinks that an A in the Intro course will help inflate his science GPA and help him get into med school. (After all, it's unlikely med schools will learn he took AP Bio if he does so.) He follows the same strategy in choosing his first chem course. He finds out which humanities courses the hockey team takes and signs up for those.(The courses and teams vary at different colleges.)

Lisa has heard that you can take a limited number of courses Pass/Fail "at the discretion of the professor."So, having sat through "Rocks for Jocks" which was easier than any science course she's taken since 7th grade, she decides to take a more intensive---and interesting--science course Pass/Fail. That option proves to be a mirage because none of the profs who teach them permit that. (Ironically, at some colleges the gut science courses are the only science courses that can be taken Pass/Fail.)

If Lisa goes to Brown, she learns that a Rock Star prof teaches an Intro Bio course.For years, it's gotten rave reviews.80 per cent of those who enroll are premeds and it's a tough course. Lisa signs up for it S/NC. She really enjoys it. She has to do a lot of work to get an S, but she isn't worried that she can't compete for an A with the premeds. Taking such courses S/NC will not hurt her GPA for law school applications.

Something in the course leads her to seek out a geology course. At most colleges this would be "Rocks for Jocks." The difference at Brown is that every student in the class actually WANTS to take geology;they aren't just taking it for a distribution requirement. Therefore, teaching the course is not automatically assigned to the most junior member of the department because nobody wants to teach a class made up mostly of people who have zero interest in the subject.

Jason at Brown decides to take the higher level bio and chem courses because he knows that if he is in over his head, he can retake the courses.

Brown has studied student course selection for years. It turns out that the vast majority of students DO take a wide variety of courses, but they often skip broad survey courses, e.g., they might take Russian history or American Diplomatic History rather than European History or US history.In many cases, the students were enrolled in rigorous high schools where they already took survey-type courses in European History or US History.

I know I won't convince the PP, but maybe other folks will realize that Brown's system does encourage students not to limit themselves to safe choices.


I'm a Brown grad, and this was my experience. I was a poli sci major, but I took lots of 200-level science classes because I could. It was also good in calculus, which was mandatory S/NC: I hadn't taken calculus in high school and because it couldn't be an easy A, the other students also hadn't taken it before, instead of it being filled with people who took it in high school, and that made it a better class for me.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2024 07:52     Subject: What is Brown really like?
Anonymous wrote:Fascinatingly, Brown students self-identify as members of lgbtqia+ community at 5x the national rate. (And that statistic is double what it was at brown since 2910.)
Social campus contagion? Or is this a case of lgbtqia+ identitying kids simply being attracted to Brown en masse?
Current percentage of “non-straight” identifying kids at Brown is 26%.


The number of commenters concerned with the percentage of LGBTQ students is fascinating. It's not contagious.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2024 07:50     Subject: What is Brown really like?
Anonymous wrote:Fascinatingly, Brown students self-identify as members of lgbtqia+ community at 5x the national rate. (And that statistic is double what it was at brown since 2910.)
Social campus contagion? Or is this a case of lgbtqia+ identitying kids simply being attracted to Brown en masse?
Current percentage of “non-straight” identifying kids at Brown is 26%.


That seems on par with youth overall nowadays. Where are these stats from anyways?
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2024 07:30     Subject: What is Brown really like?
Fascinatingly, Brown students self-identify as members of lgbtqia+ community at 5x the national rate. (And that statistic is double what it was at brown since 2910.)
Social campus contagion? Or is this a case of lgbtqia+ identitying kids simply being attracted to Brown en masse?
Current percentage of “non-straight” identifying kids at Brown is 26%.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2024 00:30     Subject: Re:What is Brown really like?
No college with zero general education requirements is interested in pushing anyone outside their comfort zone.


First,Brown does have some general requirements.

Second, here's what happens in the real world at most colleges:

Jason wants to go to med school and Lisa wants to go to law school. Both of them are really focused on getting as high a gpa as possible. So, they pick the easiest courses with the most lenient grading they can, especially for courses outside their comfort zones which they are taking to meet "distribution requirements."So, Lisa signs up for courses usually known as "Rocks for Jocks," "Physics for Poets," and Comp Sci 101-"How to Plug In Your Computer." (At most schools, she'll only need to take 2 of them.)

Jason has already taken AP Bio and got a 5. College policy is that he only gets credit for it if he takes the next higher level course and gets a B. Jason elects not to take the credit, and instead enrolls in Intro Bio. He already knows 90 per cent of the material extremely well, but he thinks that an A in the Intro course will help inflate his science GPA and help him get into med school. (After all, it's unlikely med schools will learn he took AP Bio if he does so.) He follows the same strategy in choosing his first chem course. He finds out which humanities courses the hockey team takes and signs up for those.(The courses and teams vary at different colleges.)

Lisa has heard that you can take a limited number of courses Pass/Fail "at the discretion of the professor."So, having sat through "Rocks for Jocks" which was easier than any science course she's taken since 7th grade, she decides to take a more intensive---and interesting--science course Pass/Fail. That option proves to be a mirage because none of the profs who teach them permit that. (Ironically, at some colleges the gut science courses are the only science courses that can be taken Pass/Fail.)

If Lisa goes to Brown, she learns that a Rock Star prof teaches an Intro Bio course.For years, it's gotten rave reviews.80 per cent of those who enroll are premeds and it's a tough course. Lisa signs up for it S/NC. She really enjoys it. She has to do a lot of work to get an S, but she isn't worried that she can't compete for an A with the premeds. Taking such courses S/NC will not hurt her GPA for law school applications.

Something in the course leads her to seek out a geology course. At most colleges this would be "Rocks for Jocks." The difference at Brown is that every student in the class actually WANTS to take geology;they aren't just taking it for a distribution requirement. Therefore, teaching the course is not automatically assigned to the most junior member of the department because nobody wants to teach a class made up mostly of people who have zero interest in the subject.

Jason at Brown decides to take the higher level bio and chem courses because he knows that if he is in over his head, he can retake the courses.

Brown has studied student course selection for years. It turns out that the vast majority of students DO take a wide variety of courses, but they often skip broad survey courses, e.g., they might take Russian history or American Diplomatic History rather than European History or US history.In many cases, the students were enrolled in rigorous high schools where they already took survey-type courses in European History or US History.

I know I won't convince the PP, but maybe other folks will realize that Brown's system does encourage students not to limit themselves to safe choices.
Anonymous
Post 03/30/2024 12:47     Subject: What is Brown really like?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The Brown grads I know are exceedingly normal, one is super active in the junior league. It's not a great school academically (lots of grade inflation, very little rigor), but it's difficult to get in so the kids are bright.


No, there is not "lots of grade inflation. " But GPAs tend to be higher because Brown encourages students to take some classes pass/fail (S/NC) to push them out of comfort zones. Also, students can retake a class for new grade, and a failing class drops off. Neither policy affects the actual grading in any given course and both good for learning mindset and mental health.


This is just grade inflation with more steps, and the only grades anyone is getting are As (https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2022/04/brown-grade-inflation-continues-to-soar-data-shows).

No college with zero general education requirements is interested in pushing anyone outside their comfort zone. It's very selective and the student body is rich, which is what a lot of people want, apparently. Academically, it's a joke. You can get a good education there, you can get a good education anywhere, but there's nothing to guarantee it.


There is a huge gap between saying “there is nothing to guarantee you will get a good education” (which frankly I am not even sure I agree with) and “academically it’s a joke”.

If your kid isn’t grown up enough to take responsibility for their education then maybe they don’t belong at Brown.

Honestly the idea that you can you tell the quality of a college education by the average GPA of its graduates is so dumb that probably anyone who thinks that should stay far away from Brown.


Yeah, that person is an idiot. Or a student troll from another university. Or both!
Anonymous
Post 03/30/2024 12:44     Subject: What is Brown really like?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The Brown grads I know are exceedingly normal, one is super active in the junior league. It's not a great school academically (lots of grade inflation, very little rigor), but it's difficult to get in so the kids are bright.


No, there is not "lots of grade inflation. " But GPAs tend to be higher because Brown encourages students to take some classes pass/fail (S/NC) to push them out of comfort zones. Also, students can retake a class for new grade, and a failing class drops off. Neither policy affects the actual grading in any given course and both good for learning mindset and mental health.


This is just grade inflation with more steps, and the only grades anyone is getting are As (https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2022/04/brown-grade-inflation-continues-to-soar-data-shows).

No college with zero general education requirements is interested in pushing anyone outside their comfort zone. It's very selective and the student body is rich, which is what a lot of people want, apparently. Academically, it's a joke. You can get a good education there, you can get a good education anywhere, but there's nothing to guarantee it.


Why are you commenting? You have no idea what you are talking about. Clearly don't know Brown or students there.

Of course Brown is interested in pushing students to explore. Brown selects students that push themselves out of their comfort zone. It is highly competitive at about 5% admission. Students already demonstrate that they will push themselves, but many of these students are very GPA conscious, so this policy encourages exploration.

Academically, it is rigorous. Not easy As. You just rely on gossip and have no idea.
Anonymous
Post 03/30/2024 11:57     Subject: What is Brown really like?
This kind of talk is so silly. As noted above, if an 18-year-old can amass the record of achievement required to gain admission to Brown nowadays, then they are almost certainly a highly motivated, high achieving student who is at the very top of their high school class

If they get to Brown and actually have a chance to lower their internal pressure a little, maybe discover something they’re genuinely enthusiastic about rather than clearing the next hurdle of achievement, then that’s a good thing

My child had a great experience there, and whether or not their grades were over inflated as an undergrad, is now about to graduate with honors from law school at the University of Chicago, probably the law school most renowned for its highly rigorous and regimented grading. So maybe, just maybe, kids who make great grades in high school can continue to make them in college and then in graduate school because they’re good at making great grades and not because Brown’s academics are lacking
Anonymous
Post 03/30/2024 11:01     Subject: What is Brown really like?
Anonymous wrote:I'm smart enough to have graduated from a college where I had to earn my grades, so there's that.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

If that sounds like academic rigor to you, you're free to encourage your child to attend. I'm free to keep dumping those resumes at the bottom of the pile, because in my experience, Brown grads are highly credentialed but very average and without much mettle


Those poor Brown grads who will now never get the benefit of toiling under your genius. They must be heartbroken, unemployed and homeless.
Anonymous
Post 03/30/2024 10:55     Subject: What is Brown really like?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The Brown grads I know are exceedingly normal, one is super active in the junior league. It's not a great school academically (lots of grade inflation, very little rigor), but it's difficult to get in so the kids are bright.


No, there is not "lots of grade inflation. " But GPAs tend to be higher because Brown encourages students to take some classes pass/fail (S/NC) to push them out of comfort zones. Also, students can retake a class for new grade, and a failing class drops off. Neither policy affects the actual grading in any given course and both good for learning mindset and mental health.


This is just grade inflation with more steps, and the only grades anyone is getting are As (https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2022/04/brown-grade-inflation-continues-to-soar-data-shows).

No college with zero general education requirements is interested in pushing anyone outside their comfort zone. It's very selective and the student body is rich, which is what a lot of people want, apparently. Academically, it's a joke. You can get a good education there, you can get a good education anywhere, but there's nothing to guarantee it.


There is a huge gap between saying “there is nothing to guarantee you will get a good education” (which frankly I am not even sure I agree with) and “academically it’s a joke”.

If your kid isn’t grown up enough to take responsibility for their education then maybe they don’t belong at Brown.

Honestly the idea that you can you tell the quality of a college education by the average GPA of its graduates is so dumb that probably anyone who thinks that should stay far away from Brown.


I'm smart enough to have graduated from a college where I had to earn my grades, so there's that. Either way, I've only shared facts. Grade inflation at Brown is rampant even by Ivy League standards. There's no guarantee that any Brown graduate ever had to learn outside of areas where they expected to excel. There's no guarantee that their GPA reflects anything like their abilities over every course they took. If that sounds like academic rigor to you, you're free to encourage your child to attend. I'm free to keep dumping those resumes at the bottom of the pile, because in my experience, Brown grads are highly credentialed but very average and without much mettle.


Brown certainly isn’t perfect or right for everyone but no one is turning it down because you think grads don’t have “mettle”. Brown grads have been hearing that kind of crap for 50 years and doing great.
Anonymous
Post 03/30/2024 10:52     Subject: What is Brown really like?
OP, your husband’s view reflects a stereotype somewhat valid 30 years ago. Fewer Brown students went to Wall Street and pursued more creative options, like non-profits, publishing, PhDs, etc. Today, all the very selective schools admit mostly smart grinders of various types. The kids who attended Brown 30 years ago now attend SLACs.
Anonymous
Post 03/30/2024 10:45     Subject: Re:What is Brown really like?
Anonymous wrote:It's lovely and they arent weird. Your DH is.


I won’t disagree with you there. Lol