East coaster, in my opinion for east coast people:

Harvard > MIT/Princeton > Stanford > Yale

The name and easy A's make it really hard to resist the allure of Harvard. Sky high gpa from the world's most respected university, sign me up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stanford is real competition now and may fully eclipse Harvard in the near future. Both are great in nearly every field for both undergrad and grad. Stanford has been better in most STEM fields and actually has a larger overall endowment when real estate is included. Stanford has also become the biggest name in modern Asia given the Silicon Valley connection and accessible West Coast location. Harvard is still unrivaled in Europe though, where Yale is the next biggest name.

On the east coast, Yale and Stanford are second tier.

BS. I'm an insane Harvard booster but this is delusional (at least for Stanford).

MIT, Princeton, and Harvard are well above Stanford

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stanford is real competition now and may fully eclipse Harvard in the near future. Both are great in nearly every field for both undergrad and grad. Stanford has been better in most STEM fields and actually has a larger overall endowment when real estate is included. Stanford has also become the biggest name in modern Asia given the Silicon Valley connection and accessible West Coast location. Harvard is still unrivaled in Europe though, where Yale is the next biggest name.

On the east coast, Yale and Stanford are second tier.

BS. I'm an insane Harvard booster but this is delusional (at least for Stanford).

Anonymous wrote:Stanford is real competition now and may fully eclipse Harvard in the near future. Both are great in nearly every field for both undergrad and grad. Stanford has been better in most STEM fields and actually has a larger overall endowment when real estate is included. Stanford has also become the biggest name in modern Asia given the Silicon Valley connection and accessible West Coast location. Harvard is still unrivaled in Europe though, where Yale is the next biggest name.

On the east coast, Yale and Stanford are second tier.

Stanford is real competition now and may fully eclipse Harvard in the near future. Both are great in nearly every field for both undergrad and grad. Stanford has been better in most STEM fields and actually has a larger overall endowment when real estate is included. Stanford has also become the biggest name in modern Asia given the Silicon Valley connection and accessible West Coast location. Harvard is still unrivaled in Europe though, where Yale is the next biggest name.

The New Haven location for Yale is a turnoff for people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard will always have the brand name. Everyone in the world recognizes it. If you ask the average person anywhere on Earth what's the best university in the world they will likely respond with Harvard.

But for top students and well-educated professionals, Harvard undergrad doesn't have the same cachet that it's had in decades past. Everyone is aware that the majority of Harvard undergrads are hooked in some way - legacy, VIP, rich, DEI, athlete, related to faculty, etc - and that there are very, very few seats available to the genuine best and brightest. Harvard has never been a true meritocracy. But increasingly it seems more like an exclusive club for the privileged with some diversity thrown in for the optics. The academics are not challenging. The average GPA of a Harvard student is 3.7, which is absurd. And while there's no way to measure this, many do seem to think that recent Harvard grads are not particularly impressive.

Personally, I think MIT, Oxford, Cambridge, Princeton, and Stanford are significantly better universities for undergraduates.

Actually it’s really only known in places like DCUM. Man on the street just knows Harvard = smart.

Because man on the street probably has never met a Harvard grad. People who have are much less impressed.

There are fewer Bs and Cs because there are fewer gentleman B/C students and more gunners.

The other top schools also have more gunners than ever before but Harvard has the highest average GPA(at about 3.8). I've seen 3.5 for Princeton, 3.6 for Stanford and 3.7 for Yale floating around.

Tbh not criticizing grade inflation though - imo it actually really really helps people to get good jobs and law school/med school. Like same kid going to Harvard vs going to Princeton will probably have a much easier time getting top opportunities from Harvard. Giving your students an edge in the next phase of competition is a good thing tbh.

Anonymous wrote:Harvard will always have the brand name. Everyone in the world recognizes it. If you ask the average person anywhere on Earth what's the best university in the world they will likely respond with Harvard.

But for top students and well-educated professionals, Harvard undergrad doesn't have the same cachet that it's had in decades past. Everyone is aware that the majority of Harvard undergrads are hooked in some way - legacy, VIP, rich, DEI, athlete, related to faculty, etc - and that there are very, very few seats available to the genuine best and brightest. Harvard has never been a true meritocracy. But increasingly it seems more like an exclusive club for the privileged with some diversity thrown in for the optics. The academics are not challenging. The average GPA of a Harvard student is 3.7, which is absurd. And while there's no way to measure this, many do seem to think that recent Harvard grads are not particularly impressive.

Personally, I think MIT, Oxford, Cambridge, Princeton, and Stanford are significantly better universities for undergraduates.

I'm going to push back on the bolded section. I went to Harvard mumble mumble years ago. I was one of those lazy legacy kids you hear about. I majored in drinking and chasing BU girls around. I had a B average, which I think was pretty fair.

As an alumni interviewer, I can see that the caliber of accepted students including legacies is much higher than it was in my day. They might be smarter, I don't know. But they're definitely more driven and harder working than I and my friends were. If they're taking the same classes I did, but they're not showing up hung over or not showing up at all as was my wont, it stands to reason that GPAs are higher.

There are fewer Bs and Cs because there are fewer gentleman B/C students and more gunners.

Actually it’s really only known in places like DCUM. Man on the street just knows Harvard = smart.

The real question is what do top grad programs and employers think.

Anonymous wrote:Harvard will always have the brand name. Everyone in the world recognizes it. If you ask the average person anywhere on Earth what's the best university in the world they will likely respond with Harvard.

But for top students and well-educated professionals, Harvard undergrad doesn't have the same cachet that it's had in decades past. Everyone is aware that the majority of Harvard undergrads are hooked in some way - legacy, VIP, rich, DEI, athlete, related to faculty, etc - and that there are very, very few seats available to the genuine best and brightest. Harvard has never been a true meritocracy. But increasingly it seems more like an exclusive club for the privileged with some diversity thrown in for the optics. The academics are not challenging. The average GPA of a Harvard student is 3.7, which is absurd. And while there's no way to measure this, many do seem to think that recent Harvard grads are not particularly impressive.

Personally, I think MIT, Oxford, Cambridge, Princeton, and Stanford are significantly better universities for undergraduates.

Actually it’s really only known in places like DCUM. Man on the street just knows Harvard = smart.

Harvard will always have the brand name. Everyone in the world recognizes it. If you ask the average person anywhere on Earth what's the best university in the world they will likely respond with Harvard.

But for top students and well-educated professionals, Harvard undergrad doesn't have the same cachet that it's had in decades past. Everyone is aware that the majority of Harvard undergrads are hooked in some way - legacy, VIP, rich, DEI, athlete, related to faculty, etc - and that there are very, very few seats available to the genuine best and brightest. Harvard has never been a true meritocracy. But increasingly it seems more like an exclusive club for the privileged with some diversity thrown in for the optics. The academics are not challenging. The average GPA of a Harvard student is 3.7, which is absurd. And while there's no way to measure this, many do seem to think that recent Harvard grads are not particularly impressive.

Personally, I think MIT, Oxford, Cambridge, Princeton, and Stanford are significantly better universities for undergraduates.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Harvard has cachet that the other ivies don’t have

A Harvard degree is a golden ticket. Basically get in, coast academically(sweet sweet grade inflation), and enjoy as the Harvard name effortlessly opens the doors to power and wealth.

Even the rest of HYPSM simply cannot compare.

Harvard grads I know include:
* Waiter
* Adjunct faculty (multiple)
* Public school teacher (multiple)
* Pastor of a small congregation in a hardscrabble mountain town
* Federal prisoner

It's certainly easier to get the golden ticket, but even with a Harvard parchment there's no guarantee.

+1. It’s not the 1950s anymore. Harvard is a famous brand, but believe me in here in New England there are plenty of Harvard grads wandering around just trying to find their way like everybody else and living the lives of normal people.

There’s something faintly sad about Harvard people taking such comfort from a survey directed to such a decidedly middle-of-the-road group of respondents.

Most people who have gone to Harvard admit it is not the best undergraduate experience.