Anonymous
02/16/2024 14:46
Subject: Entry Level Attorney... how much to negotiate?
I don't understand OP's who start a thread but already have their mind made up. Why waste people's time if you already know what you're going to do?
For midsize law firm, $100,000 is below market rate. Either OP doesn't understand the type of firm she's been offered and is mislabeling it, or she doesn't care about the money (I was lazy in apply for jobs, what does that even mean). It's below market, way below.
How do people know that firms don't negotiate starting salaries? Did these posters negotiate?
For midsize law firm, $100,000 is below market rate. Either OP doesn't understand the type of firm she's been offered and is mislabeling it, or she doesn't care about the money (I was lazy in apply for jobs, what does that even mean). It's below market, way below.
How do people know that firms don't negotiate starting salaries? Did these posters negotiate?
Anonymous
02/16/2024 14:30
Subject: Entry Level Attorney... how much to negotiate?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It depends on what kind of firm.
Biglaw (which this clearly isn't given the salary) you don't negotiate unless maybe you have a year or two of clerkship and you want to move up a year, get a clerkship bonus, etc. It's lockstep. It's set.
What is your law school ranked roughly? What is your GPA? Are you on law review?
My law school is T40, I don't have clerkship experience but I am looking to work for a year or two and then do a clerkship, GPA is decent, I do have law review experience.
The lockstep makes sense. Thank you.
You do know that a federal clerkship out of a law firm is extremely unlikely,no? And, no, you usually don’t negotiate these things with middle and large lock-step firms. Everyone is paid the same for the obvious reason.
OP here, I've already done two judicial internships, one at the US District court level and one with the 9th Circuit. My judges have written me high praises recommendation letter for me. I'm on OSCAR now and there are a few judges already hiring for 2026.
No clerkship bonus? I thought circuit court clerkship were semi prestigious, are no better firms willing to hire you?
As a data point like 10 years ago my friend went to Miles Stockbridge which is a mid-level law firm and started at $125K.
Doesn't NALP still publish first year salaries? That's a resource for you.
OP hasn't done a clerkship. OP did internships. There's a world of difference, and no one is paying a bonus for an internship.
I read too fast. Internships are worthless. If op is looking at $100k firms, they’re not getting a federal clerkship two years later.
Not true. OP will be fine. Not everyone wants to do big law churns and burn right away. As long as OP maintains contacts with his/her judges, they will be fine.
OP was an intern. They don't have the sort of relationship with the judge that a clerk has. It's not a terrible thing to have, but judicial internships don't get you very far.
Anonymous
02/16/2024 11:39
Subject: Entry Level Attorney... how much to negotiate?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It depends on what kind of firm.
Biglaw (which this clearly isn't given the salary) you don't negotiate unless maybe you have a year or two of clerkship and you want to move up a year, get a clerkship bonus, etc. It's lockstep. It's set.
What is your law school ranked roughly? What is your GPA? Are you on law review?
My law school is T40, I don't have clerkship experience but I am looking to work for a year or two and then do a clerkship, GPA is decent, I do have law review experience.
The lockstep makes sense. Thank you.
You do know that a federal clerkship out of a law firm is extremely unlikely,no? And, no, you usually don’t negotiate these things with middle and large lock-step firms. Everyone is paid the same for the obvious reason.
OP here, I've already done two judicial internships, one at the US District court level and one with the 9th Circuit. My judges have written me high praises recommendation letter for me. I'm on OSCAR now and there are a few judges already hiring for 2026.
No clerkship bonus? I thought circuit court clerkship were semi prestigious, are no better firms willing to hire you?
As a data point like 10 years ago my friend went to Miles Stockbridge which is a mid-level law firm and started at $125K.
Doesn't NALP still publish first year salaries? That's a resource for you.
OP here, I haven't done a clerkship yet, just judicial internships while in law school. I looked at NALP but am not sure if to push back, several people on here said you get what you get.
To be honest, I kind of lazily applied to jobs so now I am playing catch up.
PP here, apologies I read too fast and didn't notice they were internships not clerkships. I do agree with the other posters that you can't negotiate but please do ask about the Barbri reimbursement, they may permit that and you won't know unless you ask.
I suggested NALP not for purposes of pushing back but if they are paying significantly below market you can either apply to more firms now or if you are out of the hiring cycle wait a year or two and apply to other places.
Anonymous
02/16/2024 10:17
Subject: Entry Level Attorney... how much to negotiate?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op it seems very weird that you went to a t40 law school and have two very good federal clerkships, but your job offer is from a firm offering you $100k. That seems very low for a midsized firm. Starting salaries at biglaw is $225k right now. My husbands non fancy corporate is paying college grads $100k for their first year out of college training year. $100 seems very low for any firm in dc, small or otherwise. Op is this firm smaller and less prestigious than you think? Or maybe it is nonprofit or govt based so its cash position looks different than a typical profitable firm?
OP here, it's a nonprofit type of law firm, but it's exactly the work I want to do.
Good for you, OP! I'm sure you won't regret not doing Biglaw and working with the types of harpies who squawk "oh my gawd, you're not making at least 200k?! Wasn't anyone better willing to hire you!?!" under the guise of helpfulness.
Wishing you a fulfilling and satisfying career.
Thank you!
I'll end my thread here. I appreciate the helpful responses.
Anonymous
02/16/2024 10:05
Subject: Entry Level Attorney... how much to negotiate?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op it seems very weird that you went to a t40 law school and have two very good federal clerkships, but your job offer is from a firm offering you $100k. That seems very low for a midsized firm. Starting salaries at biglaw is $225k right now. My husbands non fancy corporate is paying college grads $100k for their first year out of college training year. $100 seems very low for any firm in dc, small or otherwise. Op is this firm smaller and less prestigious than you think? Or maybe it is nonprofit or govt based so its cash position looks different than a typical profitable firm?
OP here, it's a nonprofit type of law firm, but it's exactly the work I want to do.
Good for you, OP! I'm sure you won't regret not doing Biglaw and working with the types of harpies who squawk "oh my gawd, you're not making at least 200k?! Wasn't anyone better willing to hire you!?!" under the guise of helpfulness.
Wishing you a fulfilling and satisfying career.
Anonymous
02/16/2024 09:58
Subject: Entry Level Attorney... how much to negotiate?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It depends on what kind of firm.
Biglaw (which this clearly isn't given the salary) you don't negotiate unless maybe you have a year or two of clerkship and you want to move up a year, get a clerkship bonus, etc. It's lockstep. It's set.
What is your law school ranked roughly? What is your GPA? Are you on law review?
My law school is T40, I don't have clerkship experience but I am looking to work for a year or two and then do a clerkship, GPA is decent, I do have law review experience.
The lockstep makes sense. Thank you.
You do know that a federal clerkship out of a law firm is extremely unlikely,no? And, no, you usually don’t negotiate these things with middle and large lock-step firms. Everyone is paid the same for the obvious reason.
You do know you're wrong, right? It's incredibly common now, especially for district court clerkship, for clerks to have a couple years experience.
+1. Both of the federal judges I clerked for specifically wanted someone with prior work experience (in my case, law firm).
Anonymous
02/16/2024 09:16
Subject: Entry Level Attorney... how much to negotiate?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op it seems very weird that you went to a t40 law school and have two very good federal clerkships, but your job offer is from a firm offering you $100k. That seems very low for a midsized firm. Starting salaries at biglaw is $225k right now. My husbands non fancy corporate is paying college grads $100k for their first year out of college training year. $100 seems very low for any firm in dc, small or otherwise. Op is this firm smaller and less prestigious than you think? Or maybe it is nonprofit or govt based so its cash position looks different than a typical profitable firm?
OP here, it's a nonprofit type of law firm, but it's exactly the work I want to do.
OP, congratulations! What matters is that you found a great fit. Now, as mentioned, stay in contact with your judges, and network in DC.