Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if you can afford Harvard and the kid gets in but the kid wants to major in elementary education?

I would have to say no. The ROI just isn’t there.

Well if my kid wanted to major in Elementary Education, the list of colleges they applied to would be very different than if they want to major in business or engineering or chemistry. So Harvard likely wouldn't even be in their list of choices, because yes, it's more important to do undergrad in the state you ultimately want to work and to pick a program that has great student teaching program---that is what matters most, not an elite school.

+1 You need to fit the list to the kid and their goals. I found it really helpful that a close friend had gone through this with her three, very high achieving kids, a few years before me. Their father is a doctor and an Ivy grad. Kid 1 wanted to go into investment banking. ED to the Ivy where he was a legacy and has since graduated and is in fact in IB. Kid 2, loves tech, mostly applied to big flagships strong in CS/Engineering and goes to U of Washington. Kid 3, wants to go to med school. Is going to a solid state university near home (and working in dad's medical office) and saving money for med school. All three had very different lists.

Anonymous wrote:Of course you can hire someone as a college advisor. It’s very expensive. For us, totally worth the price as we knew NOTHING about how it works these days. It was fully worth it. Maybe at a private school you wouldn’t need it. From DCPS, absolutely. We could barely get them to get the transcripts sent in time without going in and sitting there until they did their jobs.

Thanks. Yes, I understand uch a person exists, but I thought they did different things (helping with essays and strategy, I guess).
Can you please tell me who you recommend and a sense of cost?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strongly disagree. Why would you want 17-18 year olds making life changing decisions without parental input? That's crazy. 17 year olds aren't even considered competent to enter into contracts.

+1. DC is not even sure what they want to major in. Has admission to several Big 10 schools and Virginia Tech. We can afford to pay for an OOS school but not willing to pay OOS to 'experiment'. Is "Go to Tech" a directive? Not really, but we sure are 'pushing/cajoling/enticing' them towards that decision because we want them to 'own' the decision.
Example conversation snippet..
DC: I want to go OOS and be far away from you guys. I think I like Penn State.
US: Do you realize Penn State is closer to us that Tech? And oh, btw, we'll buy you a car, junior year, if you go to Tech with the money saved. You can be farther away AND have a car!".

Well in your case, VaTech is very similar to all of the Big 10 Schools (except NU, private and only 7-8K undergrads). All are good, very large state schools. Many are also in more isolated/rural areas like VaTech (where the school is the town and there isn't much else without it). So for undergrad, I don't see how any of the other Big10 schools would be worth the OOS cost, IMO So yeah, I wouldn't be paying an extra $30K/year for that experience.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strongly disagree. Why would you want 17-18 year olds making life changing decisions without parental input? That's crazy. 17 year olds aren't even considered competent to enter into contracts.

+1 My kid is asking us a lot of questions and wants some guidance. I can't imagine shrugging that off and telling them they're on their own.

+2 I do generally think that once you have a set of acceptances in hand and they fit the parent's finances, the choice is the student's. If they want to bounce ideas off me, ask questions, etc. happy to do that. But I'm not going to tell them which one I'd choose, they need to own the decision and not feel like the are disappointing me if they pick differently.

For us, the building of the initial list was heavily parent-led. My kids were swamped with school work and intimidated about how to discern from so many schools what might be a fit. So I set up the initial set of tours to figure out if they had a size/setting/location/etc. preferences. From that I figured out what we could afford, learned about merit vs need aid, did a ton of research, proposed schools for them to go read about and say yes/no/maybe. We did some more tours and I suggested other schools to research based off that feedback. Basically, I did what people hire a college counselor to do. Most kids (unless they are research nerds like me and don't have to consider cost) are going to have a hard time building an appropriate list with zero guidance.

New to this process: can you really hire someone to do this? I thought college counselors were more about suggesting strategies etc. --

An essential part of college counseling is help in figuring out your list. IMO, that's really the most complicated part of the whole thing and really where the parent needs to be most involved. As the parent, I wanted to be 100% comfortable with every school on my kid's list and, for some, that meant having very up-front conversations with the kid that school X would only be a possibility if they got aid to meet our budget. Then, once the acceptances are in, you can back off and let them decide (from options that are in-budget if that matters for you) because you have already vetted the schools for the basic criteria so from there it's up to kid to decide what they prefer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strongly disagree. Why would you want 17-18 year olds making life changing decisions without parental input? That's crazy. 17 year olds aren't even considered competent to enter into contracts.

+1 My kid is asking us a lot of questions and wants some guidance. I can't imagine shrugging that off and telling them they're on their own.

+2 I do generally think that once you have a set of acceptances in hand and they fit the parent's finances, the choice is the student's. If they want to bounce ideas off me, ask questions, etc. happy to do that. But I'm not going to tell them which one I'd choose, they need to own the decision and not feel like the are disappointing me if they pick differently.

For us, the building of the initial list was heavily parent-led. My kids were swamped with school work and intimidated about how to discern from so many schools what might be a fit. So I set up the initial set of tours to figure out if they had a size/setting/location/etc. preferences. From that I figured out what we could afford, learned about merit vs need aid, did a ton of research, proposed schools for them to go read about and say yes/no/maybe. We did some more tours and I suggested other schools to research based off that feedback. Basically, I did what people hire a college counselor to do. Most kids (unless they are research nerds like me and don't have to consider cost) are going to have a hard time building an appropriate list with zero guidance.

New to this process: can you really hire someone to do this? I thought college counselors were more about suggesting strategies etc. --

A good College counselor will help your kid figure out what they want out of college: size/setting/location. Typically start by visiting a variety within a 1-2 hour drive from home. My kid then confirmed they wanted smaller but not too small (5-8K---HS has 2.6K so they didn't want a SLAC with only 2-3 K undergrads), ideally in/near a city (definately not rural), defined their major (down to a specific type of engineering) and that they were willing to go anywhere but don't want to be in the south/red states (wanted something a bit more open minded/progressive). From their the CC helped put together a list of all the choices, including all of any size (ie including GATech, Purdue, UIUC, UMich because of excellent engineering despite my kid thinking they wanted smaller, at most 10-12K)

From there they helped cull the list down to 10-15 schools, making certain we had reaches, targets and safeties. They put 2 safeties on our list I was not aware of (perhaps I'd have found it in my searches, I like to do research). One being a true hidden gem that my kid kept on the list until after visiting in April of senior year. Basically they made sure my kid had an excellent safety they would love. And my kid got excellent merit at that safety as well.

A good CC will be vital to making the right list of colleges. And then once you narrow it down and visit, helping you to know the key facts/issues---like where my kid ended up, they highly value an interview, so we were told, visit and if you at all like the place, then schedule your interview after you leave campus while the visit is fresh. It shows good demonstrated interest, and the interview can happen while the visit is fresh in your kid's mind. I never would have known how important the interview was at this school otherwise. Yes, I can see it's "important" from the CDS, but I might not have realized that until later. This way my kid had their interview done by July just after their July visit. Before all fall interviews fill up.

IMO, a good CC is worth the $4-5K for use during HS if you can afford it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strongly disagree. Why would you want 17-18 year olds making life changing decisions without parental input? That's crazy. 17 year olds aren't even considered competent to enter into contracts.

+1 My kid is asking us a lot of questions and wants some guidance. I can't imagine shrugging that off and telling them they're on their own.

My guess that is not exactly what OP is asking/saying.

Anonymous wrote:I dunno about "fully" - I think there should be some guidance - but my parents had all kinds of crazy rules that really screwed things up for my siblings. You want to avoid that.

You can't come on here and tell us your parents had crazy rules and not tell us what they were? And they only screwed up your siblings? You're burying the story!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree. Of course, I think the kid has the most important opinion. But as the financier and more experienced family member, the parent should have some input. And financial constraints are malleable. Many parents will make voluntary sacrifices (e.g., loans, delayed retirement, etc.) if their kid gets into, say, HYPSM that they wouldn't make for, say, Pepperdine (because their kid wants to be close to the beach). While recognizing that there are many unreasonable parents and many unreasonable kids, it should ideally be something of a team effort with the kid holding more sway.

+1

I'm not spending $400K for college just because my kid wants to go "somewhere warm with hot co-eds".

Similarly, "having a good football team" is not criteria for selecting a college. Whereas, attending a school with good school spirit can be a criteria, but it's in the lower portion of what should be looked at. After say academics, research opportunities, what majors are available should you switch your major and can you easily switch to anything you want (none of this direct admit that prevents you from switching if you want), career center and internship opportunities, then after that comes the Do you like the dorms, is the area safe, do they have the sports/activities you like, etc.
But my kid is not just going to pick SDSU because it's warm and near the beach---they need to sell me on why it's the best school for them and academics is near the top of the "why this school"

This is a tangent and I'm not disagreeing with you, but I went to UCLA in part because I grew up idolizing their sports teams. My parents were just lucky that it happened to be both good and incredibly affordable (for CA residents in the 90's) unlike a certain cross-town, scandal-prone college. That said, it was nice to go to my literal dream school.

FWIW, while SDSU was generally a safety and party school for my generation, it's risen substantially. It's much more competitive and well regarded these days, at least in CA.

Anonymous wrote:What if you can afford Harvard and the kid gets in but the kid wants to major in elementary education?

I would have to say no. The ROI just isn’t there.

Well if my kid wanted to major in Elementary Education, the list of colleges they applied to would be very different than if they want to major in business or engineering or chemistry. So Harvard likely wouldn't even be in their list of choices, because yes, it's more important to do undergrad in the state you ultimately want to work and to pick a program that has great student teaching program---that is what matters most, not an elite school.

Anonymous wrote:Parents who think kids can apply to college and choose among options completely by themselves are delusional and headed for a subpar result. Can some students do this? Probably, but not most. Eighteen year olds do not have the perspective, knowledge, or life experience to make good judgments on such large decisions. Of course, a student’s interests, opinions, etc. are important, but most are massively overwhelmed by the process and decision.

As for OP’s specific question, I wouldn’t leave the final decision solely to your kid. For example, if your kid gets into UVA and Michigan, he doesn’t just get to say “Michigan” with no regard to the cost difference, unless the parent cares less about the price difference.

This^^^

One kid got into two schools ranked 30-45, very "similar schools" academically. One gave my kid $35K/year merit award. Other school gave no merit. Both schools cost the same (~$80K before merit). Our kid had a hard time at first making a choice, but deep down I knew that they liked the "no merit" (and higher ranked ) school better---their private counselor kept telling them, "it's hard to turn down merit like that--_$140K over the 4 years especially when the schools are so similar otherwise". I had to tell the counselor---Look finances do not matter, we can really easily afford it, so while I get that for 99% of kids, it's a no brainer, they are going to the school that is only $45K/year vs $80K. For our kid it is NOT an issue, so help them make the choice based on other factors. Counselor was shocked, but I had to impress upon her that it truly was not an issue for us. We wanted our kid to pick whatever is the best fit for them.
They picked the full price school and love it. Yes, they would be fine and happy at the other school, but I know they are likely happier where they are now.

However, had we not had the money/if finances were an issue, my kid would be attending the cheaper school. It's a no-brainer. $140K is alot of money. And in reality, is the school worth that much more? Probably not, but we can afford it and our kid is happy

There is nothing wrong with parents trying to influence, but the child should feel like she is in the driver’s seat.

Anonymous wrote:Disagree. Of course, I think the kid has the most important opinion. But as the financier and more experienced family member, the parent should have some input. And financial constraints are malleable. Many parents will make voluntary sacrifices (e.g., loans, delayed retirement, etc.) if their kid gets into, say, HYPSM that they wouldn't make for, say, Pepperdine (because their kid wants to be close to the beach). While recognizing that there are many unreasonable parents and many unreasonable kids, it should ideally be something of a team effort with the kid holding more sway.

+1

I'm not spending $400K for college just because my kid wants to go "somewhere warm with hot co-eds".

Similarly, "having a good football team" is not criteria for selecting a college. Whereas, attending a school with good school spirit can be a criteria, but it's in the lower portion of what should be looked at. After say academics, research opportunities, what majors are available should you switch your major and can you easily switch to anything you want (none of this direct admit that prevents you from switching if you want), career center and internship opportunities, then after that comes the Do you like the dorms, is the area safe, do they have the sports/activities you like, etc.
But my kid is not just going to pick SDSU because it's warm and near the beach---they need to sell me on why it's the best school for them and academics is near the top of the "why this school"

Fully decide, NO! Guidance is needed and I would hope every 17 or 18 year old would be open to receiving it. If they are not then I would question their maturity. I think there is criteria that should be respected from both parents and student and it should be a joint decision. There are thousands of schools. Everyone should work together to come up with a listing that is both financially and academically feasible.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if you can afford Harvard and the kid gets in but the kid wants to major in elementary education?

I would have to say no. The ROI just isn’t there.

But, what about the prospect of finding a future-wealthy spouse?

def don't to schools like HYP where half the kids are qualified to pay next to nothing if you want a future-wealthy spouse.

those high earning numbers of yore are gone. by major, STEM kids make the same no matter the school. ditto humanities. Ditto..everthing.

if you want a currently-wealthy, that does impact future-wealthy. for that, aim to the need aware schools.

The 'currently wealthy' rarely mix with the 'poors' with the intention of finding a future life partner. Like PP said, Tech is a great source the future wealthy and come from all walks of life and from all colleges.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if you can afford Harvard and the kid gets in but the kid wants to major in elementary education?

I would have to say no. The ROI just isn’t there.

But, what about the prospect of finding a future-wealthy spouse?

I'll buy him one of them when the time comes, too.

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