Anonymous wrote:I don't have FT help, but we grew up with a FT housekeeper. She did all the cleaning and laundry, including ironing which was a big thing back then. We also had a landscaping crew and pool guy come once per week. We had an occasional cleaner for our beach house.

We have a weekly cleaner and it's not at all the same. Our house looks good for about a day before the kids undo everything. Growing up, everything was always spotless all the time. It's so civilized and sane to have a perfectly neat house all the time without one thing out of place. I miss it.

I have a couple of friends who have this set up. It is fabulous to have such a clean and organized house all the time. I would not say you have to be super wealthy to have this set up. As PP says, they are not managing other staff. They are just there to do heavy cleaning, light cleaning, and organization. In both my friend's houses they have someone come in 10a-6p. These are not live-in staff.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a roster of tried, tested, quality and reasonably priced service providers, some of them from my own community (Indian American) - cleaners, chefs, caterers, beauticians, event decorators, servers, bartenders, landscapers, handymen, tailors, henna artists, priests, photographers, videographers, party planners, dog sitters, babysitters, tour guides, elder companions, taxi drivers, travel agents, attorneys, sales people, real estate agents etc.

We are DCUM middle class and even though my DH makes a decent amount of money, we are not wealthier because I decided to become a SAHM. I can cut off on expensive indulgences for myself, ie - no beauty parlor, no gym, no designer anything, no expensive car, no expensive house, no expensive private school for kids - but I spend money on outsourcing to the above service providers

All of this is way too excessive for me! I actually enjoy doing some of these things myself and don’t want to outsource every single aspect of my life so I can just hang out with my children (when I feel like it.)

I would prefer to spend that money on a good private school for the kids, buy a nice, comfortable (not huge) house in a good DC neighborhood and have extra money to go to the spa and travel on a regular basis. PP’s life sounds incredibly boring to me, probably just managing the staff all day.

LOL. But you do not have the money, or the good private school, or the nice comfortable cozy house in a good DC neighborhood or extra cash to go to the spa or travel. So all that you said is basically a bunch of sour grapes, no?

I outsource many chores so that I can hang out with my kids and my DH. You don't sound like you have kids. Or a social life. Or money. TBH.

And you don’t sound like you have class. Or Grace. Or tact. TBH.

Just because they are down to earth and not super pretentious does not mean they are anywhere close to being middle of the road earners. As we know, this forum has a massive bubble problem in which they think $300k-$800k just isn’t that much.

Surprise. These people are still very wealthy.

I am Indian, grew up upper middle class with dad in Army and my mom was a housewife (we were not rich by Indian standards, parents needed loans for Maruti car, had mortgage but decent well to do.. maybe an equivalent of a $200K lifestyle in an MCOL). We had TONS of help, full time, part time you name it. Gardener, landscaper, daily cook, someone who ran the errands, daily cleaners, nanny.

I moved to US but my sibling is in India. We both are doing very well, I really don't think having household help spoiled us in any way. We both have strong work ethic, stable families (no family money, parents are self sufficient). It did account for a LOT less stressful life growing up.

I see my son now in HS helping out with chores and also studying really long hours. Both DH and I work long hours and still have to shuttle kids to activities, cook, do taxes and a million other things around the home. It's much more stressful for us here than back in India.

Thank for the thread, I am now on a mission to find more help. I have been reluctant to spend on it so far, but this thread brought back memories on how less stressful my life had been while growing up. I would like to give my kids a taste of that and let them focus more on studies, EC and in general sleep vs. making them do household chores when we can afford to outsource more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a live in housekeeper until my youngest went to college. I now have a full time housekeeper but miss the live in because of the dogs. We have a clean house and home cooked lunch and dinner 5 days a week. It really helps me keep my weight down. My parents and my in-laws all have full time help. HHI 550. I don’t understand why all these folks making $850K+ don’t simplify their lives and get full time help.

We have a $3m HHI and live in a 12,000sf house. I don’t want someone in the house everyday. We have help 2x per week. I also value my kids doing chores. I have 3 kids. Yesterday, 1 kid did the dishes, 1 kid did laundry and 1 kid took out the trash.

We have a friend with similar income and lives in our neighborhood. They used to have a FT live in housekeeper and FT nanny and a driver. The kids wwre getting so spoiled, leaving socks around and not even putting their plates in the sink that they got rid of their FT housekeeper.

We have many neighbors who have FT help. One mom prides herself on not doing any housework and he daughter probably has never done a chore in her life. This is not what we want. Others are dual professionals who just want a clean house.

Anyone who lives in a 12,000sf has given up their right to judge their neighbors for spoiling their kids, IMO.

Anonymous wrote:I had a live in housekeeper until my youngest went to college. I now have a full time housekeeper but miss the live in because of the dogs. We have a clean house and home cooked lunch and dinner 5 days a week. It really helps me keep my weight down. My parents and my in-laws all have full time help. HHI 550. I don’t understand why all these folks making $850K+ don’t simplify their lives and get full time help.

We have a $3m HHI and live in a 12,000sf house. I don’t want someone in the house everyday. We have help 2x per week. I also value my kids doing chores. I have 3 kids. Yesterday, 1 kid did the dishes, 1 kid did laundry and 1 kid took out the trash.

We have a friend with similar income and lives in our neighborhood. They used to have a FT live in housekeeper and FT nanny and a driver. The kids wwre getting so spoiled, leaving socks around and not even putting their plates in the sink that they got rid of their FT housekeeper.

We have many neighbors who have FT help. One mom prides herself on not doing any housework and he daughter probably has never done a chore in her life. This is not what we want. Others are dual professionals who just want a clean house.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our nanny has stayed past the toddler years and is a full time household manager type. Like today she washed and organized everyones ski clothes, packed them away, re ordered replacements as needed, and also took one kid to a mid day orthodontist appointment. Everyday is different and i trust her to organize her duties as she sees fit, she works 4/5 shorter days or 3 long ones, whatever works for her and us. She cooks maybe 2 nights, does 90 percent of the laundry and cleaning, and also helps maintain our cars (like she took my car one day last week and got oil and filters done). Runs kids around, helps walk dogs, can run stuff to my elderly parents mid day on a whim, etc. It seems excessive but when i say there’s ALWAYS something to do, it rings true. I have 4 kids in 3 schools and 2 districts and DH and I work about 45/50 hours a week. Its a large expense for us (about 78k on a 490 combined salary) but our mortgage is very low (paid down significantly before i went in house) and i dont desire to level up or have nice vacations…not more than i desire the third adult!!! Shes a treasure and i respect and love her immensely.

Congratulations, pp. Sounds like a gem!

+1. Regular UMC people (with 2 working parents) regularly use a full-time nanny when the kids are little. Then this person sometimes transitions into more of a household manager when the kids are older. Voila - you have a "full-time house cleaner," but that person is so much more.

Our kids are 14, 19, and 21, and we still have our nanny (now household manager) for 22 hours per week. She is not a babysitter, but instead does laundry, cooking, cleaning, errands, and drives my DD to her sports practices. (Since DH and I work in the office 3-4 days per week (and WFH the other 1-2 days), she is there after school to provide supervision, and make sure that the kids did not just lay on the beds scrolling on their phones.)

We pay $27 per hour, plus for her phone ($100 per month). We give her a lot of time off and a $5000 bonus for Christmas. Our HHI is $495,000 per year, and so perhaps this sounds like a waste of money to many people, but she provides invaluable help to us, and we are so happy she's still willing to work for us.

Anonymous wrote:Our nanny has stayed past the toddler years and is a full time household manager type. Like today she washed and organized everyones ski clothes, packed them away, re ordered replacements as needed, and also took one kid to a mid day orthodontist appointment. Everyday is different and i trust her to organize her duties as she sees fit, she works 4/5 shorter days or 3 long ones, whatever works for her and us. She cooks maybe 2 nights, does 90 percent of the laundry and cleaning, and also helps maintain our cars (like she took my car one day last week and got oil and filters done). Runs kids around, helps walk dogs, can run stuff to my elderly parents mid day on a whim, etc. It seems excessive but when i say there’s ALWAYS something to do, it rings true. I have 4 kids in 3 schools and 2 districts and DH and I work about 45/50 hours a week. Its a large expense for us (about 78k on a 490 combined salary) but our mortgage is very low (paid down significantly before i went in house) and i dont desire to level up or have nice vacations…not more than i desire the third adult!!! Shes a treasure and i respect and love her immensely.

This is basically what a SAHM of school aged children does and people give us such a hard time. I think it’s great you found this person PP!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a roster of tried, tested, quality and reasonably priced service providers, some of them from my own community (Indian American) - cleaners, chefs, caterers, beauticians, event decorators, servers, bartenders, landscapers, handymen, tailors, henna artists, priests, photographers, videographers, party planners, dog sitters, babysitters, tour guides, elder companions, taxi drivers, travel agents, attorneys, sales people, real estate agents etc.

We are DCUM middle class and even though my DH makes a decent amount of money, we are not wealthier because I decided to become a SAHM. I can cut off on expensive indulgences for myself, ie - no beauty parlor, no gym, no designer anything, no expensive car, no expensive house, no expensive private school for kids - but I spend money on outsourcing to the above service providers

All of this is way too excessive for me! I actually enjoy doing some of these things myself and don’t want to outsource every single aspect of my life so I can just hang out with my children (when I feel like it.)

I would prefer to spend that money on a good private school for the kids, buy a nice, comfortable (not huge) house in a good DC neighborhood and have extra money to go to the spa and travel on a regular basis. PP’s life sounds incredibly boring to me, probably just managing the staff all day.

LOL. But you do not have the money, or the good private school, or the nice comfortable cozy house in a good DC neighborhood or extra cash to go to the spa or travel. So all that you said is basically a bunch of sour grapes, no?

I outsource many chores so that I can hang out with my kids and my DH. You don't sound like you have kids. Or a social life. Or money. TBH.

Where did you get the impression that I don’t have money? I actually have everything I listed- 2 kids in private, nice house, travel regularly and take care of myself. I also have basic help- house cleaners and a gardener, not all the nonsense that was listed in your post, which seems way over the top to me!

My friend has one. She works 5 hours a day, Monday-Friday. She does take some other jobs on top of this job. She cleans their house every morning, including dishes they've left in the sink, takes out trips, and another simple task, does the families' laundry throughout the week, puts away groceries, and does some meal prepping (my friend or her nanny cooks, but her housekeeper gets everything ready to go). I estimate their HHI is anywhere from $500k to $2m. Both parents work and they have several kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a roster of tried, tested, quality and reasonably priced service providers, some of them from my own community (Indian American) - cleaners, chefs, caterers, beauticians, event decorators, servers, bartenders, landscapers, handymen, tailors, henna artists, priests, photographers, videographers, party planners, dog sitters, babysitters, tour guides, elder companions, taxi drivers, travel agents, attorneys, sales people, real estate agents etc.

We are DCUM middle class and even though my DH makes a decent amount of money, we are not wealthier because I decided to become a SAHM. I can cut off on expensive indulgences for myself, ie - no beauty parlor, no gym, no designer anything, no expensive car, no expensive house, no expensive private school for kids - but I spend money on outsourcing to the above service providers

All of this is way too excessive for me! I actually enjoy doing some of these things myself and don’t want to outsource every single aspect of my life so I can just hang out with my children (when I feel like it.)

I would prefer to spend that money on a good private school for the kids, buy a nice, comfortable (not huge) house in a good DC neighborhood and have extra money to go to the spa and travel on a regular basis. PP’s life sounds incredibly boring to me, probably just managing the staff all day.

LOL. But you do not have the money, or the good private school, or the nice comfortable cozy house in a good DC neighborhood or extra cash to go to the spa or travel. So all that you said is basically a bunch of sour grapes, no?

I outsource many chores so that I can hang out with my kids and my DH. You don't sound like you have kids. Or a social life. Or money. TBH.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our nanny has stayed past the toddler years and is a full time household manager type. Like today she washed and organized everyones ski clothes, packed them away, re ordered replacements as needed, and also took one kid to a mid day orthodontist appointment. Everyday is different and i trust her to organize her duties as she sees fit, she works 4/5 shorter days or 3 long ones, whatever works for her and us. She cooks maybe 2 nights, does 90 percent of the laundry and cleaning, and also helps maintain our cars (like she took my car one day last week and got oil and filters done). Runs kids around, helps walk dogs, can run stuff to my elderly parents mid day on a whim, etc. It seems excessive but when i say there’s ALWAYS something to do, it rings true. I have 4 kids in 3 schools and 2 districts and DH and I work about 45/50 hours a week. Its a large expense for us (about 78k on a 490 combined salary) but our mortgage is very low (paid down significantly before i went in house) and i dont desire to level up or have nice vacations…not more than i desire the third adult!!! Shes a treasure and i respect and love her immensely.

OP here. I wonder how the math works. The $490k combined salary is gross, I assume. Since the $78k for the household employee is not tax-deductible, you need to actually make about $140k gross in order to cover her salary. If you and your spouse do not earn about the same amount of money but either of you earns less than the other, the net lower salary can be only marginally higher than the gross salary of the household employee.

Personally, if I made only about let's say $50k gross per year more than what is needed to cover the household employee's salary, I would give up my job. Working 45/50 hours per week to net a little bit (in my example around $28k per year) above the amount needed to cover the household employee's weekly at most 30 hours does not seem to be a good deal to me.

Fair point but she might like her job and prefer that to organizing clothes and getting cars maintained. Also, she sounds like a lawyer with a hood in house gig, if she gives that up, not necessarily easy to get back in later. I know people who have kept a nanny on similarly for a while but they give it up at some point.

OP here. I am actually in a similar situation. I am a lawyer, have my own law firm (with two part-time employees) and work (not bill) around 30 hours per week. While my law firm grosses $330k per year (quite high for a solo practitioner), the net amount that remains to me after expenses and taxes is only about $180 per day. On the day when my housecleaner comes and works 8-9 hours, her gross wage plus the employer contributions amount to $315! She literally makes a lot more money than I do. So frustrating. What did we go to law school for if we earn less than house cleaners? I hear that dogwalkers in my area earn up to $500 per day.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our nanny has stayed past the toddler years and is a full time household manager type. Like today she washed and organized everyones ski clothes, packed them away, re ordered replacements as needed, and also took one kid to a mid day orthodontist appointment. Everyday is different and i trust her to organize her duties as she sees fit, she works 4/5 shorter days or 3 long ones, whatever works for her and us. She cooks maybe 2 nights, does 90 percent of the laundry and cleaning, and also helps maintain our cars (like she took my car one day last week and got oil and filters done). Runs kids around, helps walk dogs, can run stuff to my elderly parents mid day on a whim, etc. It seems excessive but when i say there’s ALWAYS something to do, it rings true. I have 4 kids in 3 schools and 2 districts and DH and I work about 45/50 hours a week. Its a large expense for us (about 78k on a 490 combined salary) but our mortgage is very low (paid down significantly before i went in house) and i dont desire to level up or have nice vacations…not more than i desire the third adult!!! Shes a treasure and i respect and love her immensely.

OP here. I wonder how the math works. The $490k combined salary is gross, I assume. Since the $78k for the household employee is not tax-deductible, you need to actually make about $140k gross in order to cover her salary. If you and your spouse do not earn about the same amount of money but either of you earns less than the other, the net lower salary can be only marginally higher than the gross salary of the household employee.

Personally, if I made only about let's say $50k gross per year more than what is needed to cover the household employee's salary, I would give up my job. Working 45/50 hours per week to net a little bit (in my example around $28k per year) above the amount needed to cover the household employee's weekly at most 30 hours does not seem to be a good deal to me.

Fair point but she might like her job and prefer that to organizing clothes and getting cars maintained. Also, she sounds like a lawyer with a hood in house gig, if she gives that up, not necessarily easy to get back in later. I know people who have kept a nanny on similarly for a while but they give it up at some point.

I had a live in housekeeper until my youngest went to college. I now have a full time housekeeper but miss the live in because of the dogs. We have a clean house and home cooked lunch and dinner 5 days a week. It really helps me keep my weight down. My parents and my in-laws all have full time help. HHI 550. I don’t understand why all these folks making $850K+ don’t simplify their lives and get full time help.

When we lived in a 3rd world country when I was a kid (we were expats) we had full time household help. The first time it was one person who was a nanny/maid. The second time was a full time maid and a nearly full time gardener. Both of these were places where help was very inexpensive and where doing basic things like laundry, cooking and grocery shopping was a production. In the first place laundry was by hand and hung dry. In the second place we had a washing machine (a luxury) but not a dryer. That place was also very dusty/desert so cleaning had to be done daily.

Needless to say when we returned to the US, life was quite different.