Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 11:09     Subject: Convalescent Leave at Law Firm
Anonymous wrote:You should also never be within just a few hours of your billable requirement such that this would be an issue. People who just tick the box are first on the pile for layoffs. I always made sure to go at least 100 hours over.


Yeah op seems better suited for a gov job
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 11:06     Subject: Convalescent Leave at Law Firm
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, billable hour requirement doesn’t change unless there is a formal change to your work schedule (you go 80% or have maternity leave). Sick days, funerals, vacation. Billable requirement is the same.


OP here: If that is true, in what sense is this “paid time off”? I checked the written policy and it says bereavement leave is paid time off “treated as time worked.” I supposed it doesn’t says “billable time worked,” but then what is the point of it? The policy has different amounts of time for different relatives. What is the point if the hours requirement is the same???


I mean don’t oh work like 60 hours weeks? This is just a book keeping flag to let the partners know you are out of touch and not a slacker. You have a salary for showing up and a bonus for making the billable hours. Honestly I am surprised you even track any hours other than billable hours, nothing else really matters.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 11:03     Subject: Convalescent Leave at Law Firm
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is showing to me a serious generational gap. Maybe the entire concept of how billable hours, bonuses, etc are calculated wasn't fully explained but it sounds like OP made many false assumptions on how law firms/corporate world/ jobs in general work.

If you miss time, whether it is for vacation, sick days, bereavement, need PTO because it's a snow day and your kid's school is closed, you are expected to make up that time/work. It never would have crossed my mind that "Paid time off" = readjustment of my billable hours requirement. For ex. if billable hrs requirement is 1800 billable, and I took 80 hours vacation (2 weeks) and 40 hours of sick days (5 days over the year), my billable requirement doesn't suddenly get reduced by 120 hours to 1680. Huh? I have to make up that time, whether I work more billable some days, on weekends, or even *gasp* work some on vacation.

On my team, the younger/20 something associates are having a hard time with this sinking in and don't think this is "fair" when it comes to vacation (we have one of those you can take as much vacation as you want as long as your work gets done policies). But that's the way it is.

OP chose not to meet his/her billable REQUIREMENT (which honestly is the minimum, not an exception). Usually bonuses are based on billing over the minimum. OP has a lot to learn. Learn it, work harder, better luck in 2024. Sorry about your grandmother.


Serious question - when do you want us to make up that time? Because for parents of young children, it’s gotta come out of either sleep or childcare. We are already sleeping the bare minimum and seeing our kids max 2 hours a day. I know, it’s not your problem - that’s the whole point of your post. But see why young people (women especially) think making partner is for suckers? We don’t look up to you.


This is why I left. I didn’t realize it was the reason until I peaced out - but if I was going to put the hours of non-billable work in to make partner, it was either coming from my sleep (I slept 6-7 hrs, only because I was on a reduced schedule) or time with my family.

And there is no “be more efficient” in some practice groups and seniority levels. Some days I handled 15+ distinct matters of my own, and fielded non-billable inquiries and tasks from junior associates, partners, staff, and clients.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 10:59     Subject: Convalescent Leave at Law Firm
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, billable hour requirement doesn’t change unless there is a formal change to your work schedule (you go 80% or have maternity leave). Sick days, funerals, vacation. Billable requirement is the same.


OP here: If that is true, in what sense is this “paid time off”? I checked the written policy and it says bereavement leave is paid time off “treated as time worked.” I supposed it doesn’t says “billable time worked,” but then what is the point of it? The policy has different amounts of time for different relatives. What is the point if the hours requirement is the same???


It means you don't have to show up to the office or theoretically it means you don't have to do any work

It doesn't mean you get to detract from your billables. Vacation days don't do that either.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 10:57     Subject: Convalescent Leave at Law Firm
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is showing to me a serious generational gap. Maybe the entire concept of how billable hours, bonuses, etc are calculated wasn't fully explained but it sounds like OP made many false assumptions on how law firms/corporate world/ jobs in general work.

If you miss time, whether it is for vacation, sick days, bereavement, need PTO because it's a snow day and your kid's school is closed, you are expected to make up that time/work. It never would have crossed my mind that "Paid time off" = readjustment of my billable hours requirement. For ex. if billable hrs requirement is 1800 billable, and I took 80 hours vacation (2 weeks) and 40 hours of sick days (5 days over the year), my billable requirement doesn't suddenly get reduced by 120 hours to 1680. Huh? I have to make up that time, whether I work more billable some days, on weekends, or even *gasp* work some on vacation.

On my team, the younger/20 something associates are having a hard time with this sinking in and don't think this is "fair" when it comes to vacation (we have one of those you can take as much vacation as you want as long as your work gets done policies). But that's the way it is.

OP chose not to meet his/her billable REQUIREMENT (which honestly is the minimum, not an exception). Usually bonuses are based on billing over the minimum. OP has a lot to learn. Learn it, work harder, better luck in 2024. Sorry about your grandmother.


Serious question - when do you want us to make up that time? Because for parents of young children, it’s gotta come out of either sleep or childcare. We are already sleeping the bare minimum and seeing our kids max 2 hours a day. I know, it’s not your problem - that’s the whole point of your post. But see why young people (women especially) think making partner is for suckers? We don’t look up to you.

I was a mom in BigLaw with two little kids (ages 6 months- 4.5 years old) and routinely billed 2300 hours a year. It wasn't fun, but it's absolutely possible to bill more than 1800 or 1900 hours.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 10:54     Subject: Convalescent Leave at Law Firm
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is showing to me a serious generational gap. Maybe the entire concept of how billable hours, bonuses, etc are calculated wasn't fully explained but it sounds like OP made many false assumptions on how law firms/corporate world/ jobs in general work.

If you miss time, whether it is for vacation, sick days, bereavement, need PTO because it's a snow day and your kid's school is closed, you are expected to make up that time/work. It never would have crossed my mind that "Paid time off" = readjustment of my billable hours requirement. For ex. if billable hrs requirement is 1800 billable, and I took 80 hours vacation (2 weeks) and 40 hours of sick days (5 days over the year), my billable requirement doesn't suddenly get reduced by 120 hours to 1680. Huh? I have to make up that time, whether I work more billable some days, on weekends, or even *gasp* work some on vacation.

On my team, the younger/20 something associates are having a hard time with this sinking in and don't think this is "fair" when it comes to vacation (we have one of those you can take as much vacation as you want as long as your work gets done policies). But that's the way it is.

OP chose not to meet his/her billable REQUIREMENT (which honestly is the minimum, not an exception). Usually bonuses are based on billing over the minimum. OP has a lot to learn. Learn it, work harder, better luck in 2024. Sorry about your grandmother.


Serious question - when do you want us to make up that time? Because for parents of young children, it’s gotta come out of either sleep or childcare. We are already sleeping the bare minimum and seeing our kids max 2 hours a day. I know, it’s not your problem - that’s the whole point of your post. But see why young people (women especially) think making partner is for suckers? We don’t look up to you.


This is going to sound unkind, and I don't mean it that way, but it needs to be said:

- If you are sleeping the bare minimum and seeing your kids for 2 hours a day, and also not meeting your billable minimum, you are remarkably inefficient, and won't last long.

- Big Law starting salaries, for first year associates are $200k, sometimes more, for first year associates who know nothing. They go up from there. If you want to make that kind of money, it comes with tradeoffs. Figure it out.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 10:25     Subject: Convalescent Leave at Law Firm
Anonymous wrote:This is showing to me a serious generational gap. Maybe the entire concept of how billable hours, bonuses, etc are calculated wasn't fully explained but it sounds like OP made many false assumptions on how law firms/corporate world/ jobs in general work.

If you miss time, whether it is for vacation, sick days, bereavement, need PTO because it's a snow day and your kid's school is closed, you are expected to make up that time/work. It never would have crossed my mind that "Paid time off" = readjustment of my billable hours requirement. For ex. if billable hrs requirement is 1800 billable, and I took 80 hours vacation (2 weeks) and 40 hours of sick days (5 days over the year), my billable requirement doesn't suddenly get reduced by 120 hours to 1680. Huh? I have to make up that time, whether I work more billable some days, on weekends, or even *gasp* work some on vacation.

On my team, the younger/20 something associates are having a hard time with this sinking in and don't think this is "fair" when it comes to vacation (we have one of those you can take as much vacation as you want as long as your work gets done policies). But that's the way it is.

OP chose not to meet his/her billable REQUIREMENT (which honestly is the minimum, not an exception). Usually bonuses are based on billing over the minimum. OP has a lot to learn. Learn it, work harder, better luck in 2024. Sorry about your grandmother.


Serious question - when do you want us to make up that time? Because for parents of young children, it’s gotta come out of either sleep or childcare. We are already sleeping the bare minimum and seeing our kids max 2 hours a day. I know, it’s not your problem - that’s the whole point of your post. But see why young people (women especially) think making partner is for suckers? We don’t look up to you.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 10:15     Subject: Convalescent Leave at Law Firm
Anonymous wrote:OP here: Phew, it turns out my evaluator didn’t know the policy and actually the bereavement leave counts as billable hours. My lessons here are that at a law firm you shouldn’t assume the partners know the policies and you need to clarify everything in writing.

I know I am posting anonymously to a message board so snark comes with the territory, but why does everyone here blame the poster (or her generation)?!?! I think it’s entirely reasonable to understand “treated as time worked” means what it says. It turns out I was right.


Happy for you that it worked out but I would gently suggest you reframe how you think about your billable target going forward - you shouldn’t be within 3 days’ worth of hours away from missing it if you want to stay long term, it is the minimum.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 10:12     Subject: Convalescent Leave at Law Firm
^NP and for most large law firms the bonus is lockstep for associates. The minimum is the maximum when it comes to bonuses.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 10:03     Subject: Convalescent Leave at Law Firm
Anonymous wrote:OP here: Phew, it turns out my evaluator didn’t know the policy and actually the bereavement leave counts as billable hours. My lessons here are that at a law firm you shouldn’t assume the partners know the policies and you need to clarify everything in writing.

I know I am posting anonymously to a message board so snark comes with the territory, but why does everyone here blame the poster (or her generation)?!?! I think it’s entirely reasonable to understand “treated as time worked” means what it says. It turns out I was right.


You still don’t seem to get it. I assume that those hours were countered towards your nonbillable requirement which counts towards total hours billed. Such as a PP pointed out includes CLE time, pro bono, client development. These aren’t billable, you aren’t making the firm any money. There are no billable and no receivables.

As you get more senior, how much money you actually bill and how much is received (is it written off, did the client pay) counts the most. You need to understand the difference if you’re going to succeed in the long term. I am glad you advocated for yourself and got the result you wanted but your update shows a lack of understanding of how bonuses are calculated. It sounds like you are eligible for a bonus because you made the minimum. It doesn’t mean you will get one or a very large one. How those bonuses are calculated is important, at any job.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 09:58     Subject: Convalescent Leave at Law Firm
Anonymous wrote:You don't get a reduction in hours for bereavement. My sibling died when I was a first year associate and I was still excepted to make normal hours.


Kind of a one-off but my old firm adjusted everyone's hours for Hurricane Sandy. Obviously that was a situation where everyone couldn't work due to the flooding/power outages.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 09:27     Subject: Convalescent Leave at Law Firm
I’m glad they are honoring your hours and sorry about your grandmother, but being honest with you: you’re going to struggle in big law if you are so close to hitting hours that 24 hours will make or break you. You need to give yourself a buffer and go over so you don’t run into this again. As a PP said, these are the first associates to go when layoffs need to happen.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 09:15     Subject: Convalescent Leave at Law Firm
Anonymous wrote:OP here: Phew, it turns out my evaluator didn’t know the policy and actually the bereavement leave counts as billable hours. My lessons here are that at a law firm you shouldn’t assume the partners know the policies and you need to clarify everything in writing.

I know I am posting anonymously to a message board so snark comes with the territory, but why does everyone here blame the poster (or her generation)?!?! I think it’s entirely reasonable to understand “treated as time worked” means what it says. It turns out I was right.

former big law partner here - shocked and surprised, wish you could name the firm (but don't). But I'm happy to hear this on your behalf. Good for you for following through on this. And you're right to never assume a partner knows anything about the human workings of the firm.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 09:10     Subject: Convalescent Leave at Law Firm
OP here: Phew, it turns out my evaluator didn’t know the policy and actually the bereavement leave counts as billable hours. My lessons here are that at a law firm you shouldn’t assume the partners know the policies and you need to clarify everything in writing.

I know I am posting anonymously to a message board so snark comes with the territory, but why does everyone here blame the poster (or her generation)?!?! I think it’s entirely reasonable to understand “treated as time worked” means what it says. It turns out I was right.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 08:51     Subject: Convalescent Leave at Law Firm
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think it’s like sick days - you’re entitled to then, but taking then has no impact on billable hour requirements


THIS. I am in big law and this is my understanding of how it works. Lesson learned, make sure you understand the policy. And I don't think it is unique to law firms. Other large corporate businesses I believe would have the same policy.


I now work in fundraising and if I go on vacation, my $ goal for the month doesn't go down. Used to be a lawyer and I don't remember my billable requirements going down months when I had vacation. I think bereavement time is just sort of extra vacation, that you are only supposed to get/take for specific purposes.

BigLaw is punishing. That's why I barely lasted two years. And I was at a nice firm.


^

Also, I'm sorry about your grandmother, OP.