Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Make it legal for law abiding citizens to carry guns in most places.
2. Don’t do stupid things like tax ammo. You want people carrying guns to practice.
3. If someone commits a crime with a gun they get an extra 15 years on sentence with no chance for parole.
4. Watch gun crimes plummet.
5. Look at Switzerland and see how a country can have a strong positive gun culture - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wnBDK-QNZkM

Like #3.

I'd add criminal penalties for improper storage.

Plus an involuntary manslaughter charge if a gun you own is used by a third party to kill someone.

I support the right of people to own guns (though I think it's silly in most cases), but if you own a gun you should be held 100% responsible for it.

What kind of deterrent is #3 to a shooter who expects to be killed by the cops?

PP here.

None, but very, very few shooters fall into that category.

Also note that many of the school shooters got their hands on parents' guns, so focusing on criminal liability for the gun owners will help minimize.

Bottom line: 2A isn't going away (nor should it), but there's a LOT that can be done while still respecting 2A rights.

Looking at the ten deadliest mass shootings in modern history (https://www.axios.com/2017/12/15/deadliest-mass-shootings-modern-us-history)
Las Vegas, 2017: shooter killed himself
Orlando, 2016: shooter killed himself
Virginia Tech, 2007: shooter killed himself
Sandy Hook, 2012: shooter killed himself
Sutherland Springs, 2017: shooter killed himself
Killeen, 1991: shooter killed himself
El Paso, 2019: shooter arrested
San Ysidro, 1984: shooter killed by police
Uvalde, 2022: shooter killed by police
Lewiston, 2023: shooter killed himself

I understand that statistically, most gun victims do not die in mass shootings, but these are the incidents that get people's attention.

Also worth noting is that of the 25 shootings listed here, only one (Columbine) occurred between 1994 and 2004 when the assault weapons ban was in effect.

Hands, fist and feet have killed more people in 2022 than rifles. https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/

Anonymous wrote:There will be no gun ownershp in the US when Project 2025 happens.

If you think a dictatorship will allow the masses to have guns you are stupid

What's Proj. 2025?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I support gun control 100%, I hate guns. I wish we could get rid of all of them. Every other country that passed landmark gun ban legislation after a massacre seems to have started at a much lower baseline of guns in circulation. Even if we repealed the 2nd amendment tomorrow and banned every single type of firearm besides maybe single shot hunting rifles, how long would it take to confiscate and destroy all 430 million guns? Decades? And we have probably 20% of the country being adamantly opposed to any kind of gun ban... they won't comply. Are we completely stuck? It's depressing.

Why do you hate guns? Have you ever shot a gun? Have you ever used a gun to hunt for food? Did you know the one of the fastest growing high school sports is trap shooting - https://www.foxnews.com/sports/guns-ammo-one-americas-fastest-growing-high-school-sports-benchwarmers.amp

I've shot guns at ranges. It is stupidly boring. Hunting with a gun is also pathetic and takes not skill. Try using a bow.

There is virtually zero reason for any civilian to need something as powerful as an AR-15, which I shot at the range. It is a weapon of war. And yes, I already know most gun deaths are caused by handguns and not rifles like AR-15. Moot point.

Your opinion.

Tax ammo so each bullet costs $100.

Of course that will push people to make their own, so you can hedge against it by:

* Tightly controlling all chemicals needed to make gun powder as well as equipment needed to make bullets. The McGyvers in the crowd will point out that it won't stop people making gun powder because you can make it from charcoal, sulfur from home depot and some bird poop, which is true, but it still makes it harder to make a lot of *quality* gun powder at scale. It also makes it harder for someone to collect hundreds and thousands of rounds, which school and concert shooters always come with.

* Control casings for cartridges. Start collecting and destroying casings that could be used to make ammo. Prohibit the sale of empty casings directly to consumers. Again, people will claim they'll be able to make their own, sure, but it'll be a giant PITA for most people who won't be able to obtain enough brass to even shape *quality* cartridge casings. Most jo schmos in public won't even have the equipment nor the know how anyway to be able to press and machine precisely sized cartridge casings for everyone of their guns anyway. It's also critically important to get the thickness of casings, shapes, and leave enough space for a primer too when manufacturing casings. It's not all that easy for a novice.

* Ban the sale of primers. You can't make ammo without primers. People can try to make their own primers, but the chemistry is very dangerous and a lot harder than making gun powder. Novices will blow their fingers off trying to mess around primer chemistry. The govt can also strictly control the sale of the chemicals needed for making primers. It's also a lot harder to making primers from materials around the house or from home depot because it requires very specific types of chemical you can only really get from chemical suppliers. Again, there will probably be some McGyver out there who can figure it out from some dangerous Jerry rigged home lab, but the point is making it extremely difficult to manufacture *quality* primers at scale so they you can produce tons of ammo.

Control everything about ammo making and sale and it becomes very difficult to obtain lots of ammo to even be able to pull off mass shootings. Sure, you can own the guns, but 2A never said you have the right to affordable ammunition. Homebrewers will try to make their own ammo, some will succeed, many will give up, and many will hurt themselves or blow up their guns because they have no idea what they're doing and their quality control stinks since they're amateur chemists with no analytical equipment for batch control in quality during manufacturing.

There will be no gun ownershp in the US when Project 2025 happens.

If you think a dictatorship will allow the masses to have guns you are stupid

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m hoping we can make the gun manufacturers and gun sellers (stores, dealers) pay big every time there is a gun homicide. That money could go to services for crime victims as well as to beefing up police protection against guns. I’m spitballing here but why does society have to pay for services incurred by guns, and the corporations making profits from guns do not?

I’m also hoping for a huge tax on ammo, to go to similar services.

If the gun manufacturers and sellers take a hit every time a 6 year old’s body does, that’s a start.

I’ve seen the idea of taxing ammo mentioned. How/why is that preferable to a huge tax on the actual gun itself? Why not slam a $1K gun with $3K in taxes?

I like the ammo tax idea bc I'm of the mind that guns are so prevalent, they are extremely difficult to control. If you only apply the tax to guns, then it continues to apply all the restriction at the point of sale-- and only legal sales. If you make ammo extremely expensive, then even if a kid gets a gun from a parent's bedroom, they will struggle to get the ammo to conduct an attack. And, if they manage to get ammo, they won't find it easy to get hundreds of rounds.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Make it legal for law abiding citizens to carry guns in most places.
2. Don’t do stupid things like tax ammo. You want people carrying guns to practice.
3. If someone commits a crime with a gun they get an extra 15 years on sentence with no chance for parole.
4. Watch gun crimes plummet.
5. Look at Switzerland and see how a country can have a strong positive gun culture - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wnBDK-QNZkM

Like #3.

I'd add criminal penalties for improper storage.

Plus an involuntary manslaughter charge if a gun you own is used by a third party to kill someone.

I support the right of people to own guns (though I think it's silly in most cases), but if you own a gun you should be held 100% responsible for it.

What kind of deterrent is #3 to a shooter who expects to be killed by the cops?

PP here.

None, but very, very few shooters fall into that category.

Also note that many of the school shooters got their hands on parents' guns, so focusing on criminal liability for the gun owners will help minimize.

Bottom line: 2A isn't going away (nor should it), but there's a LOT that can be done while still respecting 2A rights.

Looking at the ten deadliest mass shootings in modern history (https://www.axios.com/2017/12/15/deadliest-mass-shootings-modern-us-history)
Las Vegas, 2017: shooter killed himself
Orlando, 2016: shooter killed himself
Virginia Tech, 2007: shooter killed himself
Sandy Hook, 2012: shooter killed himself
Sutherland Springs, 2017: shooter killed himself
Killeen, 1991: shooter killed himself
El Paso, 2019: shooter arrested
San Ysidro, 1984: shooter killed by police
Uvalde, 2022: shooter killed by police
Lewiston, 2023: shooter killed himself

I understand that statistically, most gun victims do not die in mass shootings, but these are the incidents that get people's attention.

Also worth noting is that of the 25 shootings listed here, only one (Columbine) occurred between 1994 and 2004 when the assault weapons ban was in effect.

Your last point is very interesting.

Anonymous wrote:I’m hoping we can make the gun manufacturers and gun sellers (stores, dealers) pay big every time there is a gun homicide. That money could go to services for crime victims as well as to beefing up police protection against guns. I’m spitballing here but why does society have to pay for services incurred by guns, and the corporations making profits from guns do not?

I’m also hoping for a huge tax on ammo, to go to similar services.

If the gun manufacturers and sellers take a hit every time a 6 year old’s body does, that’s a start.

I’ve seen the idea of taxing ammo mentioned. How/why is that preferable to a huge tax on the actual gun itself? Why not slam a $1K gun with $3K in taxes?

Anonymous wrote:I support gun control 100%, I hate guns. I wish we could get rid of all of them. Every other country that passed landmark gun ban legislation after a massacre seems to have started at a much lower baseline of guns in circulation. Even if we repealed the 2nd amendment tomorrow and banned every single type of firearm besides maybe single shot hunting rifles, how long would it take to confiscate and destroy all 430 million guns? Decades? And we have probably 20% of the country being adamantly opposed to any kind of gun ban... they won't comply. Are we completely stuck? It's depressing.

I'm not sure the number of guns reflects the problems we are seeing with guns. The vast majority of those guns are owned by responsible, law-abiding people and will never be associated with crime, suicide, or a mass shooting. That said, there are things we could do to help keep firearms out of the hands of people who have no business having them, none of which would infringe on our rights under the 2nd Amendment (keeping in mind inconvenience does not equal "infringement"). In no particular order:

- Mandatory "cooling down" periods before a buyer can take possession of a firearm - it could be as little as a few hours, just to weed out the hotheads looking to pop off after losing their temper;

- Mandatory training in both safe firearms handling and the legal issues surrounding use of firearms (what constitutes self defense under the law, etc.);

- Mandatory ownership of gun safes and/or trigger guards;

- Mandatory purchase of liability insurance;

- Mandatory reporting of all transfers of ownership, including long-term loans, whether by sale, gift or inheritance;

- Prohibition on short-term loan of firearms where the registered owner won't be present at all times;

- Mandatory mental health and criminal background checks to qualify for legal gun ownership;

- Harsher penalties for crimes involving use of a firearm (already in place in many/most jurisdictions, I think);

- Ending the prohibition on the CDC studying gun incidents as a public health issue;

- Including questions about guns in the home as part of the standard Doctor's questionnaire, just like with smoking and alcohol use.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Make it legal for law abiding citizens to carry guns in most places.
2. Don’t do stupid things like tax ammo. You want people carrying guns to practice.
3. If someone commits a crime with a gun they get an extra 15 years on sentence with no chance for parole.
4. Watch gun crimes plummet.
5. Look at Switzerland and see how a country can have a strong positive gun culture - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wnBDK-QNZkM

Like #3.

I'd add criminal penalties for improper storage.

Plus an involuntary manslaughter charge if a gun you own is used by a third party to kill someone.

I support the right of people to own guns (though I think it's silly in most cases), but if you own a gun you should be held 100% responsible for it.

What kind of deterrent is #3 to a shooter who expects to be killed by the cops?

PP here.

None, but very, very few shooters fall into that category.

Also note that many of the school shooters got their hands on parents' guns, so focusing on criminal liability for the gun owners will help minimize.

Bottom line: 2A isn't going away (nor should it), but there's a LOT that can be done while still respecting 2A rights.

Looking at the ten deadliest mass shootings in modern history (https://www.axios.com/2017/12/15/deadliest-mass-shootings-modern-us-history)
Las Vegas, 2017: shooter killed himself
Orlando, 2016: shooter killed himself
Virginia Tech, 2007: shooter killed himself
Sandy Hook, 2012: shooter killed himself
Sutherland Springs, 2017: shooter killed himself
Killeen, 1991: shooter killed himself
El Paso, 2019: shooter arrested
San Ysidro, 1984: shooter killed by police
Uvalde, 2022: shooter killed by police
Lewiston, 2023: shooter killed himself

I understand that statistically, most gun victims do not die in mass shootings, but these are the incidents that get people's attention.

Also worth noting is that of the 25 shootings listed here, only one (Columbine) occurred between 1994 and 2004 when the assault weapons ban was in effect.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Make it legal for law abiding citizens to carry guns in most places.
2. Don’t do stupid things like tax ammo. You want people carrying guns to practice.
3. If someone commits a crime with a gun they get an extra 15 years on sentence with no chance for parole.
4. Watch gun crimes plummet.
5. Look at Switzerland and see how a country can have a strong positive gun culture - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wnBDK-QNZkM

Like #3.

I'd add criminal penalties for improper storage.

Plus an involuntary manslaughter charge if a gun you own is used by a third party to kill someone.

I support the right of people to own guns (though I think it's silly in most cases), but if you own a gun you should be held 100% responsible for it.

What kind of deterrent is #3 to a shooter who expects to be killed by the cops?

PP here.

None, but very, very few shooters fall into that category.

Also note that many of the school shooters got their hands on parents' guns, so focusing on criminal liability for the gun owners will help minimize.

Bottom line: 2A isn't going away (nor should it), but there's a LOT that can be done while still respecting 2A rights.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I support gun control 100%, I hate guns. I wish we could get rid of all of them. Every other country that passed landmark gun ban legislation after a massacre seems to have started at a much lower baseline of guns in circulation. Even if we repealed the 2nd amendment tomorrow and banned every single type of firearm besides maybe single shot hunting rifles, how long would it take to confiscate and destroy all 430 million guns? Decades? And we have probably 20% of the country being adamantly opposed to any kind of gun ban... they won't comply. Are we completely stuck? It's depressing.

Why do you hate guns? Have you ever shot a gun? Have you ever used a gun to hunt for food? Did you know the one of the fastest growing high school sports is trap shooting - https://www.foxnews.com/sports/guns-ammo-one-americas-fastest-growing-high-school-sports-benchwarmers.amp

DP I hate guns because of all the pain and suffering that guns have made so much easier to inflict on human beings.

—someone who has lost a loved one to gun violence.

I hate guns because two kids decided that it would be fun to see if heads ready exploded with assault rifles and murdered my brother-in-law. Fortunately, my sister was not at home. The two also murdered the owner of a store when they robbed him shortly after murdering my BIL. Are you getting an idea if why some of us hate guns? It could happen to your children any school, church, Synagogue, Mosque, shopping center
Watch yourself because no one is Teflon!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I support gun control 100%, I hate guns. I wish we could get rid of all of them. Every other country that passed landmark gun ban legislation after a massacre seems to have started at a much lower baseline of guns in circulation. Even if we repealed the 2nd amendment tomorrow and banned every single type of firearm besides maybe single shot hunting rifles, how long would it take to confiscate and destroy all 430 million guns? Decades? And we have probably 20% of the country being adamantly opposed to any kind of gun ban... they won't comply. Are we completely stuck? It's depressing.

Why do you hate guns? Have you ever shot a gun? Have you ever used a gun to hunt for food? Did you know the one of the fastest growing high school sports is trap shooting - https://www.foxnews.com/sports/guns-ammo-one-americas-fastest-growing-high-school-sports-benchwarmers.amp

DP I hate guns because of all the pain and suffering that guns have made so much easier to inflict on human beings.

—someone who has lost a loved one to gun violence.

—I feel that way about cars and liquor- someone who has lost several loved ones to a drunk driver

Gun owners tell us that gun owners are law abiding citizens. So, we could pass laws restricting ownership. Some people - probably leftists - say that such laws would cause gun owners to stop being law abiding and, instead, become people who would murder police officers if they tried to enforce the law. But, if -as we've been told - gun owners are law abiding citizens, they would abide by the law.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Make it legal for law abiding citizens to carry guns in most places.
2. Don’t do stupid things like tax ammo. You want people carrying guns to practice.
3. If someone commits a crime with a gun they get an extra 15 years on sentence with no chance for parole.
4. Watch gun crimes plummet.
5. Look at Switzerland and see how a country can have a strong positive gun culture - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wnBDK-QNZkM

Like #3.

I'd add criminal penalties for improper storage.

Plus an involuntary manslaughter charge if a gun you own is used by a third party to kill someone.

I support the right of people to own guns (though I think it's silly in most cases), but if you own a gun you should be held 100% responsible for it.

What kind of deterrent is #3 to a shooter who expects to be killed by the cops?