paid way too much back in 2002 for house in good school zone. could only do this bcs we were two professional adults with advanced degrees and no debt.

let secure school environment, talented educators, and strong peer group do their magic.

took part in local sports teams, swim lessons, court time available to us via well resourced community.

kids spent some part of every summer at sleep away summer camp, developing interests, fostering independents, and building lifelong friendships.

Disney. Paris. London. Mexico City. San Francisco. NYC. Montreal. Barcelona .. took advantage of breaks and low fares when we found them.

sent our kids to some of the top high schools in the country, due to our home address. music, theater, AP classes, robotics teams, debate, and sports all offered on site.


able to spent two different breaks touring colleges. also detoured to see campuses when we were visiting family in Chicago, LA, Palo Alto, etc.

Family dinner every night.

Let me think .. no, no private college counselor and no pay for play summer program. So I guess you could said we did nothing?

I don't think we had a single conversation about college til they were 14 or 15.

Did SAT prep via Kahn academy which I suspect some people don't think "counts" cause it's free, but it's time invested. I cast no judgement if people paid.

We have been walking that walk with our kids and I know what you mean. I had the strength of my convictions but started to waver when I realized my kids’ peers were all taking SAT test prep classes and working with college essay counselors etc. stick with it, OP. You’re doing the right thing. It’s like when I stuck to my guns about other parenting stuff- and would occasionally worry that i was being too strict or whatever- and in the end I was SO glad I did.

Four kids- 1 at an Ivy, one at a state school. Two in high school. It really does all work out. Where you go to college is not who you are. It is the start of their lives- not the end!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We did All the Things, except we did them too late thanks to a combination of cluelessness and the pandemic. You may have kids who can position themselves for future success without any parental guidance from 14-1. I don't. No regrets except the late start, which we've remedied with kid 2.

And btw, my emphasis is not primarily about money - you don't have to pay for tutors/test prep etc. But you do have to be aware of the landscape for college admissions, which is radically different than whatever today's parents experienced, no matter what their age. And if your kid is in a DMV public school, they have no meaningful counseling services for kids applying to college.

So yes, they may figure out a path on their own, but why would you have kids and presumably spend a lot of time and money guiding them through all the key stages of childhood and then wash your hands of it all just when their future is on the line?

This is like doomsday thinking. Undergrad isn’t making or breaking anyone.

Undergrad made a huge difference in my life. I was from a tiny town and wound up at a great school by luck and the wildly easy admission rates of the 1980s. I wouldn't have my career or anything like it if I hadn't had the opportunities that came my way. My parents didn't hover but they did pay attention. I do too. Some kids will find their way without help, but not every kid. Being informed and providing guidance to your kids around what is the biggest decision they will make in their young lives and the biggest financial investment that many of us will make in their development is not doomsday thinking - it's responsible parenting.

Choosing your kid's major and school for them is the exact opposite of responsible parenting. If your kid is unable to choose their major and/or college, that is a much, much bigger issue.

Where did OP say they were choosing their kids' school and major for them?

PP here. Responsible parenting means not being checked out on major life decisions of your kids up to age 18. My kid did choose his own major. But we had plenty of input into the school he chose, because we're paying. Oh, and because we're adults with decades more life experience and know our kid well. He loves his school btw. If you think parents should have zero opinion or input into where their kids go to school, I assume your kids have trust funds or something else to cover four years of tuition and housing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We did All the Things, except we did them too late thanks to a combination of cluelessness and the pandemic. You may have kids who can position themselves for future success without any parental guidance from 14-1. I don't. No regrets except the late start, which we've remedied with kid 2.

And btw, my emphasis is not primarily about money - you don't have to pay for tutors/test prep etc. But you do have to be aware of the landscape for college admissions, which is radically different than whatever today's parents experienced, no matter what their age. And if your kid is in a DMV public school, they have no meaningful counseling services for kids applying to college.

So yes, they may figure out a path on their own, but why would you have kids and presumably spend a lot of time and money guiding them through all the key stages of childhood and then wash your hands of it all just when their future is on the line?

This is like doomsday thinking. Undergrad isn’t making or breaking anyone.

Undergrad made a huge difference in my life. I was from a tiny town and wound up at a great school by luck and the wildly easy admission rates of the 1980s. I wouldn't have my career or anything like it if I hadn't had the opportunities that came my way. My parents didn't hover but they did pay attention. I do too. Some kids will find their way without help, but not every kid. Being informed and providing guidance to your kids around what is the biggest decision they will make in their young lives and the biggest financial investment that many of us will make in their development is not doomsday thinking - it's responsible parenting.

Choosing your kid's major and school for them is the exact opposite of responsible parenting. If your kid is unable to choose their major and/or college, that is a much, much bigger issue.

Where did OP say they were choosing their kids' school and major for them?

Happens more than you know.

Straight A kids in most "advanced" track with little effort. How? We told them they need to get good grades. It's not that hard to ask if they did their homework and check in on progress throughout the school year.

One sport and one extracurricular (think drama or instrument), by choice. None of which will make any difference in their apps. no captains/chairs/leads. Just for fun.

We encouraged reading novels early (trips to the library and reading to them almost every night when they were young), and now they do it by choice because they enjoy it. This is what I believe has made all the difference in everything academic.

Will pay for some kind of SAT prep materials/class in a year or so. It's a test; you should study for it.

Otherwise, that's it. Just engaging and being aware is all you need to do to raise academically capable kids with a reasonable college future.

We are donut hole and will not be paying for anything other than in-state rates, so JMU/GMU/VT are fine for us assuming everything holds.

What some people refuse to understand is how this ties into their bottom line.

Statistically, college can cost significantly less for a student with strong academics. I know kids with 4.2 wGPA/multiple APs/ solid ECs who were rejected from UMD. UVA is even more selective.

If you can get significant merit, or get into a selective in-state flagship, it makes a difference for most families' long-term finances.

So your retirement, your ability to help your kids in the future (car, downpayment on a home), your ability to pay for eldercare (yours or someone else's)... is going to be impacted by your child's grades and general success in college admissions.

This isn't about getting into the most prestigious college. It's preserving wealth over the long-term.

I feel that a lot of parents who can "technically" afford any college, or who are considering taking out loans, don't have enough financial perspective on their choices.

So in that context, OP's principles seem a tad bit short-sighted.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm SUCH a GREAT parent! I say NO to the hamster wheel before my kids even start their careers! They're not the greatest at math and writing, but I have REFUSED to pay for a tutor, even though they know I can afford one! Because I am NOT a sheep! This will ensure they maximize their chance at Life! And by Life, I mean stuck at a no-name private university they don't like, while I pay through the nose because I'm too rich for financial aid, and too stupid for merit aid. My kids are going to be rejected from their state flagship, which have become unaccountably selective (people told me, but I didn't believe it), and I'm too proud to get them into the lesser state colleges! I've been warned about this multiple times on DCUM, but I'm contrary and PROUD of it.

#WINNING.

Fun thing, with good grades and a few honest interest EC (that can entail some form of leadership or prizes), kids still get into state flagships. Not everybody needs tutors and college counselors.

Your post comes across as a plain attempt to create controversy or flame war.

It was a satirical take on OP. Was it the hashtag that tipped you off? Are you entirely devoid of humor?

Did it hit too close to home for it to be funny? Looks like it did for a few posters.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We did All the Things, except we did them too late thanks to a combination of cluelessness and the pandemic. You may have kids who can position themselves for future success without any parental guidance from 14-1. I don't. No regrets except the late start, which we've remedied with kid 2.

And btw, my emphasis is not primarily about money - you don't have to pay for tutors/test prep etc. But you do have to be aware of the landscape for college admissions, which is radically different than whatever today's parents experienced, no matter what their age. And if your kid is in a DMV public school, they have no meaningful counseling services for kids applying to college.

So yes, they may figure out a path on their own, but why would you have kids and presumably spend a lot of time and money guiding them through all the key stages of childhood and then wash your hands of it all just when their future is on the line?

This is like doomsday thinking. Undergrad isn’t making or breaking anyone.

Undergrad made a huge difference in my life. I was from a tiny town and wound up at a great school by luck and the wildly easy admission rates of the 1980s. I wouldn't have my career or anything like it if I hadn't had the opportunities that came my way. My parents didn't hover but they did pay attention. I do too. Some kids will find their way without help, but not every kid. Being informed and providing guidance to your kids around what is the biggest decision they will make in their young lives and the biggest financial investment that many of us will make in their development is not doomsday thinking - it's responsible parenting.

Choosing your kid's major and school for them is the exact opposite of responsible parenting. If your kid is unable to choose their major and/or college, that is a much, much bigger issue.

Where did OP say they were choosing their kids' school and major for them?

My parenting philosophy has always been that it is my job to protect my kids' future and keep as many doors open for them as possible.

When they were tiny that meant physical safety to protect from injury with long term consequences. As they grew it meant encouraging social skills, self-reliance, and executive functioning. As teens it means making sure they don't make really dumb choices that put them in danger, while learning to take risks and stretch themselves. Academically it means pushing them to do the best they can- in classes, in their *chosen* ECs, and to find a good balance of fun and future-building. When it comes to college, that means that I will absolutely pay for test prep and a few hours with a college counselor, and that I will do a lot of my own research to help guide them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm SUCH a GREAT parent! I say NO to the hamster wheel before my kids even start their careers! They're not the greatest at math and writing, but I have REFUSED to pay for a tutor, even though they know I can afford one! Because I am NOT a sheep! This will ensure they maximize their chance at Life! And by Life, I mean stuck at a no-name private university they don't like, while I pay through the nose because I'm too rich for financial aid, and too stupid for merit aid. My kids are going to be rejected from their state flagship, which have become unaccountably selective (people told me, but I didn't believe it), and I'm too proud to get them into the lesser state colleges! I've been warned about this multiple times on DCUM, but I'm contrary and PROUD of it.

#WINNING.

Wait, you think the state schools are good? Maybe UMD?

For a mediocre student, it's much better to send them to a cheap state college than spend more than double for an out of state non-selective private.

But some families would rather pay that rather than send their kid to state colleges that aren't UMD or UVA level (yes in case you missed it, UMD is getting progressively more selective, because of its STEM. Not UVA level yet, of course). Indeed, I know posters on here who have written they'd rather send their kids to non-selective privates than have them attend community college, if they couldn't get in anywhere else. For the "campus experience". Now that's one expensive 60-80K a year campus experience!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We did All the Things, except we did them too late thanks to a combination of cluelessness and the pandemic. You may have kids who can position themselves for future success without any parental guidance from 14-1. I don't. No regrets except the late start, which we've remedied with kid 2.

And btw, my emphasis is not primarily about money - you don't have to pay for tutors/test prep etc. But you do have to be aware of the landscape for college admissions, which is radically different than whatever today's parents experienced, no matter what their age. And if your kid is in a DMV public school, they have no meaningful counseling services for kids applying to college.

So yes, they may figure out a path on their own, but why would you have kids and presumably spend a lot of time and money guiding them through all the key stages of childhood and then wash your hands of it all just when their future is on the line?

This is like doomsday thinking. Undergrad isn’t making or breaking anyone.

Undergrad made a huge difference in my life. I was from a tiny town and wound up at a great school by luck and the wildly easy admission rates of the 1980s. I wouldn't have my career or anything like it if I hadn't had the opportunities that came my way. My parents didn't hover but they did pay attention. I do too. Some kids will find their way without help, but not every kid. Being informed and providing guidance to your kids around what is the biggest decision they will make in their young lives and the biggest financial investment that many of us will make in their development is not doomsday thinking - it's responsible parenting.

Choosing your kid's major and school for them is the exact opposite of responsible parenting. If your kid is unable to choose their major and/or college, that is a much, much bigger issue.

The flip side of 'there's a place for everyone' is you must make your place when you get there. We took a fairly hands off approach. My DC went to a smaller school (that for some reason gets heavily trolled around here) and did well. Had meaningful relationships with professors. Found a major she wasn't looking at going in. Found a job in the field even though it's not stem, etc. But it's not that everyone at her school did the same.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm SUCH a GREAT parent! I say NO to the hamster wheel before my kids even start their careers! They're not the greatest at math and writing, but I have REFUSED to pay for a tutor, even though they know I can afford one! Because I am NOT a sheep! This will ensure they maximize their chance at Life! And by Life, I mean stuck at a no-name private university they don't like, while I pay through the nose because I'm too rich for financial aid, and too stupid for merit aid. My kids are going to be rejected from their state flagship, which have become unaccountably selective (people told me, but I didn't believe it), and I'm too proud to get them into the lesser state colleges! I've been warned about this multiple times on DCUM, but I'm contrary and PROUD of it.

#WINNING.

Oh shoot, all that money you could have saved from tutoring could have gone to a better college.

Tutoring: $100/hr, let's say $15,000 for four years for various subjects.
Private university: $70,000/yr without merit aid

I'll pay for tutoring, thank you. Even if the merit aid is equal to what I paid for tutoring, my kid comes out ahead because they're better prepared for college. They might get college credit for certain AP exams too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We did All the Things, except we did them too late thanks to a combination of cluelessness and the pandemic. You may have kids who can position themselves for future success without any parental guidance from 14-1. I don't. No regrets except the late start, which we've remedied with kid 2.

And btw, my emphasis is not primarily about money - you don't have to pay for tutors/test prep etc. But you do have to be aware of the landscape for college admissions, which is radically different than whatever today's parents experienced, no matter what their age. And if your kid is in a DMV public school, they have no meaningful counseling services for kids applying to college.

So yes, they may figure out a path on their own, but why would you have kids and presumably spend a lot of time and money guiding them through all the key stages of childhood and then wash your hands of it all just when their future is on the line?

This is like doomsday thinking. Undergrad isn’t making or breaking anyone.

Undergrad made a huge difference in my life. I was from a tiny town and wound up at a great school by luck and the wildly easy admission rates of the 1980s. I wouldn't have my career or anything like it if I hadn't had the opportunities that came my way. My parents didn't hover but they did pay attention. I do too. Some kids will find their way without help, but not every kid. Being informed and providing guidance to your kids around what is the biggest decision they will make in their young lives and the biggest financial investment that many of us will make in their development is not doomsday thinking - it's responsible parenting.