Anonymous
01/23/2024 10:25
Subject: AP vs DE?
Loudoun offers DE Bio, Physics, Chem, and Multivariable Calc. Many students graduate early due to their DE Credit
Anonymous
01/11/2024 00:12
Subject: AP vs DE?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:FCPS offers two categories of Dual Enrollment courses. The first category consists of courses that are below AP level rigor, serving as motivation and allowing early course completion for NOVA Community College degree. However, these courses lack value for first year/first time applicants to competitive four-year university colleges. For instance, Precalculus with Trigonometry DE (3160DE) is below the rigor of AP Calculus BC, making it of less value compared to taking it as an honors course in high school and following up with subsequent AP course with 4 or 5 exam score.
On the other hand, the second category of DE courses offered by FCPS include post-AP courses. These courses, such as Multivariable Calculus DE (3178DE), are notable additions to a competitive college application. Multivariable Calculus DE is a GMU course, and taking it requires completing AP Calc BC as a prerequisite. Opting for these post-AP DE courses demonstrates to competitive four year colleges that the student has surpassed the AP level rigor, demonstrating a higher academic achievement.[/quote
Great theory except for the minor detail that FCPS weighs AP and DE exactly the same in the GPA. 1 point bonus for both.
Precalc/Trig has less rigor than Calc whether you learn it Honors, AP, DE, or from a hobo on the bus. It’s different content and a precursor course!
Same issue with a post AP course. Those are the “201” classes to the AP’s “101” classes. Obviously harder classes with advanced content are more appealing to selective schools.
The question is actually:
Is there a difference (other than the AP Test which is an additional data point to selective colleges) in taking AP English versus a DE English Lit course?
FCPS weighting says no.
Colleges have no way of knowing whether a local community college course is more rigorous than AP or not. But they certainly know what AP courses are challenging and what a high score of 5 demonstrates. Hence they use the common yard scale of AP scores to compare applicants.
Somehow they know exactly how rigorous a community college course is when it’s time for transfer applications.
Try again. Tons of kids don’t even take the AP test despite taking the courses.
Competitive college applicants nationwide demonstrate proficiency by taking about 10 to 14 rigorous AP exams. how many DEs are practically offered equivalent to this rigor at FCPS? May be 1 or 2?
Anonymous
01/11/2024 00:03
Subject: AP vs DE?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:FCPS offers two categories of Dual Enrollment courses. The first category consists of courses that are below AP level rigor, serving as motivation and allowing early course completion for NOVA Community College degree. However, these courses lack value for first year/first time applicants to competitive four-year university colleges. For instance, Precalculus with Trigonometry DE (3160DE) is below the rigor of AP Calculus BC, making it of less value compared to taking it as an honors course in high school and following up with subsequent AP course with 4 or 5 exam score.
On the other hand, the second category of DE courses offered by FCPS include post-AP courses. These courses, such as Multivariable Calculus DE (3178DE), are notable additions to a competitive college application. Multivariable Calculus DE is a GMU course, and taking it requires completing AP Calc BC as a prerequisite. Opting for these post-AP DE courses demonstrates to competitive four year colleges that the student has surpassed the AP level rigor, demonstrating a higher academic achievement.[/quote
Great theory except for the minor detail that FCPS weighs AP and DE exactly the same in the GPA. 1 point bonus for both.
Precalc/Trig has less rigor than Calc whether you learn it Honors, AP, DE, or from a hobo on the bus. It’s different content and a precursor course!
Same issue with a post AP course. Those are the “201” classes to the AP’s “101” classes. Obviously harder classes with advanced content are more appealing to selective schools.
The question is actually:
Is there a difference (other than the AP Test which is an additional data point to selective colleges) in taking AP English versus a DE English Lit course?
FCPS weighting says no.
Colleges have no way of knowing whether a local community college course is more rigorous than AP or not. But they certainly know what AP courses are challenging and what a high score of 5 demonstrates. Hence they use the common yard scale of AP scores to compare applicants. [/quote
Somehow they know exactly how rigorous a community college course is when it’s time for transfer applications.
Try again. Tons of kids don’t even take the AP test despite taking the courses.
Anonymous
01/10/2024 23:54
Subject: AP vs DE?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:FCPS offers two categories of Dual Enrollment courses. The first category consists of courses that are below AP level rigor, serving as motivation and allowing early course completion for NOVA Community College degree. However, these courses lack value for first year/first time applicants to competitive four-year university colleges. For instance, Precalculus with Trigonometry DE (3160DE) is below the rigor of AP Calculus BC, making it of less value compared to taking it as an honors course in high school and following up with subsequent AP course with 4 or 5 exam score.
On the other hand, the second category of DE courses offered by FCPS include post-AP courses. These courses, such as Multivariable Calculus DE (3178DE), are notable additions to a competitive college application. Multivariable Calculus DE is a GMU course, and taking it requires completing AP Calc BC as a prerequisite. Opting for these post-AP DE courses demonstrates to competitive four year colleges that the student has surpassed the AP level rigor, demonstrating a higher academic achievement.[/quote
Great theory except for the minor detail that FCPS weighs AP and DE exactly the same in the GPA. 1 point bonus for both.
Precalc/Trig has less rigor than Calc whether you learn it Honors, AP, DE, or from a hobo on the bus. It’s different content and a precursor course!
Same issue with a post AP course. Those are the “201” classes to the AP’s “101” classes. Obviously harder classes with advanced content are more appealing to selective schools.
The question is actually:
Is there a difference (other than the AP Test which is an additional data point to selective colleges) in taking AP English versus a DE English Lit course?
FCPS weighting says no.
Colleges have no way of knowing whether a local community college course is more rigorous than AP or not. But they certainly know what AP courses are challenging and what a high score of 5 demonstrates. Hence they use the common yard scale of AP scores to compare applicants.
Anonymous
01/10/2024 23:34
Subject: AP vs DE?
Anonymous wrote:FCPS offers two categories of Dual Enrollment courses. The first category consists of courses that are below AP level rigor, serving as motivation and allowing early course completion for NOVA Community College degree. However, these courses lack value for first year/first time applicants to competitive four-year university colleges. For instance, Precalculus with Trigonometry DE (3160DE) is below the rigor of AP Calculus BC, making it of less value compared to taking it as an honors course in high school and following up with subsequent AP course with 4 or 5 exam score.
On the other hand, the second category of DE courses offered by FCPS include post-AP courses. These courses, such as Multivariable Calculus DE (3178DE), are notable additions to a competitive college application. Multivariable Calculus DE is a GMU course, and taking it requires completing AP Calc BC as a prerequisite. Opting for these post-AP DE courses demonstrates to competitive four year colleges that the student has surpassed the AP level rigor, demonstrating a higher academic achievement.[/quote
Great theory except for the minor detail that FCPS weighs AP and DE exactly the same in the GPA. 1 point bonus for both.
Precalc/Trig has less rigor than Calc whether you learn it Honors, AP, DE, or from a hobo on the bus. It’s different content and a precursor course!
Same issue with a post AP course. Those are the “201” classes to the AP’s “101” classes. Obviously harder classes with advanced content are more appealing to selective schools.
The question is actually:
Is there a difference (other than the AP Test which is an additional data point to selective colleges) in taking AP English versus a DE English Lit course?
FCPS weighting says no.
Anonymous
01/10/2024 23:25
Subject: AP vs DE?
FCPS offers two categories of Dual Enrollment courses. The first category consists of courses that are below AP level rigor, serving as motivation and allowing early course completion for NOVA Community College degree. However, these courses lack value for first year/first time applicants to competitive four-year university colleges. For instance, Precalculus with Trigonometry DE (3160DE) is below the rigor of AP Calculus BC, making it of less value compared to taking it as an honors course in high school and following up with subsequent AP course with 4 or 5 exam score.
On the other hand, the second category of DE courses offered by FCPS include post-AP courses. These courses, such as Multivariable Calculus DE (3178DE), are notable additions to a competitive college application. Multivariable Calculus DE is a GMU course, and taking it requires completing AP Calc BC as a prerequisite. Opting for these post-AP DE courses demonstrates to competitive four year colleges that the student has surpassed the AP level rigor, demonstrating a higher academic achievement.
On the other hand, the second category of DE courses offered by FCPS include post-AP courses. These courses, such as Multivariable Calculus DE (3178DE), are notable additions to a competitive college application. Multivariable Calculus DE is a GMU course, and taking it requires completing AP Calc BC as a prerequisite. Opting for these post-AP DE courses demonstrates to competitive four year colleges that the student has surpassed the AP level rigor, demonstrating a higher academic achievement.
Anonymous
01/10/2024 13:47
Subject: Re:AP vs DE?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Eh, disagree with the prior posters. Yale considers these all equal: AP, de and IB
They do not consider them equal. Student effort matters and is recognized accordingly.
The more competitive the university the more stringent their criteria. At yale, even an AP score of 5 in AP Chemistry, AP CS A, Physics 1 or 2, Macro/micro, etc... dont mean a thing. For that matter a 4 in AP English Lang and AP Lit is ignored.
They only consider a 5 in AP US history, AP English Lang, Lit, 4 or 5 in World Language, 5 in Physics C, 4 o 5 in Calc BC.
https://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/table-of-acceleration-credit/
No, you’re wrong. You’re looking at whether the kid gets credit for the classes. Quoting Yale (which confirms what I said):
Admissions officers are familiar with various types of advanced coursework, including AP, IB, A-Levels, Dual Enrollment, and others, but have no preference for one advanced curriculum over another. We also understand that the availability of advanced coursework varies significantly from school to school. For matriculating students, top scores on AP or IB exams can, in some cases, be used for the purposes of course placement or acceleration (i.e. completing the requirements for an undergraduate degree in fewer than 8 semesters). Details of the Yale College policies on acceleration are available in the Yale College Programs of Study.
Link:
https://admissions.yale.edu/faq/applying-yale-college#faq_category_page-page-14
Colleges expect students to take the most rigorous coursework accessible at their school system. Yale knows that FCPS offers AP courses, and receives a ton of FCPS applicants having taken the most challenging AP exams scoring a 4 or 5. And then they may receive a few fcps applicants who avoided taking the challenging AP course offered to them and instead enrolled in a community college DE course for a GPA bump. Who do you think they would select?
I've pointed to exactly what Yale has said. You're making a guess. The school has said they equate DE and AP classes the exact same. But, you know better, right?
Top 10% of FCPS take the most rigorous APs. Once they have all their 4s and 5s accomplished, then go for post AP DE classes. Competitive universities receive applications from such top 10% from various school systems in addition to FCPS. And then there are wishful FCPS applicants trying their luck with one or two substitute DE courses for basic subjects and no worthwhile APs. Good luck to them competing with the top 10% from their own school system and others.
Folks, please listen up. We've found someone who knows more than the Yale admissions office. Take heed.
Okay bear with me a moment but what if your kid is not some kind of Doogie Howser and isn’t applying only to Ivies and Oxbridge and just wants to know if the AO will go “okay” or “seems sus” at a regular person school.
All people can say is their guess. It’ll be school dependent and course dependent. It will depend what else the kid did in HS for classes and ECs and essays.
Anonymous
01/10/2024 13:40
Subject: Re:AP vs DE?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Eh, disagree with the prior posters. Yale considers these all equal: AP, de and IB
They do not consider them equal. Student effort matters and is recognized accordingly.
The more competitive the university the more stringent their criteria. At yale, even an AP score of 5 in AP Chemistry, AP CS A, Physics 1 or 2, Macro/micro, etc... dont mean a thing. For that matter a 4 in AP English Lang and AP Lit is ignored.
They only consider a 5 in AP US history, AP English Lang, Lit, 4 or 5 in World Language, 5 in Physics C, 4 o 5 in Calc BC.
https://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/table-of-acceleration-credit/
No, you’re wrong. You’re looking at whether the kid gets credit for the classes. Quoting Yale (which confirms what I said):
Admissions officers are familiar with various types of advanced coursework, including AP, IB, A-Levels, Dual Enrollment, and others, but have no preference for one advanced curriculum over another. We also understand that the availability of advanced coursework varies significantly from school to school. For matriculating students, top scores on AP or IB exams can, in some cases, be used for the purposes of course placement or acceleration (i.e. completing the requirements for an undergraduate degree in fewer than 8 semesters). Details of the Yale College policies on acceleration are available in the Yale College Programs of Study.
Link:
https://admissions.yale.edu/faq/applying-yale-college#faq_category_page-page-14
Colleges expect students to take the most rigorous coursework accessible at their school system. Yale knows that FCPS offers AP courses, and receives a ton of FCPS applicants having taken the most challenging AP exams scoring a 4 or 5. And then they may receive a few fcps applicants who avoided taking the challenging AP course offered to them and instead enrolled in a community college DE course for a GPA bump. Who do you think they would select?
I've pointed to exactly what Yale has said. You're making a guess. The school has said they equate DE and AP classes the exact same. But, you know better, right?
Top 10% of FCPS take the most rigorous APs. Once they have all their 4s and 5s accomplished, then go for post AP DE classes. Competitive universities receive applications from such top 10% from various school systems in addition to FCPS. And then there are wishful FCPS applicants trying their luck with one or two substitute DE courses for basic subjects and no worthwhile APs. Good luck to them competing with the top 10% from their own school system and others.
Folks, please listen up. We've found someone who knows more than the Yale admissions office. Take heed.
Okay bear with me a moment but what if your kid is not some kind of Doogie Howser and isn’t applying only to Ivies and Oxbridge and just wants to know if the AO will go “okay” or “seems sus” at a regular person school.
Anonymous
01/10/2024 13:38
Subject: Re:AP vs DE?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Eh, disagree with the prior posters. Yale considers these all equal: AP, de and IB
They do not consider them equal. Student effort matters and is recognized accordingly.
The more competitive the university the more stringent their criteria. At yale, even an AP score of 5 in AP Chemistry, AP CS A, Physics 1 or 2, Macro/micro, etc... dont mean a thing. For that matter a 4 in AP English Lang and AP Lit is ignored.
They only consider a 5 in AP US history, AP English Lang, Lit, 4 or 5 in World Language, 5 in Physics C, 4 o 5 in Calc BC.
https://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/table-of-acceleration-credit/
OP is not asking about course credit, they are asking about the perception of rigor.
Perception of rigor will be with AP.
Fair or not, there's a perception that a community college environment is not going to be as rigorous as a high school AP environment. Plus AP is standardized so it's easier to compare.
DE works for particular situations, but it does not give an edge over AP generally. Plus, there's the time and the hassle of commuting. Unless the high school is really weak with the AP offerings, don't think it's worth it.
Anonymous
01/10/2024 13:28
Subject: AP vs DE?
We live elsewhere in Virginia. Our HS student is taking a few DE courses right now. No AP exam, but earns college credit. Our college student said she liked DE so much better, and wishes she had taken more classes DE (mostly did AP). DE works better for our current high schooler, who tends to be a very slow test taker, very exacting. Why put your kid under test stress when you don't have to? Not all kids thrive under AP test pressure, but are good students. College credit is college credit.