Anonymous
Post 01/07/2024 12:18     Subject: At what level should a fluent reader start in Lexia?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Is there a reason FCPS does not teach grammar in elementary? Is this a science-based decision? I ask as someone who never explicitly learned grammar but somehow learned to write at an advanced level. I'm not knocking grammar instruction but I wonder if it is really necessary if children are actually spending a lot of time reading and learning implicitly (which children are very adept at doing).



Not everyone learns grammar implicitly to a high enough degree, ime at a top law school.


Ok, but that might be because they didn't get enough input (reading). Do not tell me you think some people are "explicit learners" and some are "implicit learners". That would be as wrong-headed as "learning styles". The brain is wired for implicit learning, given good input.


One of the people I am thinking of definitely read far, far more than average.
Anonymous
Post 01/07/2024 12:08     Subject: At what level should a fluent reader start in Lexia?
Anonymous wrote:I strongly believe my son got a bad placement because of misunderstanding the questions or something. He is an excellent reader, as evidenced by my own observations plus standardized test scores, but Lexia placed him barely at grade level. I wish I had made a fuss about it, honestly. It made school miserable for him.

Near the end of fifth grade I did tell the teacher I didn’t want him to do Lexia and insisted he read hardcover books instead during that time. This was because I pulled him out of school for a year and a half and when he resumed lexia, he just started up at the beginning of fifth grade where he left off off in third grade instead of getting a new placement test. I hated to be a high-maintenance parent but the teacher and principal didn’t have a problem with it.

Lexia is great for a lot of kids but I don’t think it’s good for advanced readers. Yes there will be things they learn that they don’t already know, like some Greek affixes, but for my son that happened about one in every twenty lessons.


I'm sorry--and terrified--to hear that. Sounds excruciating. I hope the teacher was open to your child reading books instead, although it's shocking they didn't do another placement test upon your child's return to school. But if the earlier teacher poster is right, it should be possible to advance quickly if one focuses and avoids silly errors. The case of the child who started at 9 in grade 2 and advanced to 18 within a year gives one hope.
Anonymous
Post 01/07/2024 12:03     Subject: At what level should a fluent reader start in Lexia?
Also, re: incorrect plurals, would love to hear some examples of errors she made later even when she was already a voracious reader. I'd bet that these were odd cases in some way! --child dev researcher
Anonymous
Post 01/07/2024 11:59     Subject: At what level should a fluent reader start in Lexia?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Is there a reason FCPS does not teach grammar in elementary? Is this a science-based decision? I ask as someone who never explicitly learned grammar but somehow learned to write at an advanced level. I'm not knocking grammar instruction but I wonder if it is really necessary if children are actually spending a lot of time reading and learning implicitly (which children are very adept at doing).




Not everyone learns grammar implicitly to a high enough degree, ime at a top law school.


Ok, but that might be because they didn't get enough input (reading). Do not tell me you think some people are "explicit learners" and some are "implicit learners". That would be as wrong-headed as "learning styles". The brain is wired for implicit learning, given good input.


NP. I think it’s like reading instruction. Some kids learn how to read with very little instruction, and others need explicit instruction. I don’t think we don’t know why, but unlike learning styles, it’s a documented phenomenon.

I actually did a test with one of my kids. My mom was this strict prescriptive grammarian and I hated how she always corrected my grammar. I decided never to correct my daughter’s grammar to see if she would just pick up good speech. Verbally, she is brilliant (she actually scored a 142 on the verbal section of an IQ test, I think WISC?). She is a voracious reader and her reading comprehension scores are always in the 99th percentile. And she didn’t pick up on many grammar rules! It was fascinating. She always said “me and my friend” and used incorrect plurals and such, well into late elementary years. This is a sample size of one but not every child will pick up on grammar rules, even with plentiful inputs.


That's an interesting experiment, but there's an alternative explanation. Your daughter learned grammar well (as evidenced by her comprehension and vocab, both of which are aided by strong understanding of grammar). She could say things like "me and my friend" because she inferred this is a case that defies rules, as it is quite common speech (and largely acceptable, at least in colloquial speech).

What you really mean is your daughter didn't implicitly learn (or learn to prefer) the more formal ways of speaking and writing that are contrasted by colloquial speech and writing. Children start to implicitly learn grammar before the age of two and implicit learning informs a lot of learning in reading, writing, and spelling, much more than many realize.
Anonymous
Post 01/07/2024 10:05     Subject: At what level should a fluent reader start in Lexia?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Is there a reason FCPS does not teach grammar in elementary? Is this a science-based decision? I ask as someone who never explicitly learned grammar but somehow learned to write at an advanced level. I'm not knocking grammar instruction but I wonder if it is really necessary if children are actually spending a lot of time reading and learning implicitly (which children are very adept at doing).




Not everyone learns grammar implicitly to a high enough degree, ime at a top law school.


Ok, but that might be because they didn't get enough input (reading). Do not tell me you think some people are "explicit learners" and some are "implicit learners". That would be as wrong-headed as "learning styles". The brain is wired for implicit learning, given good input.


NP. I think it’s like reading instruction. Some kids learn how to read with very little instruction, and others need explicit instruction. I don’t think we don’t know why, but unlike learning styles, it’s a documented phenomenon.

I actually did a test with one of my kids. My mom was this strict prescriptive grammarian and I hated how she always corrected my grammar. I decided never to correct my daughter’s grammar to see if she would just pick up good speech. Verbally, she is brilliant (she actually scored a 142 on the verbal section of an IQ test, I think WISC?). She is a voracious reader and her reading comprehension scores are always in the 99th percentile. And she didn’t pick up on many grammar rules! It was fascinating. She always said “me and my friend” and used incorrect plurals and such, well into late elementary years. This is a sample size of one but not every child will pick up on grammar rules, even with plentiful inputs.
Anonymous
Post 01/07/2024 09:58     Subject: At what level should a fluent reader start in Lexia?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If it's that easy, they should be able to get through it pretty quickly, based on my child who had to start at the beginning too.


I can imagine this would be true for most kids, but not likely for all. Kids with ADHD may lose focus more quickly working, and answer incorrectly, on problems that are not challenging. Again, probably not most kids, but likely an issue for some students.


This was my kid for sure. He did some at home and it was painful. The narrators talk incredibly slowly, there is a lot of time between each question, and most of it is just absurdly easy. DS started trying to code a program that would do it for him automatically and I didn’t blame him one bit. (It didn’t work, by the way, apparently the code is highly obfuscated)
Anonymous
Post 01/07/2024 09:53     Subject: At what level should a fluent reader start in Lexia?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Is there a reason FCPS does not teach grammar in elementary? Is this a science-based decision? I ask as someone who never explicitly learned grammar but somehow learned to write at an advanced level. I'm not knocking grammar instruction but I wonder if it is really necessary if children are actually spending a lot of time reading and learning implicitly (which children are very adept at doing).


Not everyone learns grammar implicitly to a high enough degree, ime at a top law school.


Ok, but that might be because they didn't get enough input (reading). Do not tell me you think some people are "explicit learners" and some are "implicit learners". That would be as wrong-headed as "learning styles". The brain is wired for implicit learning, given good input.
Anonymous
Post 01/07/2024 09:43     Subject: At what level should a fluent reader start in Lexia?
Anonymous wrote:Is there a reason FCPS does not teach grammar in elementary? Is this a science-based decision? I ask as someone who never explicitly learned grammar but somehow learned to write at an advanced level. I'm not knocking grammar instruction but I wonder if it is really necessary if children are actually spending a lot of time reading and learning implicitly (which children are very adept at doing).


It seems like your question is contradictory. should your first sentence say “is there a reason why FCPS teachers grammar?” I’m asking because I’m not in FCPS (although we use Lexia) so I just want to clarify.

But for what it’s worth, I used to think that grammar instruction beyond parts of speech and other simple things wasn’t necessary. Then I studied up on writing instruction in anticipation of homeschooling my son, and I learned that it can be extremely valuable. One resource i highly recommend, even for parents who aren’t homeschooling, is The Writing Revolution. It contains lessons on specific grammar principles that can really bolster writing ability once mastered. One example is appositives, which help with concision and sentence variety. A lot of people do just pick it up but sprinkling in grammar lessons here and there and giving kids practice using them will improve their writing, and as we all know that is very much a weak spot for Americans right now.
Anonymous
Post 01/07/2024 09:37     Subject: At what level should a fluent reader start in Lexia?
I strongly believe my son got a bad placement because of misunderstanding the questions or something. He is an excellent reader, as evidenced by my own observations plus standardized test scores, but Lexia placed him barely at grade level. I wish I had made a fuss about it, honestly. It made school miserable for him.

Near the end of fifth grade I did tell the teacher I didn’t want him to do Lexia and insisted he read hardcover books instead during that time. This was because I pulled him out of school for a year and a half and when he resumed lexia, he just started up at the beginning of fifth grade where he left off off in third grade instead of getting a new placement test. I hated to be a high-maintenance parent but the teacher and principal didn’t have a problem with it.

Lexia is great for a lot of kids but I don’t think it’s good for advanced readers. Yes there will be things they learn that they don’t already know, like some Greek affixes, but for my son that happened about one in every twenty lessons.
Anonymous
Post 01/07/2024 09:26     Subject: At what level should a fluent reader start in Lexia?
Anonymous wrote:Is there a reason FCPS does not teach grammar in elementary? Is this a science-based decision? I ask as someone who never explicitly learned grammar but somehow learned to write at an advanced level. I'm not knocking grammar instruction but I wonder if it is really necessary if children are actually spending a lot of time reading and learning implicitly (which children are very adept at doing).


Not everyone learns grammar implicitly to a high enough degree, ime at a top law school.
Anonymous
Post 01/07/2024 08:56     Subject: At what level should a fluent reader start in Lexia?
Anonymous wrote:Is there supposed to be a set amount of time done each week? My 2nd grader is making slow progress at both Lexia and ST Math and I realized it's because they barely log in. For example, DC reported they didn't do any Lexia this week. Some weeks it's the opposite with no ST Math.

Also- how do you find out what level your kid is in ST Math?
.

Lexia is supposed to be 60 minutes.
Anonymous
Post 01/07/2024 08:54     Subject: At what level should a fluent reader start in Lexia?
Is there a reason FCPS does not teach grammar in elementary? Is this a science-based decision? I ask as someone who never explicitly learned grammar but somehow learned to write at an advanced level. I'm not knocking grammar instruction but I wonder if it is really necessary if children are actually spending a lot of time reading and learning implicitly (which children are very adept at doing).
Anonymous
Post 01/06/2024 22:39     Subject: At what level should a fluent reader start in Lexia?
Is there supposed to be a set amount of time done each week? My 2nd grader is making slow progress at both Lexia and ST Math and I realized it's because they barely log in. For example, DC reported they didn't do any Lexia this week. Some weeks it's the opposite with no ST Math.

Also- how do you find out what level your kid is in ST Math?
Anonymous
Post 01/06/2024 22:09     Subject: At what level should a fluent reader start in Lexia?
Anonymous wrote:If it's that easy, they should be able to get through it pretty quickly, based on my child who had to start at the beginning too.


I can imagine this would be true for most kids, but not likely for all. Kids with ADHD may lose focus more quickly working, and answer incorrectly, on problems that are not challenging. Again, probably not most kids, but likely an issue for some students.
Anonymous
Post 01/06/2024 18:22     Subject: At what level should a fluent reader start in Lexia?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Since FCPS doesn’t teach grammar, at least Lexia introduced some in elementary school. It introduced contractions and a few parts of speech. Not great, but better than getting nothing.


I am an English teacher. My entire department, at all grade levels, teaches grammar.
No grammar is taught at our elementary school at all. Vocabulary, yes, but no grammar. Even at 6th grade, the students do not know what a subject and a predicate are.