Anonymous
Post 01/04/2024 21:54     Subject: What are “top notch ECs”?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:National finalist of major STEM competitions (think USAMO, USAPHO, USABO, etc)
ISEF, STS finalist
First author pub in peer-reviewed journals
National finalist of major art/writing competitions
Accepted to prestigious summer programs (RSI, SSP, TASP, etc)


+1


USAMO qualification is not that great! Over 500 qualify each year, at least 150-200 seniors. Need to qualify for Math Olympiad Summer Program (MOP) to really distinguish yourself and be on the same level as the STS finalist or RSI participant.

First, there are around 200 USAMO qualifiers , not 500. And the student pool for the usamo track is much larger than other Olympiad competitions. So it’s hard.
Second, the PP did say national finalist of ISAMO, which is MOP.


Technically, the US IMO (and respective Olympiad) team are finalists. But there can only be 6! And there were about 250 USAMO qualifiers (and another 250 from JMO).
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2024 20:43     Subject: What are “top notch ECs”?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Music and art in national recognition.


NP. Stop with the "national recognition" crap.

National recognition/competitions etc. in any field, music, art, sports, etc. is rare.

Any college worth attending is going to know that, too.

OP, your kid needs to do ECs he or she wants to do, activities which engage your kid enough that they're taking a real interest and showing commitment with their time and effort. And then, crucially, your kid needs to be able to write essays where they articulately talk about why those ECs are meaningful personally; what those ECs have taught them about themselves and other people; how those ECs have prepared them for college and/or helped determine their chosen major/career; how those ECs have made your kid into a person who would be a contributing member of that college's student body.

Sure, it's great to have a resume with national awards etc. Some colleges will indeed see those and toss an application onto the pile for further consideration, or a firm "yes." But it is utterly foolish to push any kid (who doesn't want to do it on their own) to compete like crazy in order to maybe win awards for the sake of college apps. Instead, students should do things that matter to them as people and should be able to talk and write about how those activities affect them.

Please do not stress a kid about "You need to WIN STUFF to ensure admission to college X." If that's the feeling, then maybe college X isn't really the right place for that particular kid.


DP. Which is why they were indicated as "top notch." Of course they're rare. That's the point.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2024 20:20     Subject: What are “top notch ECs”?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Caring about something — actually, truly caring, and letting that sense of care lead. It’s hard to define exactly, bc the specific path depends on the alchemy between the kid, that thing they care about, and the need/opportunity/moment.

But it begins with caring, and AOs know it when they see it.


Eh. Caring about something is not going to get you there. Would it help if the something was video games, socializing, or beauty pageants? Deep interest or desire in an activity is not how it begins. I know many kids who have continued a long term activity solely for college admissions purposes: scouts, crew, etc. you think those kids look less committed to the same activity than peers who do it next to them but love it? They don’t.

Kid one: hates scouting, wanted to drop it 3 years ago but parent said no, sticks with it and puts it on her college app looks just as committed as

Kid 2: loves scouting, never considered stopping, puts it on her college app, looking just as committed as kid 2.




College counsellor at our high school says there really is pretty big difference between the kids who stick with an activity. They don’t like “for college“ and the kids who cared deeply and lean in because they love it. The two activities will obviously look the same as a line item in the common app, butpersonal statements and supplemental essays are where kids can really colour in between the lines and let someone know who they are, what they care about, and why.


DP. The college counselor is wrong. There are plenty of passionate kids who cannot articulate their emotions in a personal essay. There are plenty of bored kids who have their essays massaged into articulate and passionate writing by someone else.



SO TRUE
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2024 20:13     Subject: What are “top notch ECs”?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Music and art in national recognition.


NP. Stop with the "national recognition" crap.

National recognition/competitions etc. in any field, music, art, sports, etc. is rare.

Any college worth attending is going to know that, too.

+1
My kid got into a top 10 school with excellent ordinary activities. Newspaper, debate, plays an instrument (no national awards), a lot of tutoring. Dedicated to all. Nothing over the top.
OP, your kid needs to do ECs he or she wants to do, activities which engage your kid enough that they're taking a real interest and showing commitment with their time and effort. And then, crucially, your kid needs to be able to write essays where they articulately talk about why those ECs are meaningful personally; what those ECs have taught them about themselves and other people; how those ECs have prepared them for college and/or helped determine their chosen major/career; how those ECs have made your kid into a person who would be a contributing member of that college's student body.

Sure, it's great to have a resume with national awards etc. Some colleges will indeed see those and toss an application onto the pile for further consideration, or a firm "yes." But it is utterly foolish to push any kid (who doesn't want to do it on their own) to compete like crazy in order to maybe win awards for the sake of college apps. Instead, students should do things that matter to them as people and should be able to talk and write about how those activities affect them.

Please do not stress a kid about "You need to WIN STUFF to ensure admission to college X." If that's the feeling, then maybe college X isn't really the right place for that particular kid.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2024 14:25     Subject: What are “top notch ECs”?
My kid got into a T25 school, so not tippy top for many here, but still pretty good. They did not participate in any academic competitions due to lack of interest and time commitments to their sport. They decided to coach a local rec team instead. This is an EC that is doable for kids who may have that strong academic drive. All they have to do is put in the work. I think AOs can see the kid has leadership skills, is volunteering, has organization skills, is comfortable with public speaking, and if they do it for a few seasons, a big commitment to their community. It also shows the student has a passion, and is sharing their “gifts” with the community.

Just my two cents. I have zero experience with those super competitive awards.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2024 14:13     Subject: What are “top notch ECs”?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:National finalist of major STEM competitions (think USAMO, USAPHO, USABO, etc)
ISEF, STS finalist
First author pub in peer-reviewed journals
National finalist of major art/writing competitions
Accepted to prestigious summer programs (RSI, SSP, TASP, etc)


+1


USAMO qualification is not that great! Over 500 qualify each year, at least 150-200 seniors. Need to qualify for Math Olympiad Summer Program (MOP) to really distinguish yourself and be on the same level as the STS finalist or RSI participant.

First, there are around 200 USAMO qualifiers , not 500. And the student pool for the usamo track is much larger than other Olympiad competitions. So it’s hard.
Second, the PP did say national finalist of ISAMO, which is MOP.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2024 14:12     Subject: What are “top notch ECs”?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Music and art in national recognition.


NP. Stop with the "national recognition" crap.

National recognition/competitions etc. in any field, music, art, sports, etc. is rare.

Any college worth attending is going to know that, too.

OP, your kid needs to do ECs he or she wants to do, activities which engage your kid enough that they're taking a real interest and showing commitment with their time and effort. And then, crucially, your kid needs to be able to write essays where they articulately talk about why those ECs are meaningful personally; what those ECs have taught them about themselves and other people; how those ECs have prepared them for college and/or helped determine their chosen major/career; how those ECs have made your kid into a person who would be a contributing member of that college's student body.

Sure, it's great to have a resume with national awards etc. Some colleges will indeed see those and toss an application onto the pile for further consideration, or a firm "yes." But it is utterly foolish to push any kid (who doesn't want to do it on their own) to compete like crazy in order to maybe win awards for the sake of college apps. Instead, students should do things that matter to them as people and should be able to talk and write about how those activities affect them.

Please do not stress a kid about "You need to WIN STUFF to ensure admission to college X." If that's the feeling, then maybe college X isn't really the right place for that particular kid.

Never pushed my kid to anything and their ECs definitely spoke to a CS interest that they developed on their own and is a useful industry expertise. I can tell you that this approach did not work for admissions at "select" colleges. My observation is that they are looking for something truly unique and there are some kids that end up there on their own, some whose parents push for it, and those that are simply lying.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2024 14:03     Subject: What are “top notch ECs”?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:National finalist of major STEM competitions (think USAMO, USAPHO, USABO, etc)
ISEF, STS finalist
First author pub in peer-reviewed journals
National finalist of major art/writing competitions
Accepted to prestigious summer programs (RSI, SSP, TASP, etc)


+1


USAMO qualification is not that great! Over 500 qualify each year, at least 150-200 seniors. Need to qualify for Math Olympiad Summer Program (MOP) to really distinguish yourself and be on the same level as the STS finalist or RSI participant.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2024 13:59     Subject: What are “top notch ECs”?
Anonymous wrote:Music and art in national recognition.


NP. Stop with the "national recognition" crap.

National recognition/competitions etc. in any field, music, art, sports, etc. is rare.

Any college worth attending is going to know that, too.

OP, your kid needs to do ECs he or she wants to do, activities which engage your kid enough that they're taking a real interest and showing commitment with their time and effort. And then, crucially, your kid needs to be able to write essays where they articulately talk about why those ECs are meaningful personally; what those ECs have taught them about themselves and other people; how those ECs have prepared them for college and/or helped determine their chosen major/career; how those ECs have made your kid into a person who would be a contributing member of that college's student body.

Sure, it's great to have a resume with national awards etc. Some colleges will indeed see those and toss an application onto the pile for further consideration, or a firm "yes." But it is utterly foolish to push any kid (who doesn't want to do it on their own) to compete like crazy in order to maybe win awards for the sake of college apps. Instead, students should do things that matter to them as people and should be able to talk and write about how those activities affect them.

Please do not stress a kid about "You need to WIN STUFF to ensure admission to college X." If that's the feeling, then maybe college X isn't really the right place for that particular kid.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2024 13:34     Subject: Re:What are “top notch ECs”?
I think internships at large companies or working an unusually impressive job can also help kids stand out. DC is working for the White House currently because of their niche interest in an area where their demographic is underrepresented and I think that makes them unique.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2024 12:33     Subject: What are “top notch ECs”?
Anonymous wrote:National finalist of major STEM competitions (think USAMO, USAPHO, USABO, etc)
ISEF, STS finalist
First author pub in peer-reviewed journals
National finalist of major art/writing competitions
Accepted to prestigious summer programs (RSI, SSP, TASP, etc)


This is good. For arts, I'd say Young Arts, Feder, US Marine Band, NYO/NYO2 etc, major film/theatre credits, major film festival inclusion or teen win maybe. Scholastic gold perhaps
I'd also include MITES for summer programs,
I'd also add big scholarships -- CocaCola, Coolidge, Cameron, etc.

My kids had excellent credits that I would put it just slightly below those top tier known entities: nat'l and int'l wins/finalists at lesser known or not well-known competitions. Regional/state at well known, some less competitive (like State Orch). Pro work in the arts. Awards across arts and STEM.

I think when you step down from the top tier of honors, it is about telling your story. And, if you are an arts kid, the portfolios become as important (or moreso) as the awards. They are like 2 sides of the coin. AOs see the awards and professors see the portfolios and just send notes to the AOs.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2024 11:48     Subject: What are “top notch ECs”?
Anonymous wrote:I see reference in this forum to top notch ECs/excellent ECs/etc. Obviously subjective, but what are considered top ECs, outside of athletics for which the kid is recruited? Thanks.


I read about some services where you can buy a named author on some research papers.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2024 10:50     Subject: What are “top notch ECs”?
NP. I think essays currently are more important than activities. What might seem to be ordinary activities can yield plenty in essays for students who can be sufficiently self-reflective.

I also agree with the PP about essay authenticity being a problem and that excellent students are missed in the current process for not having essays on the mark, which is subjective for the individual AO.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2024 10:37     Subject: What are “top notch ECs”?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:National finalist of major STEM competitions (think USAMO, USAPHO, USABO, etc)
ISEF, STS finalist
First author pub in peer-reviewed journals
National finalist of major art/writing competitions
Accepted to prestigious summer programs (RSI, SSP, TASP, etc)


What are those?

Google the names
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2024 10:26     Subject: What are “top notch ECs”?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Caring about something — actually, truly caring, and letting that sense of care lead. It’s hard to define exactly, bc the specific path depends on the alchemy between the kid, that thing they care about, and the need/opportunity/moment.

But it begins with caring, and AOs know it when they see it.


Eh. Caring about something is not going to get you there. Would it help if the something was video games, socializing, or beauty pageants? Deep interest or desire in an activity is not how it begins. I know many kids who have continued a long term activity solely for college admissions purposes: scouts, crew, etc. you think those kids look less committed to the same activity than peers who do it next to them but love it? They don’t.

Kid one: hates scouting, wanted to drop it 3 years ago but parent said no, sticks with it and puts it on her college app looks just as committed as

Kid 2: loves scouting, never considered stopping, puts it on her college app, looking just as committed as kid 2.




College counsellor at our high school says there really is pretty big difference between the kids who stick with an activity. They don’t like “for college“ and the kids who cared deeply and lean in because they love it. The two activities will obviously look the same as a line item in the common app, butpersonal statements and supplemental essays are where kids can really colour in between the lines and let someone know who they are, what they care about, and why.


DP. The college counselor is wrong. There are plenty of passionate kids who cannot articulate their emotions in a personal essay. There are plenty of bored kids who have their essays massaged into articulate and passionate writing by someone else.


IMO, they really should get rid of the essay. Too many wealthy parents buy consultants to either write the essay or edit it.

Of course, you can hire a tutor for SAT and school, but ultimately, the student has to put in the work. Not so for the essay.