Anonymous wrote:My theory is when bookstores close, neighborhoods die. Borders was the first nail in the coffin.

Bethesda was dumb to lose B&N. I no longer go there.

+1

I loved the Barnes and Noble in Bethesda. I would go to browse or read in the coffee shop and end up eating lunch somewhere or going to see a movie across the street. I never go to Bethesda anymore since it closed.

I think multiple things happened — driven at least partially by greedy real estate interests.

— The decision about 25 years ago to “Rodeo Drive” the shops south of Saks was a bad one. It misjudged the culture of the people who live nearby— who will spend money on investment dressing, but don’t really care about expensive impractical shoes featured in Vogue. So most of those newer stores were intended to lure in shoppers from other neighborhoods, which wasn’t realistic, and became fatal with COVID and the growth of internet shopping, along with the greater concentration of stores at Tysons.

— Several longtime anchor stores closed due to issues that had little to do with the area’s ability to sustain them. All Lord and Taylor stores closed, and the owner shut Saks Jandel because he had little interest in the family business. Brooks Brothers was sold, and will probably close as the area gets redeveloped. By the time Neiman Marcus closed, there wasn’t much left in the mall.

— I agree with the PP who pointed out the impact that the Borders closing had on the rest of the neighborhood. I used to stop at Borders several times a month, usually spending money. I’d then stop at Nordstrom Rack, and often pick up a meal (at restaurants that are no longer there). The closing of Borders (nationwide) meant fewer stops and less spending on my part. When Lord and Taylor’s closed, it meant that basics that I needed were no longer available in the neighborhood. When the movie theaters closed, the neighborhood lost an attraction that would pull in people from outside the neighborhood, who would then stop at restaurants and stores.

— The neighborhood still has lots of people willing to shop and to spend money — on things that are genuinely useful, appealing, convenient, and/or delicious. While the Height Food Hall is a wonderful step in a good direction, they’ve done a horrible job of making sure that those of us who live within walking distance know that it’s actually finally open. I know, because I was followed one particular restaurant. I’ve seen nothing in my building or in the Friendship Heights newsletter, and nothing that would catch my attention when I shop multiple times a week at the Whole Foods store — immediately below the food hall.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unlike Bethesda Row, it's not a fun place to walk/stroll. You've got Wisconsin and Western Avenue traffic cutting off each side of the street. Ten years ago when they had J Crew, H&M and those sorts of retailers there, they never got a critical mass of stores where people would want to go to. Finally, it's ugly as sin. The architecture is hideous and uninviting.

This. If they could somehow route the traffic in a circle aroundthat intersection, and create an enclosed space, it would be more inviting. Or create an architecturally interesting bridge/pavilion like the Maggie Daley park in Chicago. Something. But as it is I fear for my life every time I have to cross there. And yes it is just so ugly.

You realize you can use the metro accesses to "cross" the streets, right? I mean, that is what most people do.

No, most people aren't going down the metro escalator/elevator to cross the street. What a pain in the.......

Don't forget the shooting outside Clyde's restaurant last year:
https://wtop.com/maryland/2023/12/dc-man-sentenced-to-35-years-in-prison-for-shooting-outside-chevy-chase-restaurant/

along with numerous mass retail thefts.

Regarding old people, let's not forget the vehement opposition to... building a playground, that residents claimed would lower property values, increase alcohol use, and sexual activity (I'm not making this up):
https://wtop.com/news/2014/03/friendship-heights-council-approves-more-modest-playground-design/

What's wrong? You do not want to hang out on the astro turf lawn in parking lot of "The Collection"?

You all aren't getting it. The property owners have for the most part, emptied their properties for massive redevelopment.

-Mazza Gallery is already underway.
-The Maggiano's building is next.
-Lord and Taylor and the WMAT bus garage are about two years away
-The building at 44th and Jennifer may even be in play as well

Add to it, the former Channel 5 building, the corner of Harrison and Wisc (the old bank) and even possibly the Rodman's site are all being discussed.

So yes, it is bleak now, but it is partially be design so the whole area can be remade in short order.

Friendship Heights needs more urban vibrancy and density. Remove the height limit on the DC side.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My theory is when bookstores close, neighborhoods die. Borders was the first nail in the coffin.

Bethesda was dumb to lose B&N. I no longer go there.

So true. When Bethesda lost B&N, it stopped being a destination, a neighborhood to linger in and grab a coffee or lunch. Instead, it became nothing more than yet another place to do a couple of errands.

Friendship is much worse. The Maryland side is OK - Hunter's Hound has been a pretty good addition. Saks is Saks. Most of the commercial space is occupied.

But the DC side is bleak. The entire space from Western all the way through Tenley has changed dramatically over the past five or six years. You need to keep your head on a swivel. It doesn't feel safe. The Verizon Store was hit a little while ago - armed robbery including of customers. So much commercial space is empty. It feels very derelict. The new food hall and the eventual completion of the redevelopment of Mazza should hopefully change things. But in the meantime, Friendship has similar issues to the rest of DC - out of control crime, particularly by youth, is the main one. Combine that with WFH, and people don't see much of a reason to cross the line into DC. It's quite stark when you take Wisconsin and cross Western. There's absolutely no reason to spend any time in the area between the DC/MD line and say the Cathedral. It gets better after that once you get to Glover.

Bethesda was not overbuilt and you could get parking and a meal for a reasonable price. Now they just have overpriced places and parking is a nightmare. Same with Pike and Rose and some of those other places.

It's all under construction. They were phasing out the businesses for years so they could redo it all. When it's done, it will be like old times.

I do love that Bloomingdale’s. Other than that one store, I never shop in FH anymore

Also georgetown coming back made for a much better urban alternative. they decided to give up on cars - since the suburbs would always win that battle - and widen the sidewalks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Online shopping killed it. Should bring in kids play places, water fountains, cafes, gyms like rock climbing, library or bookstore, senior center or other community center, farmers market, etc to regrow traffic. Not very walkable though. Need to make parking more convenient.

How much more convenient can the parking be?!?!

Also you can either have convenient [free] parking, or you can have a walkable area, but there's no such thing as a walkable area with convenient [free] parking.

Exactly. FH is neither. Parking is not terrible but can be inconvenient. Not fun to walk there either for all the reasons PPs pointed out.

For as long as I've lived in DC no one "goes" to that area for anything. You live there to get away from DC crime, and because you can afford to.

So what’s stopping the people who do live there from being out and about and enjoying live??

Summer afternoons in the late ‘80s drinking margaritas on the second-level patio at Tila’s. Bliss.

Anonymous wrote:My theory is when bookstores close, neighborhoods die. Borders was the first nail in the coffin.

Bethesda was dumb to lose B&N. I no longer go there.

So true. When Bethesda lost B&N, it stopped being a destination, a neighborhood to linger in and grab a coffee or lunch. Instead, it became nothing more than yet another place to do a couple of errands.

Friendship is much worse. The Maryland side is OK - Hunter's Hound has been a pretty good addition. Saks is Saks. Most of the commercial space is occupied.

But the DC side is bleak. The entire space from Western all the way through Tenley has changed dramatically over the past five or six years. You need to keep your head on a swivel. It doesn't feel safe. The Verizon Store was hit a little while ago - armed robbery including of customers. So much commercial space is empty. It feels very derelict. The new food hall and the eventual completion of the redevelopment of Mazza should hopefully change things. But in the meantime, Friendship has similar issues to the rest of DC - out of control crime, particularly by youth, is the main one. Combine that with WFH, and people don't see much of a reason to cross the line into DC. It's quite stark when you take Wisconsin and cross Western. There's absolutely no reason to spend any time in the area between the DC/MD line and say the Cathedral. It gets better after that once you get to Glover.

I’ve lived in DC for 9 years, the only time I had to go to FH was for a root canal because I couldn’t get a sooner appointment elsewhere. Had never seen so many old people per square feet.