"Messianic Judaism is often presented as an ethnic church for Jews–somewhat like a Korean or Chinese church, but with outreach specific to Jews. However, most experts estimate that in most Messianic Jewish congregations only about half the members were born Jews."
More about Messianic "Judaism" here for anyone who wants to learn more: [url]https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/messianic-judaism/[/url]

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is that Messianic Jews are culturally Jewish but believe that Jesus is the Messiah- the fulfillment of Jewish scripture. In essence they’re like the early disciples of Jesus who were Jewish and accepted Jesus, also Jewish, as the Messiah. Obviously 2000 years later, much has changed in organized religion & those early Jews who accepted Jesus as the Jewish Messiah became known as Christians, along with the many gentiles who became Christians. But in the early church there was a faction who thought gentiles needed to become Jewish first before they could become Christians, since Jesus was first sent to the Jews, God’s Chosen People. The faction that believed gentiles could become Christians without first becoming Jews won out. It’s kind of a fascinating history.

They are not like the early disciples of Jesus who were Jewish and accepted Jesus -- you have to elide far too much history and change in both religions since then to make that comparison work. They're Christians who (often) were born Jewish and want to pretend they're still Jewish despite following Christian theology.

Anonymous wrote:Oh really? I don’t know anything about Messianic Jews. If they were an early sect of Jews who followed Jesus and rejected the Christian label, that would kind of make sense to me. If they’re evangelical Christians with no Jewish heritage that want to adopt Jewish customs because “Jesus was Jewish,” or as a farce to convert Jews, yeah thats a different story.

You actually believe there is an “early sect of Jews who followed Jesus and rejected the Christian label” that persists today? Seriously?

Jews for Jesus are a (small) group of Jews that converted to evangelical Christianity. They are sponsored by other evangelicals in their mission to convert Jews to Christianity.

Oh really? I don’t know anything about Messianic Jews. If they were an early sect of Jews who followed Jesus and rejected the Christian label, that would kind of make sense to me. If they’re evangelical Christians with no Jewish heritage that want to adopt Jewish customs because “Jesus was Jewish,” or as a farce to convert Jews, yeah thats a different story.

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is that Messianic Jews are culturally Jewish but believe that Jesus is the Messiah- the fulfillment of Jewish scripture. In essence they’re like the early disciples of Jesus who were Jewish and accepted Jesus, also Jewish, as the Messiah. Obviously 2000 years later, much has changed in organized religion & those early Jews who accepted Jesus as the Jewish Messiah became known as Christians, along with the many gentiles who became Christians. But in the early church there was a faction who thought gentiles needed to become Jewish first before they could become Christians, since Jesus was first sent to the Jews, God’s Chosen People. The faction that believed gentiles could become Christians without first becoming Jews won out. It’s kind of a fascinating history.

Jews for Jesus is just an evangelical Christian denomination that converts Jews to Christianity. It’s not really any type of Judaism.

My understanding is that Messianic Jews are culturally Jewish but believe that Jesus is the Messiah- the fulfillment of Jewish scripture. In essence they’re like the early disciples of Jesus who were Jewish and accepted Jesus, also Jewish, as the Messiah. Obviously 2000 years later, much has changed in organized religion & those early Jews who accepted Jesus as the Jewish Messiah became known as Christians, along with the many gentiles who became Christians. But in the early church there was a faction who thought gentiles needed to become Jewish first before they could become Christians, since Jesus was first sent to the Jews, God’s Chosen People. The faction that believed gentiles could become Christians without first becoming Jews won out. It’s kind of a fascinating history.

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Anonymous wrote:A woman in my daughter's Girl Scout leadership has mentioned that she's a Messianic Jew but that her family hasn't been able to find a local congregation because anyone who starts one up gets sued by Jewish groups. Just wondering if this is true. What would the basis for the lawsuit be?

It's not true but the people who are attracted to Jews for Jesus (as they used to be called) have a screw loose. It's not hard to imagine they may believe in antisemitic conspiracy theories, too.

Found the dumber post.

All religions are a little crazy, but we understand that your ethnic culture has an effect on your mindset.

But mixing two religions (with belief, not merely ethnically blending in a marriage/family) is double crazy.

This comment shows a stunning lack of cultural literacy. With the possible exception of Luke all of the attributed authors of the New Testament are Jewish. And the four most important figures in the New Testament were Jewish: Jesus, Mary, Peter (first Pope) and Paul (the most important convert).

For better or worse, Christianity is Jewish in its origin DNA and it was founded, started and advanced by Jews (even if that what not exactly the intent). It can’t possibly be shocking to either side that some straddle the middle.

To be clear, I’m not getting into the substance of the matter. But calling someone who sits in the middle here “crazy” or “screws loose” is hugely disrespectful on a matter of faith.

This commn is ridiculous or bizarre or whatever term you prefer.

Christianity has spent 2000 years distinguishing itself from Judaism— there are millions of Jews who have died during those 2000 years for not being Christian.

As far as I am concerned, anyone can start their own religion but what’s offensive is claiming that they are Jews, and in fact more Jewish than Jews. Reminds me of those people who say “I didn’t like Indian food until I left out all the spices” .

You’re mixing issues and showing a stunning lack of cultural literacy. Hint: Christianity can ONLY be understood with a full understanding of the Old Testament. Your mind will be blown when you realize which two religions heavily study what Christians call the Old Testament.

Christians absolutely have a shameful legacy of persecuting the Jewish people and it is something they need to deal with. But literally every Christian building, university, park, etc… named St. Mary’s or St. Elizabeth’s are respectively named after two peasant Jewish women. That is but a very small example of the issue.

Again, I’m not getting at the substance of the matter, but to respond that being a Messianic Jew is incoherent (or crazy) (and I am not a MJ) is just a complete lack of understanding of what Christianity is and how it has shaped the world and the west in particular.

MJs are absolutely rare. It can be confusing. But it can be theologically coherent. And I absolutely understand why other Jewish groups distance themselves from MJs given what the central issue is. But it is not crazy to blend these two in particular.

Yes it is crazy. A Jew who believes Christ is the Messiah is … a Christian! That’s kinda what it says on the tin …

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Anonymous wrote:A woman in my daughter's Girl Scout leadership has mentioned that she's a Messianic Jew but that her family hasn't been able to find a local congregation because anyone who starts one up gets sued by Jewish groups. Just wondering if this is true. What would the basis for the lawsuit be?

It's not true but the people who are attracted to Jews for Jesus (as they used to be called) have a screw loose. It's not hard to imagine they may believe in antisemitic conspiracy theories, too.

Found the dumber post.

All religions are a little crazy, but we understand that your ethnic culture has an effect on your mindset.

But mixing two religions (with belief, not merely ethnically blending in a marriage/family) is double crazy.

This comment shows a stunning lack of cultural literacy. With the possible exception of Luke all of the attributed authors of the New Testament are Jewish. And the four most important figures in the New Testament were Jewish: Jesus, Mary, Peter (first Pope) and Paul (the most important convert).

For better or worse, Christianity is Jewish in its origin DNA and it was founded, started and advanced by Jews (even if that what not exactly the intent). It can’t possibly be shocking to either side that some straddle the middle.

To be clear, I’m not getting into the substance of the matter. But calling someone who sits in the middle here “crazy” or “screws loose” is hugely disrespectful on a matter of faith.

This commn is ridiculous or bizarre or whatever term you prefer.

Christianity has spent 2000 years distinguishing itself from Judaism— there are millions of Jews who have died during those 2000 years for not being Christian.

As far as I am concerned, anyone can start their own religion but what’s offensive is claiming that they are Jews, and in fact more Jewish than Jews. Reminds me of those people who say “I didn’t like Indian food until I left out all the spices” .

You’re mixing issues and showing a stunning lack of cultural literacy. Hint: Christianity can ONLY be understood with a full understanding of the Old Testament. Your mind will be blown when you realize which two religions heavily study what Christians call the Old Testament.

Christians absolutely have a shameful legacy of persecuting the Jewish people and it is something they need to deal with. But literally every Christian building, university, park, etc… named St. Mary’s or St. Elizabeth’s are respectively named after two peasant Jewish women. That is but a very small example of the issue.

Again, I’m not getting at the substance of the matter, but to respond that being a Messianic Jew is incoherent (or crazy) (and I am not a MJ) is just a complete lack of understanding of what Christianity is and how it has shaped the world and the west in particular.

MJs are absolutely rare. It can be confusing. But it can be theologically coherent. And I absolutely understand why other Jewish groups distance themselves from MJs given what the central issue is. But it is not crazy to blend these two in particular.

You are showing a stunning lack of reading comprehension. I said anyone can start whatever religion they want they just shouldn’t pretend it’s Judaism or they are more Jewish than Jews are.

Yes Christianity borrows texts from Judaism but supercessionism is still offensive and anti-semitic.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:A woman in my daughter's Girl Scout leadership has mentioned that she's a Messianic Jew but that her family hasn't been able to find a local congregation because anyone who starts one up gets sued by Jewish groups. Just wondering if this is true. What would the basis for the lawsuit be?

It's not true but the people who are attracted to Jews for Jesus (as they used to be called) have a screw loose. It's not hard to imagine they may believe in antisemitic conspiracy theories, too.

Found the dumber post.

All religions are a little crazy, but we understand that your ethnic culture has an effect on your mindset.

But mixing two religions (with belief, not merely ethnically blending in a marriage/family) is double crazy.

This comment shows a stunning lack of cultural literacy. With the possible exception of Luke all of the attributed authors of the New Testament are Jewish. And the four most important figures in the New Testament were Jewish: Jesus, Mary, Peter (first Pope) and Paul (the most important convert).

For better or worse, Christianity is Jewish in its origin DNA and it was founded, started and advanced by Jews (even if that what not exactly the intent). It can’t possibly be shocking to either side that some straddle the middle.

To be clear, I’m not getting into the substance of the matter. But calling someone who sits in the middle here “crazy” or “screws loose” is hugely disrespectful on a matter of faith.

This commn is ridiculous or bizarre or whatever term you prefer.

Christianity has spent 2000 years distinguishing itself from Judaism— there are millions of Jews who have died during those 2000 years for not being Christian.

As far as I am concerned, anyone can start their own religion but what’s offensive is claiming that they are Jews, and in fact more Jewish than Jews. Reminds me of those people who say “I didn’t like Indian food until I left out all the spices” .

You’re mixing issues and showing a stunning lack of cultural literacy. Hint: Christianity can ONLY be understood with a full understanding of the Old Testament. Your mind will be blown when you realize which two religions heavily study what Christians call the Old Testament.

Christians absolutely have a shameful legacy of persecuting the Jewish people and it is something they need to deal with. But literally every Christian building, university, park, etc… named St. Mary’s or St. Elizabeth’s are respectively named after two peasant Jewish women. That is but a very small example of the issue.

Again, I’m not getting at the substance of the matter, but to respond that being a Messianic Jew is incoherent (or crazy) (and I am not a MJ) is just a complete lack of understanding of what Christianity is and how it has shaped the world and the west in particular.

MJs are absolutely rare. It can be confusing. But it can be theologically coherent. And I absolutely understand why other Jewish groups distance themselves from MJs given what the central issue is. But it is not crazy to blend these two in particular.

DP from the one you're engaging with here -- I agree with you that we shouldn't call any religious groups crazy just on the basis of their beliefs. And of course Christianity has roots in Judaism. But I disagree with idea implicit in the phrase "other Jewish groups" that Messianic Jews are Jewish. They're Christians. The concept of blending these two religions may seem more coherent to a Christian than to a Jew.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not true. They feel extra persecuted because they’re Christians who claim they’re Jewish and they don’t understand why Jews find that obnoxious and offensive.

This sounds anti-semitic. Who gets to decide who is Jewish?

Well... Jewish law has a lot of discussion about this actually. Jews get to decide who is Jewish, and Christian missionary groups that try to offer "Messianic Judaism" as a culturally sensitive way to become Christian are, in fact, antisemitic.

The Jews they are able to convert to this everything bagel-scented Christianity had weak Jewish affiliations to begin with or have psychological problems.

They see themselves as Jewish, so if you agree that Jews get to decide, then they’ve decided they’re Jews, right? You repeatedly trying to just write them off as psychologically disturbed says more about you than about them.

They believe Jesus was the messiah, ergo, they are not Jewish. They’re Christians with Jewish trappings, and their insistence that they, not the rest of us, are the only ones who truly understand Judaism is what people especially don’t like about them.

Jews believe that a messiah will come. So believing a messiah has come is consistent. Jesus never claimed to be anything different from Jewish.

True, I sort of skipped over some of their even more problematic (from a Jewish theological standpoint) beliefs. They believe Jesus was the son of God, which Jews don't believe; they adhere to the New Testament, which we don't; they believe faith in Jesus — er, sorry, Yeshua — is the path to salvation, which we don't. And they believe actual Jews are somehow doing it all wrong. They're Christians with Jewish trappings, like I said before.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:A woman in my daughter's Girl Scout leadership has mentioned that she's a Messianic Jew but that her family hasn't been able to find a local congregation because anyone who starts one up gets sued by Jewish groups. Just wondering if this is true. What would the basis for the lawsuit be?

It's not true but the people who are attracted to Jews for Jesus (as they used to be called) have a screw loose. It's not hard to imagine they may believe in antisemitic conspiracy theories, too.

Found the dumber post.

All religions are a little crazy, but we understand that your ethnic culture has an effect on your mindset.

But mixing two religions (with belief, not merely ethnically blending in a marriage/family) is double crazy.

This comment shows a stunning lack of cultural literacy. With the possible exception of Luke all of the attributed authors of the New Testament are Jewish. And the four most important figures in the New Testament were Jewish: Jesus, Mary, Peter (first Pope) and Paul (the most important convert).

For better or worse, Christianity is Jewish in its origin DNA and it was founded, started and advanced by Jews (even if that what not exactly the intent). It can’t possibly be shocking to either side that some straddle the middle.

To be clear, I’m not getting into the substance of the matter. But calling someone who sits in the middle here “crazy” or “screws loose” is hugely disrespectful on a matter of faith.

This commn is ridiculous or bizarre or whatever term you prefer.

Christianity has spent 2000 years distinguishing itself from Judaism— there are millions of Jews who have died during those 2000 years for not being Christian.

As far as I am concerned, anyone can start their own religion but what’s offensive is claiming that they are Jews, and in fact more Jewish than Jews. Reminds me of those people who say “I didn’t like Indian food until I left out all the spices” .

You’re mixing issues and showing a stunning lack of cultural literacy. Hint: Christianity can ONLY be understood with a full understanding of the Old Testament. Your mind will be blown when you realize which two religions heavily study what Christians call the Old Testament.

Christians absolutely have a shameful legacy of persecuting the Jewish people and it is something they need to deal with. But literally every Christian building, university, park, etc… named St. Mary’s or St. Elizabeth’s are respectively named after two peasant Jewish women. That is but a very small example of the issue.

Again, I’m not getting at the substance of the matter, but to respond that being a Messianic Jew is incoherent (or crazy) (and I am not a MJ) is just a complete lack of understanding of what Christianity is and how it has shaped the world and the west in particular.

MJs are absolutely rare. It can be confusing. But it can be theologically coherent. And I absolutely understand why other Jewish groups distance themselves from MJs given what the central issue is. But it is not crazy to blend these two in particular.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A woman in my daughter's Girl Scout leadership has mentioned that she's a Messianic Jew but that her family hasn't been able to find a local congregation because anyone who starts one up gets sued by Jewish groups. Just wondering if this is true. What would the basis for the lawsuit be?

It's not true but the people who are attracted to Jews for Jesus (as they used to be called) have a screw loose. It's not hard to imagine they may believe in antisemitic conspiracy theories, too.

Found the dumber post.

All religions are a little crazy, but we understand that your ethnic culture has an effect on your mindset.

But mixing two religions (with belief, not merely ethnically blending in a marriage/family) is double crazy.

This comment shows a stunning lack of cultural literacy. With the possible exception of Luke all of the attributed authors of the New Testament are Jewish. And the four most important figures in the New Testament were Jewish: Jesus, Mary, Peter (first Pope) and Paul (the most important convert).

For better or worse, Christianity is Jewish in its origin DNA and it was founded, started and advanced by Jews (even if that what not exactly the intent). It can’t possibly be shocking to either side that some straddle the middle.

To be clear, I’m not getting into the substance of the matter. But calling someone who sits in the middle here “crazy” or “screws loose” is hugely disrespectful on a matter of faith.

This commn is ridiculous or bizarre or whatever term you prefer.

Christianity has spent 2000 years distinguishing itself from Judaism— there are millions of Jews who have died during those 2000 years for not being Christian.

As far as I am concerned, anyone can start their own religion but what’s offensive is claiming that they are Jews, and in fact more Jewish than Jews. Reminds me of those people who say “I didn’t like Indian food until I left out all the spices” .

Anonymous wrote:I thought Messianic Judaism was a front put up by evangelical Christians to convert Jews.

I would prefer either traditional Judaism or traditional Christianity over this purported middle road.

I don’t know anything about Jewish people who believe in Jesus. I do know that people choose what makes sense to them. I don’t think your preference is a factor for people when they make their choice.

What religion have you chosen, share so others can tell you what they prefer you to choose.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A woman in my daughter's Girl Scout leadership has mentioned that she's a Messianic Jew but that her family hasn't been able to find a local congregation because anyone who starts one up gets sued by Jewish groups. Just wondering if this is true. What would the basis for the lawsuit be?

It's not true but the people who are attracted to Jews for Jesus (as they used to be called) have a screw loose. It's not hard to imagine they may believe in antisemitic conspiracy theories, too.

Found the dumber post.

All religions are a little crazy, but we understand that your ethnic culture has an effect on your mindset.

But mixing two religions (with belief, not merely ethnically blending in a marriage/family) is double crazy.

This comment shows a stunning lack of cultural literacy. With the possible exception of Luke all of the attributed authors of the New Testament are Jewish. And the four most important figures in the New Testament were Jewish: Jesus, Mary, Peter (first Pope) and Paul (the most important convert).

For better or worse, Christianity is Jewish in its origin DNA and it was founded, started and advanced by Jews (even if that what not exactly the intent). It can’t possibly be shocking to either side that some straddle the middle.

To be clear, I’m not getting into the substance of the matter. But calling someone who sits in the middle here “crazy” or “screws loose” is hugely disrespectful on a matter of faith.

To be clear, I’m not getting into the substance of the matter. But calling someone who sits in the middle here “crazy” or “screws loose” is hugely disrespectful on a matter of faith.

+1

Crazy is a word that used to be used to describe mentally ill, mentally disabled, or mentally disordered people. Through no fault of their own, people are affected by conditions and diseases that cause mental illness. Mental illness is not chosen. Society sees physical illness and mental illness very differently. Physical illness is treated with care and compassion and no one blames the person who is physically ill for their suffering.

Mental illness is an unseen illness. There’s no broken leg, no heart attack, no blood test indicating blood values are off and antibiotics are needed. And the stigma? Being diagnosed with a mental illness is embarrassing and marks a person as someone who is permanently damaged, unstable, and is possibly dangerous. If you met someone and they identified themselves as having a diagnosed mental illness or disorder, you’d have a vastly different reaction vs if you met someone who told you they had high blood pressure or were undergoing chemo for cancer.

I am so dismayed when I see the word crazy used to describe anyone. It’s an outdated term that is used to insult people. I don’t think it has a place in our vocabulary anymore. If you want to describe someone who has a mental illness, disability, or disorder, don’t. If you don’t like what someone thinks, or their behavior, they are not crazy. You simply are choosing a word that is associated with mental illness and using it to insult and discredit someone you disagree with. Please stop using that word to describe anyone!

I thought Messianic Judaism was a front put up by evangelical Christians to convert Jews.

I would prefer either traditional Judaism or traditional Christianity over this purported middle road.