Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I listen to audiobooks, but I don’t consider it the same as reading. To me, reading, is using my eyes and decoding the words.
I don’t think listening to audiobooks is bad. I love it!

If listening to audiobooks is reading, then my infants know how to read! They listen to me read to them, but they are not reading. I love reading to them, and there is incredible value in that. But, IMO, listening is not the same as reading. But there is no shame in listening to books.

Then you think blind people don't read because their eyes don't decode words?

Of course they read. But, to my point, it's a different skill than reading print or listening to an audiobook. They are all valid ways of reading a book, but they require different training and a different skill set. My point was, let's not lose, as a society, the ability to read in long form.

Reading on a device is different from reading a hard copy document. Reading from a scroll is different from reading from a document in codex form.

What, exactly, are you afraid we as a society will lose?

This is a separate discussion from the "audiobook worth" discussion, but there have been several studies about about how the rise of social media, chat room boards, video reporting, etc. have affected the ability of adults (I assume the studies were done on English speakers/readers) to read and comprehend long form writing, like detailed news articles, novels, etc. It's a skill that you lose without practice. Does it matter? That's a different discussion.

At the same time, we have the "book twitter," "bookstagram," "booktube," and "booktok" people bringing so many back to reading. People going to midnight release parties for Iron Flame! Regardless of what you think of the writing of that book, when was the last time there were midnight release parties for a book? The special edition boxes are multiplying as people become interested in collecting books. People without local indie bookshops or book clubs are accessing events through online live chats.

That was 100% driven by social media.

Yes, media literacy is a concern, but don't discount how non-readers are becoming readers and reading is becoming more accessible because of social media.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I listen to audiobooks, but I don’t consider it the same as reading. To me, reading, is using my eyes and decoding the words.
I don’t think listening to audiobooks is bad. I love it!

If listening to audiobooks is reading, then my infants know how to read! They listen to me read to them, but they are not reading. I love reading to them, and there is incredible value in that. But, IMO, listening is not the same as reading. But there is no shame in listening to books.

Then you think blind people don't read because their eyes don't decode words?

Of course they read. But, to my point, it's a different skill than reading print or listening to an audiobook. They are all valid ways of reading a book, but they require different training and a different skill set. My point was, let's not lose, as a society, the ability to read in long form.

Reading on a device is different from reading a hard copy document. Reading from a scroll is different from reading from a document in codex form.

What, exactly, are you afraid we as a society will lose?

This is a separate discussion from the "audiobook worth" discussion, but there have been several studies about about how the rise of social media, chat room boards, video reporting, etc. have affected the ability of adults (I assume the studies were done on English speakers/readers) to read and comprehend long form writing, like detailed news articles, novels, etc. It's a skill that you lose without practice. Does it matter? That's a different discussion.

And there has also been a rise in podcasts, in which people cover topics for an hour+, way longer then even the longer NPR pieces.

The handwringing about various tragic declines is tiresome, especially because the people looking back nostalgically seem to have no understanding of history or context.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I listen to audiobooks, but I don’t consider it the same as reading. To me, reading, is using my eyes and decoding the words.
I don’t think listening to audiobooks is bad. I love it!

If listening to audiobooks is reading, then my infants know how to read! They listen to me read to them, but they are not reading. I love reading to them, and there is incredible value in that. But, IMO, listening is not the same as reading. But there is no shame in listening to books.

Then you think blind people don't read because their eyes don't decode words?

Of course they read. But, to my point, it's a different skill than reading print or listening to an audiobook. They are all valid ways of reading a book, but they require different training and a different skill set. My point was, let's not lose, as a society, the ability to read in long form.

Reading on a device is different from reading a hard copy document. Reading from a scroll is different from reading from a document in codex form.

What, exactly, are you afraid we as a society will lose?

This is a separate discussion from the "audiobook worth" discussion, but there have been several studies about about how the rise of social media, chat room boards, video reporting, etc. have affected the ability of adults (I assume the studies were done on English speakers/readers) to read and comprehend long form writing, like detailed news articles, novels, etc. It's a skill that you lose without practice. Does it matter? That's a different discussion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does anyone care what anyone else thinks about this topic? Really, why?

I would never count audiobooks in my reading counts but I could not possibly care less if others do.

There are some good reasons to care what others think, but the most important one is general literacy . If a parent or teacher doesn’t think audiobooks are reading, a lot of kids will just read less. That has negative consequences for components of literacy, like less practice in understanding complex sentences, not acquiring background knowledge and vocabulary, and overall less enjoyment in reading. Plus listening is actually an important component of literacy too. So, assuming we want to live in a literate society, it actually does matter what people think about this.

You just unlocked a core childhood memory! The children's section used to have rack of bags with books and cassettes in them. I loved those sets when I was learning to read.

We'd also read books as a class with the teacher reading aloud for a bit each day. The librarian did the same.

We were way more open minded about what reading was as kids.

I had those Frances books that came with...records! 45s! I loved listening to them and reading along in the book.

Thank you! Until today, I was half convinced that I imagined those.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh goodness.

Right?! 🤣 I somehow made it to "first, it's ableist". Sad story if this lady actually is a professor.

What gives OP, this is garbage.

WTF is wrong with you. She's correct. I think you are the garbage if you think ableism is to be laughed at. Get your head out of your rear end, PP.

That's not what I said. This professor seems like a spoof. If you can make it through her tik tok, all the power to you. I find her inability to compel tiresome.

Inability to compel? It’s like a minute video. Do you need someone to dance to keep your attention for that long?

If you stopped at “ableist,” you missed the part where she cites references and a study. She backs up the argument.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh goodness.

Right?! 🤣 I somehow made it to "first, it's ableist". Sad story if this lady actually is a professor.

What gives OP, this is garbage.

WTF is wrong with you. She's correct. I think you are the garbage if you think ableism is to be laughed at. Get your head out of your rear end, PP.

That's not what I said. This professor seems like a spoof. If you can make it through her tik tok, all the power to you. I find her inability to compel tiresome.

Wow I am a lifelong voracious reader of printed books and because of a long commute the last two years now a huge audiobook reader.

I wouldn’t bat an eye at counting audiobooks as reading! Yes, it’s not deciding but tbh that hasn’t really been a concern since about third grade so I’m not sure what the issue is. I genuinely wonder if people who a prickly about audiobooks feel some anxiety about their reading cred or something, and don’t want anyone else to have what they see as an unfair advantage. Weird.

Anonymous wrote:Lol. Is this our first fight here in the DCUM Book Club forum?

This debate has been pretty consistent. It’s a little tiresome that people have to put people down for how they read.

We also have a few people who put down those who read genre fiction or bestsellers. Like you’re only a REAL reader if you read literary fiction or classics.

Lol. Is this our first fight here in the DCUM Book Club forum?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, with all due respect, it sounds like you just want to stir the pot and get everyone debating?

I’m not sure why you care so much what other people think. If you enjoy audiobooks then listen to them. If some of us don’t include audiobooks as “reading books,” (especially when we’re taking stock of how many books we read over the course of a year) why does that bother you so much? Time to grow thicker skin!

This is part of an ongoing debate that people have, which is why an english professor weighed in in the first place. It's not like OP is just making the argument for the sake of drama. If you aren't one to tell someone else that audiobooks don't count then you don't need to feel called out. You're good!

Actually, that’s exactly what OP is doing. Lol

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does anyone care what anyone else thinks about this topic? Really, why?

I would never count audiobooks in my reading counts but I could not possibly care less if others do.

There are some good reasons to care what others think, but the most important one is general literacy . If a parent or teacher doesn’t think audiobooks are reading, a lot of kids will just read less. That has negative consequences for components of literacy, like less practice in understanding complex sentences, not acquiring background knowledge and vocabulary, and overall less enjoyment in reading. Plus listening is actually an important component of literacy too. So, assuming we want to live in a literate society, it actually does matter what people think about this.

You just unlocked a core childhood memory! The children's section used to have rack of bags with books and cassettes in them. I loved those sets when I was learning to read.

We'd also read books as a class with the teacher reading aloud for a bit each day. The librarian did the same.

We were way more open minded about what reading was as kids.

I had those Frances books that came with...records! 45s! I loved listening to them and reading along in the book.

Oh my gosh, yes! There'd be a little beep or chime to turn the page. Ahhhh.

Narrated by the woman who played the mom in Mary Poppins!

I found them. Omg.

https://m.soundcloud.com/hannah-adams-burque/sets/frances

Dyslexic DC would have been up a creek if they weren’t able to listen to books in Learning Ally as they were struggling to decode the words.

Those books were read.

Anonymous wrote:OP, with all due respect, it sounds like you just want to stir the pot and get everyone debating?

I’m not sure why you care so much what other people think. If you enjoy audiobooks then listen to them. If some of us don’t include audiobooks as “reading books,” (especially when we’re taking stock of how many books we read over the course of a year) why does that bother you so much? Time to grow thicker skin!

This is part of an ongoing debate that people have, which is why an english professor weighed in in the first place. It's not like OP is just making the argument for the sake of drama. If you aren't one to tell someone else that audiobooks don't count then you don't need to feel called out. You're good!

OP, with all due respect, it sounds like you just want to stir the pot and get everyone debating?

I’m not sure why you care so much what other people think. If you enjoy audiobooks then listen to them. If some of us don’t include audiobooks as “reading books,” (especially when we’re taking stock of how many books we read over the course of a year) why does that bother you so much? Time to grow thicker skin!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I listen to audiobooks, but I don’t consider it the same as reading. To me, reading, is using my eyes and decoding the words.
I don’t think listening to audiobooks is bad. I love it!

If listening to audiobooks is reading, then my infants know how to read! They listen to me read to them, but they are not reading. I love reading to them, and there is incredible value in that. But, IMO, listening is not the same as reading. But there is no shame in listening to books.

Then you think blind people don't read because their eyes don't decode words?

Of course they read. But, to my point, it's a different skill than reading print or listening to an audiobook. They are all valid ways of reading a book, but they require different training and a different skill set. My point was, let's not lose, as a society, the ability to read in long form.

Reading on a device is different from reading a hard copy document. Reading from a scroll is different from reading from a document in codex form.

What, exactly, are you afraid we as a society will lose?