Anonymous wrote:Why do high schools offer so much college math? It seems like it hurts almost all of their students.

There are plenty of kids who are 'fluent' in math - they just speak it. Offering those higher levels put them at a learning level where they can thrive. Kids who love math can excel and stand out when applying for math-intensive majors like engineering, CS, science-based, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do high schools offer so much college math? It seems like it hurts almost all of their students.

Why does it "hurt their students"? My one kid breezed thru AP Calc AB (junior) and took BC senior year. First time math was even remotely difficult (not a 99%+) was BC. They could have gone 3 years advanced in math, except we moved the year that transition would occur and we felt it was important for social and academic adjustment to keep them "2 years ahead" in math.
Same kid breezed thru Calc 3&4 in college freshman year. Freeing up 2 extra Classes they can take towards their minor in CS to go along with their ENg major. So now they can get a Eng major and CS minor, study abroad for a semester and graduate in 4 years.

For them, they would have been bored in regular level math---they were basically bored with the 2 year ahead. Why would you hold them back?

As a STEM major, it makes a lot more sense to take those higher level math classes in college when you're also taking the corresponding engineering or science classes. The classes then reinforce each other and the potential applications of the math in real life are much clearer, enriching the content.

(It's also not helpful rush foundational skills and then have gaps when you get to college. It's really not a race.)

If a kid is bored in high school, I wouldn't accelerate past calculus, but would look for open ended problem solving opportunities that require learning how to think. That's so much more enriching than just pounding more pre-gurgitated math from a book.

If math is so easy for your kid, they can always just overload and take an extra course or two during a college semester--I found my math classes easy so I'd typically enroll in 21 or 22 credits per semester, leaving lots of time for extra minors or double majors. It was never a problem that I hadn't taken those classes sooner.

My kid did not go beyond BC, and did well in Calc 3/4, so there were no "obvious gaps". In reality, thru Calc 4 is required BEFORE you can take many of the engineering courses. So it puts my kid ahead and able to take more advanced courses sooner.
I definately support not rushing kids ahead (hence why my kid didn't go 3 years ahead). My kid was always one of the kids who "could think", even back in 1st/2nd grade. They were slow at "math facts" that are regurgitated/memorized because they are a perfectionist. Their Math teacher told me "if your kid does not pass the timed test to get into GT math, let me know because they belong in GT math because of how they problem solve. We will write a nomination letter to ensure you get into GT Math". Concepts, they got those and could really think outside the box from a young age. Hence why 2 grades ahead in math was perfect for them.

However, I agree that kids should NOT be pushed ahead if not ready. Those kids who do not get the concepts, but can do their Math Fact Tests well simply because it's been drilled into them with Kumon and the likes, would be better served being on grade level or only 1 grade ahead and encouraging them to problem solve.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Highest they can do at their HS.

^ This aim for the highest track available and if your HS offers other engineering courses take those as well.

WRONG. All of LCPS offers up to Multivariable Calc. My son took it his junior year and on average there are 15-20 kids COUNTY WIDE who take it each year. I can promise you that VT engineering is full of LCPS kids who never took Calc 3. BC calc is more than sufficient in the NoVA area.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which high school math track is the admissions office looking for?

Insider here. It used to be practically all students came in having Calculus I completed and few even more.
But standards have fallen. Now we have up to 40% of incoming students place not ready for even taking Calculus I, meaning they need remedial precalculus.
A working group has been formed to examine this because it seriously endangers 4 year graduation rates.

So my advice would be: if you want to be successful, take Calculus I and know the material.
But don't assume your child will be rejected if they don't. They can, perhaps via secondary admission factors, join the ranks of the math unready students now being admitted.

Here it is, buried in the provost announcements: https://www.provost.vt.edu/provost-weekly-updates/weekly-october-23-27-2023.html

There is zero in your link that even alludes to your “40%” claim. Nice try, though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which high school math track is the admissions office looking for?

Insider here. It used to be practically all students came in having Calculus I completed and few even more.
But standards have fallen. Now we have up to 40% of incoming students place not ready for even taking Calculus I, meaning they need remedial precalculus.
A working group has been formed to examine this because it seriously endangers 4 year graduation rates.

So my advice would be: if you want to be successful, take Calculus I and know the material.
But don't assume your child will be rejected if they don't. They can, perhaps via secondary admission factors, join the ranks of the math unready students now being admitted.

Oh, it’s you again. Trying your level best to say that URM/1st Gen students “aren’t qualified.” There is nothing at all backs up your absurd fake claim, bolded. You’re simply still incredibly bitter that your kid wasn’t accepted. Please grow up and find something else to obsess over.
NP

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which high school math track is the admissions office looking for?

Insider here. It used to be practically all students came in having Calculus I completed and few even more.
But standards have fallen. Now we have up to 40% of incoming students place not ready for even taking Calculus I, meaning they need remedial precalculus.
A working group has been formed to examine this because it seriously endangers 4 year graduation rates.

So my advice would be: if you want to be successful, take Calculus I and know the material.
But don't assume your child will be rejected if they don't. They can, perhaps via secondary admission factors, join the ranks of the math unready students now being admitted.

Here it is, buried in the provost announcements: https://www.provost.vt.edu/provost-weekly-updates/weekly-october-23-27-2023.html

Anonymous wrote:Which high school math track is the admissions office looking for?

Insider here. It used to be practically all students came in having Calculus I completed and few even more.
But standards have fallen. Now we have up to 40% of incoming students place not ready for even taking Calculus I, meaning they need remedial precalculus.
A working group has been formed to examine this because it seriously endangers 4 year graduation rates.

So my advice would be: if you want to be successful, take Calculus I and know the material.
But don't assume your child will be rejected if they don't. They can, perhaps via secondary admission factors, join the ranks of the math unready students now being admitted.

I think to be considered for most engineering programs, applicants will need Calculus BC at minimum and preferably higher classes if available. Engineering is an extremely competitive major. There might be 4000 colleges in America but there are fewer than 400 engineering programs. And the good ones are exceptionally hard to get into. The math classes are going to be the first thing colleges look at

If the high school doesn't offer Calculus BC, the student really does need to take the highest level math classes that are available at the school. They'll be at a big disadvantage if they've never taken calculus however. Engineering is a difficult major.

I have a kid doing it now. Not at Va Tech. He graduated high school last year. And he took Multivariable Calculus his senior year, after doing Calculus BC junior year. And he's grinding as a freshman majoring in mechanical engineering. It's a lot of work. And of course everyone is super bright and exams are graded on a curve. It's not for the feint-hearted.

Anonymous wrote:Why do high schools offer so much college math? It seems like it hurts almost all of their students.

lolol! how does it hurt kids? my son took calc 3 in 11th grade and then had to drive himself to GMU i’his senior year to take linear Algebra. he goes to a very well know competitive “tech” school and has managed to triple mJoe in a math discipline, physics and computer science. only reason he’s been able to do this is how many credits he brought in from DE and summer math classes at GMU when he was in high school.

how did this hurt him? he had an incredible internship last summer, along with a permanent job offer, but he’s not sure if that job will give him the flexibility he needs to continue to market and sell his own product.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do high schools offer so much college math? It seems like it hurts almost all of their students.

Why does it "hurt their students"? My one kid breezed thru AP Calc AB (junior) and took BC senior year. First time math was even remotely difficult (not a 99%+) was BC. They could have gone 3 years advanced in math, except we moved the year that transition would occur and we felt it was important for social and academic adjustment to keep them "2 years ahead" in math.
Same kid breezed thru Calc 3&4 in college freshman year. Freeing up 2 extra Classes they can take towards their minor in CS to go along with their ENg major. So now they can get a Eng major and CS minor, study abroad for a semester and graduate in 4 years.

For them, they would have been bored in regular level math---they were basically bored with the 2 year ahead. Why would you hold them back?

As a STEM major, it makes a lot more sense to take those higher level math classes in college when you're also taking the corresponding engineering or science classes. The classes then reinforce each other and the potential applications of the math in real life are much clearer, enriching the content.

(It's also not helpful rush foundational skills and then have gaps when you get to college. It's really not a race.)

If a kid is bored in high school, I wouldn't accelerate past calculus, but would look for open ended problem solving opportunities that require learning how to think. That's so much more enriching than just pounding more pre-gurgitated math from a book.

If math is so easy for your kid, they can always just overload and take an extra course or two during a college semester--I found my math classes easy so I'd typically enroll in 21 or 22 credits per semester, leaving lots of time for extra minors or double majors. It was never a problem that I hadn't taken those classes sooner.

Why did you pound more pre-gurgitated classes from a book?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do high schools offer so much college math? It seems like it hurts almost all of their students.

Why does it "hurt their students"? My one kid breezed thru AP Calc AB (junior) and took BC senior year. First time math was even remotely difficult (not a 99%+) was BC. They could have gone 3 years advanced in math, except we moved the year that transition would occur and we felt it was important for social and academic adjustment to keep them "2 years ahead" in math.
Same kid breezed thru Calc 3&4 in college freshman year. Freeing up 2 extra Classes they can take towards their minor in CS to go along with their ENg major. So now they can get a Eng major and CS minor, study abroad for a semester and graduate in 4 years.

For them, they would have been bored in regular level math---they were basically bored with the 2 year ahead. Why would you hold them back?

As a STEM major, it makes a lot more sense to take those higher level math classes in college when you're also taking the corresponding engineering or science classes. The classes then reinforce each other and the potential applications of the math in real life are much clearer, enriching the content.

(It's also not helpful rush foundational skills and then have gaps when you get to college. It's really not a race.)

If a kid is bored in high school, I wouldn't accelerate past calculus, but would look for open ended problem solving opportunities that require learning how to think. That's so much more enriching than just pounding more pre-gurgitated math from a book.

If math is so easy for your kid, they can always just overload and take an extra course or two during a college semester--I found my math classes easy so I'd typically enroll in 21 or 22 credits per semester, leaving lots of time for extra minors or double majors. It was never a problem that I hadn't taken those classes sooner.