Therapy just teaches you how to cope with it in the best way possible.

I have learned to accept that I cannot trust new people or people from my past that I haven’t kept in touch with.

I have learned to enjoy my own company and set goals for myself that are realistic and something I can focus my energy on every day.

But the pain from loss and abuse is just something you learn to live with and accept.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are some of the things narcissistic mothers say and do?

when you’re a 9 year old piano player learning the Happy Farmer she pushes you off the piano bench and plays a Chopin’s Polonaise.

Thank you for this one example. I read so many posts from women who hate their mothers, but never any examples of what it is exactly, their mothers did to them. I would implore everybody to be very cautious of therapists. To be honest, the two most self-centered, insecure women I have known in my adult life felt rudderless as empty nesters and became therapists. They charge and arm and a leg, but I simply cannot imagine ever getting becoming a healthier person just by sitting down with the likes of them. My DD tried therapy a few times for her anxiety in high school and could not believe how strange the therapists she tried all were. I know this is so unsympathetic, but barring physical and sexual abuse, and real neglect, should having a mother who is basically just not that nice really ruin your life?

One of the psychological research studies I remember from my days studying psych was the baby monkey study, where they took baby monkeys from their mothers and gave them the choice of a wire monkey model with a bottle full of food and a terry cloth covered monkey model with no food on offer. The baby monkeys chose more time cuddling with the cloth covered monkey over being fed by the wire monkey.

Similarly there is abundant evidence of the deep psychological harm done to babies in orphanages in eastern block countries where food and basic care like diaper changing was provided, but almost no human contact otherwise.

Food, clothing, shelter and legally required education are the absolute minimum standards of parenting and no parent should get any praise for providing it. Kids don’t ask to be born. Emotional neglect of children is despicable enough, but the kind of parents who intentionally inflict emotional distress on developing children cause more harm in the aggregate to our society than a whole host of petty criminals.

I consider cruel parents on an equal footing with murderers, rapists, and child molesters - yes I mean that and as a former prosecutor and a child survivor of all the kinds of abuse I have seen and know firsthand the damage.

It crushes a child’s spirit every bit as much being cruelly bullied systematically throughout childhood by a parent as by being molested by the neighbor. I’ve had both happen to me and I know others who have as well and I can assure you that for most folks, it’s the cruelty of their parents that weighs on their hearts every moment of every day of their lives.

Anonymous wrote:I had a narc sister and an enabling mother and it permanently affected my life, trajectory, choice of workplaces, career and relationships.

I have a narc mother and sister. The affect on my life trajectory and choice has been profound. I struggle with the resentment even though I have been working for years to heal even though I have built a decent enough life for myself. I am married with a wonderful child, yet I still feel very alone and unloved in many ways. Not having unconditional love from a mother is something I will never truly heal from. Yes, I have been in therapy off and on for 20 years. I've learned to live with the pain and grief, but it never goes away completely.

Don’t know why you get so much attention from boys, your not that pretty. Don’t marry that guy cause your children will be unhappy about their looks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are some of the things narcissistic mothers say and do?

when you’re a 9 year old piano player learning the Happy Farmer she pushes you off the piano bench and plays a Chopin’s Polonaise.

Thank you for this one example. I read so many posts from women who hate their mothers, but never any examples of what it is exactly, their mothers did to them. I would implore everybody to be very cautious of therapists. To be honest, the two most self-centered, insecure women I have known in my adult life felt rudderless as empty nesters and became therapists. They charge and arm and a leg, but I simply cannot imagine ever getting becoming a healthier person just by sitting down with the likes of them. My DD tried therapy a few times for her anxiety in high school and could not believe how strange the therapists she tried all were. I know this is so unsympathetic, but barring physical and sexual abuse, and real neglect, should having a mother who is basically just not that nice really ruin your life?

Fair question and here is my answer. It’s not that she is just “not that nice.” It’s that, as a young child, every accomplishment, heartbreak, joy, or other emotion is mocked, downplayed, or ignored. As an adult I’ve had to overcome many negative coping strategies because it was hammered into me as a child that my feelings were not important - that I was not important. Emotional neglect like that reprograms your brain, and it takes a lot of work to get mentally healthy again.

For my teen and young adult life I allowed people to treat me like garbage because I thought I WAS garbage. Because if my own MOM treated me like that, then certainly no one else would think better of me. You see?

I can feel your pain, I am struggling with this more than ever in my mid 50's. My mother is deteriorating with dementia, and my sister and I are the ones who are dealing with it all. I now understand the root of my feelings of worthlessness and self inflicted harm. I am still struggling, even though I am in therapy

I should have cut off contact years ago. Instead I stayed and offered her a place in my life. It is all good as long as she is the center of attention. I was so desperate for any sense of normalcy for my children to have a grandparent, I pushed my feelings aside. I now have to deal with her narcissism and the memories of how it made me feel almost daily.

Sending love your way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are some of the things narcissistic mothers say and do?

when you’re a 9 year old piano player learning the Happy Farmer she pushes you off the piano bench and plays a Chopin’s Polonaise.

Thank you for this one example. I read so many posts from women who hate their mothers, but never any examples of what it is exactly, their mothers did to them. I would implore everybody to be very cautious of therapists. To be honest, the two most self-centered, insecure women I have known in my adult life felt rudderless as empty nesters and became therapists. They charge and arm and a leg, but I simply cannot imagine ever getting becoming a healthier person just by sitting down with the likes of them. My DD tried therapy a few times for her anxiety in high school and could not believe how strange the therapists she tried all were. I know this is so unsympathetic, but barring physical and sexual abuse, and real neglect, should having a mother who is basically just not that nice really ruin your life?

I’m the PP with the piano example. How in the world did you know my mother is a psychotherapist?😂 She is! What you said is spot on. Thank you so much. The beauty of her being a psychotherapist for her was anything that was disagreeable to her in other people meant they had some psychiatric issue- you were paranoid, had a princess complex, only saw things in black and white, etc. I never understood why she wanted to go into a helping profession but then I understood she feasted on the stories of bad marriages and loved to gossip about other people’s problems. I mean there can’t be anything mentally wrong with her, she has prestigious credentials, in psychiatry. And if you were my school friend visiting me you couldn’t call her Mrs. , it was Dr. .

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are some of the things narcissistic mothers say and do?

when you’re a 9 year old piano player learning the Happy Farmer she pushes you off the piano bench and plays a Chopin’s Polonaise.

Thank you for this one example. I read so many posts from women who hate their mothers, but never any examples of what it is exactly, their mothers did to them. I would implore everybody to be very cautious of therapists. To be honest, the two most self-centered, insecure women I have known in my adult life felt rudderless as empty nesters and became therapists. They charge and arm and a leg, but I simply cannot imagine ever getting becoming a healthier person just by sitting down with the likes of them. My DD tried therapy a few times for her anxiety in high school and could not believe how strange the therapists she tried all were. I know this is so unsympathetic, but barring physical and sexual abuse, and real neglect, should having a mother who is basically just not that nice really ruin your life?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are some of the things narcissistic mothers say and do?

When you graduate from a top 10 law school and work hard for years to move up the ranks as a government lawyer in a senior leadership position doing work that is meaningful to you, she responds to your promotion with “So, all that money and time and you’re still just some faceless bureaucrat.”

I felt that one.

I was an accomplished athlete in high school. I qualified for a national meet my junior year, but got the flu in the winter of senior year. I hadn’t recovered before a regional competition that ended up being my last meet. My mom didn’t even show up, but when I told her I didn’t win and didn’t re-qualify for nationals she said “all that time and money and you still lost.” That was over 30 years ago and I can still hear her say it. She said it in the presence of my dad, and it is the one time I can remember him defending me.

She also made a scene at my rehearsal dinner. I could go on.

When she looks at you before your wedding day and asks if your dress is still going to fit.

Anonymous wrote:What are some of the things narcissistic mothers say and do?

When you graduate from a top 10 law school and work hard for years to move up the ranks as a government lawyer in a senior leadership position doing work that is meaningful to you, she responds to your promotion with “So, all that money and time and you’re still just some faceless bureaucrat.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are some of the things narcissistic mothers say and do?

She writes on the second page of the pad of paper by the telephone a long “fictional” story about someone with a first initial that’s the same as yours and it describes in detail explicit criticisms of your awkwardly styled hair and embarrassing outfit that you wore to your first middle school dance. Except that she never taught you to do your hair and buys all of your clothing.

Narcissistic mothers see their children as extensions of themselves and competition at the same time, so you’re constantly caught bring both a projection of their lost dreams for themselves and their self-loathing.

That is a great explainer.

Anonymous wrote:What are some of the things narcissistic mothers say and do?

She writes on the second page of the pad of paper by the telephone a long “fictional” story about someone with a first initial that’s the same as yours and it describes in detail explicit criticisms of your awkwardly styled hair and embarrassing outfit that you wore to your first middle school dance. Except that she never taught you to do your hair and buys all of your clothing.

Narcissistic mothers see their children as extensions of themselves and competition at the same time, so you’re constantly caught bring both a projection of their lost dreams for themselves and their self-loathing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are some of the things narcissistic mothers say and do?

when you’re a 9 year old piano player learning the Happy Farmer she pushes you off the piano bench and plays a Chopin’s Polonaise.

When you’re a really little kid coloring in your coloring book and you beg your mom to color with you and then you are so thrilled by her pretty coloring and you ask her mommy why can’t I color like that? And instead of explaining that you’re little and your motor skills are refined yet, she says, I don’t know maybe you’re just not that smart?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just posting in support, OP. What has helped me is that, as we have become adults, my much younger sister and I have started talking about it. Hearing her experience was the same as mine (I was out of the house for much of her childhood) makes me realize that I'm not the crazy one - I really did go through the gaslighting and the manipulation.

Relationships have been hard, and I did not choose men well (until I totally lucked upon my DH later in life. I definitely wouldn't have married him when I was less mature, however.

I've stopped seeking emotional support from my mother, and as a result we have a polite relationship now. But we aren't close at all. She has little idea of what is going on in my life, and no interest in learning about it.

I also found that seeking and cultivating relationships with other women is important. My closest female friendships fill a gap that my mother never did.

How was your sister with relationships? I ask bc me and my sibling grew up as you describe. However, my older sister chose horrible men and did not grow up at all. I am the opposite. I get why she is the way she is, but am also angry and resentful that I had to deal with the same stuff but ultimately made better choices while she still continues to blame my mom while also using her for help.

Different poster here replying, just to say that you might want to give your sister grace. Every child is different, every brain is different so some kids are more damaged by the same abuse that other kids are less effected by. It isn’t a sign of a lesser character, but of a more highly sensitive less resilient personality. She didn’t choose it.